Time to join a Union ?

Public1

Im a public sector worker , in a busy IT Dept and am beginning to wonder if it is time to join a union . I hate everything unions stand for and noone in my dept is a member , but my fear is reading some of the comments that when Fine Gael get into power , there will eventually be compulsory redundancies and I think the easy targets will be the non-unionised which ironically are usually the people who work hardest . My Dept lost 2 good people during the last voluntary redundancy and myself and my colleagues pick up the pieces . We work on average 5 hours overtime a week (unpaid) and lunch is often at the desk. I worked in the Private Sector up until 7 years ago and took a pay cut to work in the Public due to the excellent conditions. I see daily the wastage in the Public Sector and the overtime paid to certain sectors who are seen as "essential" (union protected) and am beginning to think it may be better to get that level of protection. At the same time I enjoy my job and the challenges and would like to stay so I am interested in peoples opinions of what may happen to people in my prediciment .Will we be the easiest to get rid and make up the headlines for Fine Gael in their first few years ?

ninty9er

Unions are absolutely useless to anyone who is not of use to the union leadership and their ulterior motives.

Your post leads me to believe that you don't fall into that category, so you will ultimately be disappointed by a union.

FWIW if FG do make posts in your department redundant, then I would be more focussed on making myself indispensable if I were you than making irrelevant noises about how you feel you are indispensable.

deise blue

Yes , purely from a sense of self protection it's time to join a Union.

In a time of flux involving PS reform , redeployment and voluntary redundancies ( & possibly compulsory redundancies ) & a new Government your best protection is collective union representation .

Even the most vehement trade union opponents will concede that such unions are extremely capable and well organised when it comes to protecting the terms & conditions of their members.

I would gladly pay the required subs for such peace of mind.

dan_d

For your own peace of mind, and to help you with possible negotiations in the future, then maybe you should.

The thing is though, don't put absolute faith in your union. Over the last decade, unions have been allowed to have far too much power by the Government.While they absolutely have their place, I think some people in this country (and I apply this across private and public sectors) have this blind faith that "the union" will sort all their problems, save their jobs and keep their wage conditions. Unfortunately, it is now being driven home that a union can do so much, but after a certain point, they are powerless. In the case of the unions for the public sector, I've no doubt they'll do their best, but a lot of decisions are simply out of their hands and beyond their power to prevent.

I suppose what it comes down to for me is to advise you to join a union to maximise any negotiations there might be for redundancies etc, should you lose your job....as opposed to telling you to join a union because they will prevent you from losing your job.

RichardAnd

Sadly, you are quite possibly correct that compulsary redundancies could fall upon the easy targets; the non union staff. A friend of mine in the PS recently joined a union after years of having nothing to do with them for much the same reason as you mention.

If I were you, I'd join.

P. Breathnach

RichardAnd wrote: »

Sadly, you are quite possibly correct that compulsary redundancies could fall upon the easy targets; the non union staff....

Not a snowball's chance: the law on unfair selection for redundancy is fairly strong.

RichardAnd

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Not a snowball's chance: the law on unfair selection for redundancy is fairly strong.

It may be but if in the OPs shoes, I wouldn't take the risk. It's not a big deal to be in a union so perhaps it's best to keep the bases covered?

deise blue

RichardAnd wrote: »

It may be but if in the OPs shoes, I wouldn't take the risk. It's not a big deal to be in a union so perhaps it's best to keep the bases covered?

I would agree.

In the case of any dispute I would much prefer to be represented by a union rather than seek a resolution to any such dispute as an individual.

20Cent

You are much better off in a Union. There are cases happening currently in the PS where contracts are not being honoured. If you find yourself in that situation and you are not in a union you would have to fight that on your own. At least in a Union you will have support and help.

P. Breathnach

RichardAnd wrote: »

It may be but if in the OPs shoes, I wouldn't take the risk. It's not a big deal to be in a union so perhaps it's best to keep the bases covered?

I do agree that in many situations it is better to be in a union than not. I was simply picking up one one argument that I thought invalid.

mikemac

At least get a rep in and let them speak and hand out their information.
Won't be an issue, they'll be happy to come over if they reckon they can recruit new members

Can't hurt to listen, you and your department can decide after that

RichardAnd

20Cent wrote: »

You are much better off in a Union. There are cases happening currently in the PS where contracts are not being honoured. If you find yourself in that situation and you are not in a union you would have to fight that on your own. At least in a Union you will have support and help.

A good point. For all the bad vibes unions have attracted, they do have some positive aspects. One of these is that they often do prevent employers from taking advantage of workers unfairly.

sensibleken

Definetely a good idea. Fine Gaels policies regarding employment laws and workers rights are something to worry about. Whatever people think about unions me as a worker and non union member would be very worse off without them.

Hayte

An individual teacher doesn't have political power.

A random mass of individual teachers doesn't have political power either.

A union of teachers does have some political power because of their collective ability to deny power to another organisation (i.e. through collective strike action which destroys a Government's ability to sell itself on education).

Unions, like governments and large corporate entities can still spend money in the wrong ways and be beholden to vested and private interests. Ultimately however, it was through labour movements and unionization that things such medical care safety nets were established (i.e. NHS in the UK), the two day weekend and a whole slew of things we take for granted because we longer need to show a union card to benefit from them. The dismantling of unions is a bad thing because it denies political power to groups of citizens whose interests are averse to those of government and big business.

But the biggest problem is more systemic than anything else. Anyone who finds themselves in a position where they wield great wealth and political power, invariably becomes corrupted by it. I don't feel it is something you can vote your way out of anymore because of the revolving door at the top, politically and monetarily speaking.

Real change involves building something that lasts, from the bottom up. The Tunisian and pan Arabic revolutions are an indication of how bottom up change can happen as opposed to top down which never seems to change anything. At this point it is too early to say whether it will have permanence. Also, the kind of suffering that citizens have to endure before they can mobilize in unity and sufficient numbers is quite high. The spark for the Tunisian revolution was Mohamed Bouazizi, the fruit vendor who gave his own life in protest at the systematic corruption at all levels of government, but in particular at the municipal level, where inspectors confiscated his goods, humiliated and beat him.

muddled1

It depends on the union. I am a PS worker, was in a union previously and dropped out. When I needed assistance on a matter they were of no help at all. I found them interested only in their own "bigger picture". I ended up fighting my cause myself. I won't give that particular union a penny.

Public1

Thanks for all the advice . After talking to some colleagues , we are going to wait and see how things go with the new (fg) government .
General consensus is that they'll go for cuts to force people out. I just hope they try to weed out the wasters and keep those who are willing to work and work hard rather than cut everyone , but I'm not hopeful

btard

Public1 wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice . After talking to some colleagues , we are going to wait and see how things go with the new (fg) government .
General consensus is that they'll go for cuts to force people out. I just hope they try to weed out the wasters and keep those who are willing to work and work hard rather than cut everyone , but I'm not hopeful

You say you "took a pay cut to work in the Public sector due to the excellent conditions." Where exactly do you think those excellent conditions that you have being enjoying came from. The excellent conditions fairy ? It was the members of those Unions which you hate who fought for them over the years. There's no such thing as a free lunch, even if you do have to eat it at your desk.

Don't worry about compulsary redundancies. It won't happen. However, if you join the Union you won't have to work overtime without pay and you will be able to have your lunch like a normal human being.

RichardAnd

I think this thread illustrates how unions are, at their core, organisations that were created to fairness into the work place. Though modern PS unions (and many others) are corrupt, this is a fault of union members and leaders and not of the unions themselves.

Though I'm not of a left wing leaning, fair treatment for workers is something I believe in. One should never dismiss unions as lazy socialists because, as the above poster points out, it is because of unions we enjoy decent working conditions today. In these times, where labour is cheap (and in some cases, free) it's more important than ever that workers watch their backs.

Hmm, I sound like a real working man there

keithclancy

Unions suck.

Person A works his arse off
Person B does feck all

Person A and B get the same payrise within agreed payscales with the union.

BeeDI

Public1 wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice . After talking to some colleagues , we are going to wait and see how things go with the new (fg) government .
General consensus is that they'll go for cuts to force people out. I just hope they try to weed out the wasters and keep those who are willing to work and work hard rather than cut everyone , but I'm not hopeful

I'm going to vote FG, simply because they have the least damaging economic policy on paper.

However, I am realistic enough to realise, that they will not deliver on practically any of their PS reforms. They will come up against the "system", and just fold their cards within the first year:pac:

Watch Dr. James O Reilly, turn into a zombie, after one year of pissing against the HES and the vested interests in health system.

Watch, Michael Noonan, fall to pieces as the enormity of the black hole stares him in the face, and Mrs. Merkel .......... pulls the strings.

Watch ............. the FG implosion in slow to medium fast motion.