Anyone else built a Timber Frame House? Help and advice needed.

elliebelle

I’m a long time lurker of the boards, and have found them to be a great source of information. So I know there’s a wealth of knowledge and experience on here and am hoping for some guidance from other members. We’re hoping to commence construction on our new home, 2,500 sq ft story and a half, in the coming months. We've pretty much decided that we want to go down the timber frame route, and self build the rest, by subbing out the various trades. We've received quotes from 5 timber frame companies which all very greatly, and are discovering how little we really know about the whole process. Our aim is to build as warm and energy efficient a home as possible, within the budget that we have to spend. Receiving the various quotes for the timber frame has left us more confused than ever.

We need to decide between open and closed frame. There's a significant cost difference between the two, but would the extras that are included in the closed frame mean that by the time we have done all the extra work to the open frame system, installed the insulation etc, the price differential might not be so much? Can we achieve the same levels of airtightness and insulation provided by the closed panel system if we use the much cheaper open panel system and do the work ourselves? How difficult is it to complete a timber frame self build once the frame is up?
Would love to hear from anyone who has built using either system or opinions on the advantages/disadvantages of one system over the other.

Could anyone provide me with a basic guideline as to how much extra needs to spent to finish the house once you've paid for the timber frame kit to be erected? I know its like asking how long is a piece of string and depends greatly on finishes etc, but even a ballpark figure for things like the block work, roofing, plumbing, electric, 2nd fix carpentry etc would be great.

Our big issue is, we know how much we have to spend, and before we can make a decision on which TF co to go with, or which package, we need to know that say for e.g. our TF costs us 50k, the 120k that we have left will be enough to complete the house (have just used these figures as examples).

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on building issues, I'm on a very steep learning curve here!

Mike2006

Ellie,

Here is my experience of a timberframe selfbuild.

http://limerickbuild2009.blogspot.com/2009/10/introduction-oct-2009.html

Mike.

Splinter Cell

PM sent.

gman2k

If you have 170k to build a house, then I would (properly) build a block house.
There is no advantage either in cost or time for a self builder building a TF house.
A well designed and built block built house will preform just as well in regards to insulation as a TF.
I know all this because I built a timber frame myself.
If you need to chat anymore, please feel free to PM.

LoTwan

I suggest you get in touch with a Quantity Surveyor and get a BoQ done for the build to see where you stand. 170k is not much to build 2500sq ft house, either with timberframe or block.

Splinter Cell

The op stated that 170K is an example, I hope she means that! With regards to a block build, well designed yes, well built - good luck with that. There is more to a good house than just insulation - air tightness, thermal bridging, air quality etc. I would suggest that it is easier for the regular punter to get these right with TF, imo.

elliebelle

Thanks to all for the replies. Yes, I only used the figure of 170k as an example, we do have a bit more than that to spend (just a bit though!). What I was trying to get at really was, what percentage of the overall budget is normally spent on the TF part? I think if we knew that we could judge better how the quotes that we're getting will stack up, particularly when they vary so wildly. And you're right splinter cell, one of the main reasons we're considering TF is because we hope that it will be easier to get all those elements you mentioned right, a little easier than a self build block house at least. We have considered getting a QS on board, anyone know what you could normally expect to pay for this?

gman2k

Splinter Cell wrote: »

There is more to a good house than just insulation - air tightness, thermal bridging, air quality etc. I would suggest that it is easier for the regular punter to get these right with TF, imo.

I disagree Splinter Cell.
After building a timber frame house myself I would argue that airtightness is easier to achieve in a block house.
Thermal bridging is down to correct detailing, and a TF would have no major advantage.
Air quality - nothing to do with whether it is a TF or block built.

Timber frame became popular because of speed of construction on multiple unit developments being constructed by contractors.
A main contractor can more easily plan, cost and schedule his resources with TF construction due to off site manufacture, and early protection from the elements.

A one off house being self built/ administered by the client has only one advantage with TF, and that is early protection from the elements.
A self builder is then faced with a lot more co-ordination of trades with a TF, and by the nature of the game -i.e plumber did not arrive week 4 for example, the advantage soon disappears.
Allied to the fact that the cost of the timber frame kit is higher than a block built superstructure there is no advantage to the self builder from TF in my opinion. Again, I base all this on personal experience - and I have many years experience in construction.

Splinter Cell

No problem, we'll agree to disagree
I did acknowledge good design in my original post though and would say that a house built block on flat, externally insulated, with a plaster finish inside will perform very well. However, the majority of builds I see are still cavity built with 60mm of (badly fitted) insulation and another 40-60mm of insulated plaster board inside. I don't accept that a house full of chemical boards outgassing will have the same air quality as a breathable TF insulated with cellulose. Widening the cavity to avoid this brings structural challenges, particularly at thermal bridges such as the cavity closer ... that can also be designed out too, with a bit of skill.
I am self building a TF myself - I wrote the desired air tightness into the contract, making the TF company accountable for achieving and providing independent confirmation of same before a € will be paid - it doesn't get much easier for me than that.

t wex

Hi ellie,
There are plenty of open panel tf manufacturers that will look after the insulation and airtightness on site and co-ordinate window sizes and delivery with your window company. The only difference us you will have to employ a slabber to bring the house up to the same stage the closed panel would leave it

Can open achieve same insulation? Yes just put same insulation in.
Can open achieve same airtightness as a factory built closed panel? Its easier to achieve extremely high levels of airtightness. once the slab is on the wall there is no way to correct a problem if a blow door test gives poor results. With an open panel you can take the build test, build test approach. Yes blow door tests are a few hundred euro but in my opinion its important to get one done during construction when problems can still be rectified as well as at completion for the ber cert.

Ceilings and roof will have to be insulated on site anyway so why not let some one local do the slabbing and let the open tf guys look after the insulstion and air-tightness.

For the inconvenience of just a few weeks the saving you will make on using an opwn timber frame will allow you to up the insulation spec or employ someone to manage the rest of the build.

Best of luck with your build