What does it actually mean, that Irish is compulsory

Stabshauptmann

So apparently, the LC requirements are that you sit 5 subjects, and that one of these must be Irish (unless you hold an exemption).

In practice, 99% of people sit at least 6, and they study English and Math as nearly all 3rd level's require English and Math.

But if you fail Irish, what does that mean? Does you're little slip of paper say 0 points?

Whats the point of foundation math when 3rd levels require at least a D in ordinary level math, and math isnt compulsory?

Brendog

I'm not to sure but I think if you fail Irish, you fail the Leaving....

Most level 8 colleges/universities require a D in pass Maths, Irish and english.
Foundation maths is there so students who find the subject extremely difficult can still have a passing grade in the subject.

Maths is needed in everyday life and seeing as the future of the country depends on the younger generation is is imperative that everyone have at least some knowledge of Maths, Irish and English.

Pure Sound

From what I can gather if you do 7 subjects and one is Irish and you fail it your points will be calculated from the other 6 subjects, so technically you can fail Irish. The problem with failing Irish is generally that you will not be accepted in universitys although you can still get into the technologies.

So Irish is compulsory to sit but not to pass although you have more of a choice if you pass it.

Stabshauptmann

Brendog wrote: »

I'm not to sure but I think if you fail Irish, you fail the Leaving....

Most level 8 colleges/universities require a D in pass Maths, Irish and english.
Foundation maths is there so students who find the subject extremely difficult can still have a passing grade in the subject.

Maths is needed in everyday life and seeing as the future of the country depends on the younger generation is is imperative that everyone have at least some knowledge of Maths, Irish and English.

Ok, its late, but you got to ask yourself: what did I add to the discussion.

1) You gave an opinion without any source, linked or otherwise, or reasoning. Just a statement.
2) There are no Level 8 institutions, there are level 8 awards
3) You just repeated my post and my reasoning.

Its funny, because it looks like a LC Irish or French paper answer. See a phrase you understand, repeat it and paraphrase and hopefully you've answered the question :pac:

johnmcdnl

Failing Irish doesn't fail your leaving cert... just like failing maths doesn't fail your leaving...

when you get the results you don't actually get say 450 points written anywhere on the results sheet..

that's just a points scheme devised by the CAO and colleges to allocate places...



you "fail" the leaving if you don't have Irish becuase most college courses in ireland require it so essentially you can't go to college even if you got A1s in every other subject...

back years ago I think if you failed any of the core subjects you were marked down as "failing the leaving cert" but I'm not sure but today anyways you CAN'T fail the leaving even if you get 0 points... technically you just failed all your exams but you can't actually fail the Leaving itself

GoldRush4821

You make a good point about foundation maths. I don't know why people who are clearly so terrible with numbers are forced to do maths till the very end while people can get exemptions for various reasons regarding Irish. Shouldn't there be a mathematical dyslexia, because trust me, that is what it is for people. People who struggle so much with Irish are accommodated while those who cannot figure out maths are just passed down and down to foundation level and, let's face it, humiliated. Nobody wants to take foundation level and, in my view, anyone who comes to that stage should just be allowed drop out of maths all together. When it comes to their time in the working world, I am sure they will know enough from JC maths to calculate basic things like income tax, bills etc... I find when people have practical applications for maths, and when deducing how much they are being paid hinges on mathematical understanding, that they are well capable of applying the fundamentals.

As for Irish, you need it for the majority of University courses (feel free to correct me on this) and although your points certainly won't be 0, you will be restricted in terms of where you want to go to college. I think the ITs don't require Irish, but again, can't be sure.

spurious

A pass in the Leaving is generally taken to be five passes at any level.

In the old days, regardless of your marks in any other subjects, if you failed Irish, you failed the lot. This is not the case any more.

rainbowtrout

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Ok, its late, but you got to ask yourself: what did I add to the discussion.

1) You gave an opinion without any source, linked or otherwise, or reasoning. Just a statement.
2) There are no Level 8 institutions, there are level 8 awards
3) You just repeated my post and my reasoning.

Its funny, because it looks like a LC Irish or French paper answer. See a phrase you understand, repeat it and paraphrase and hopefully you've answered the question :pac:

You did the exact same thing in your opening post so I don't see why you're being so smart about it.

You asked a question, you got a reply and then rubbished the reply. Feel better now?

So apparently, the LC requirements are that you sit 5 subjects, and that one of these must be Irish (unless you hold an exemption).

In practice, 99% of people sit at least 6, and they study English and Math as nearly all 3rd level's require English and Math.

But if you fail Irish, what does that mean? Does you're little slip of paper say 0 points?

Whats the point of foundation math when 3rd levels require at least a D in ordinary level math, and math isnt compulsory?

So to answer your original post:

Not all 3rd level courses require maths. There are a number of courses that don't. You can look them up on Qualifax.

None of the Institutes of Technology require English only. They all stipulate English OR Irish.

Your points for your subjects are not printed on your Leaving Cert results. Points are for the CAO only and, so, are indepedent of the examinations system. All that will be printed on your results is your list of subjects, the level at which you took the exam and the grade you achieved.

Foundation maths is accepted by some 3rd level courses as an entry requirement although no CAO points are associated with it normally. Foundation maths also serves another purpose: for those who are not capable of passing Higher or Ordinary Level Maths at Leaving Cert and do not need maths for entry to their chosen 3rd level course, or who do not plan on attending college and do not need to pass maths at a higher level, it shows that they studied the subject up to Leaving Cert level and have some level of knowledge of maths however basic it might be.

rainbowtrout

GoldRush4821 wrote: »

You make a good point about foundation maths. I don't know why people who are clearly so terrible with numbers are forced to do maths till the very end while people can get exemptions for various reasons regarding Irish. Shouldn't there be a mathematical dyslexia, because trust me, that is what it is for people. People who struggle so much with Irish are accommodated while those who cannot figure out maths are just passed down and down to foundation level and, let's face it, humiliated. Nobody wants to take foundation level and, in my view, anyone who comes to that stage should just be allowed drop out of maths all together. When it comes to their time in the working world, I am sure they will know enough from JC maths to calculate basic things like income tax, bills etc... I find when people have practical applications for maths, and when deducing how much they are being paid hinges on mathematical understanding, that they are well capable of applying the fundamentals.

As for Irish, you need it for the majority of University courses (feel free to correct me on this) and although your points certainly won't be 0, you will be restricted in terms of where you want to go to college. I think the ITs don't require Irish, but again, can't be sure.

People in this country can function quite normally their whole lives without having one word of Irish. People do need some level of maths for everyday stuff. You suggest dropping it at Leaving Cert. I disagree. If you tell students they can drop it after Junior Cert, they will not get the practice at it that they would by taking it for LC. I've taught Foundation Maths for LC and have met plenty of students with difficulties in calculating income tax and bills, things that you suggest they should be well able to do after JC. It's not the case for many of the students doing FL Maths. Practicing those skills over the two years does help with real world stuff. The very fact that they are doing FL maths for Leaving Cert would suggest that they struggled with it for JC and need more help with it.

As for Irish, it's not a compulsory entry requirement in UL. It's Irish or a foreign language, and I think Trinity might be the same.

Evan93

Brendog wrote: »

Maths is needed in everyday life and seeing as the future of the country depends on the younger generation is is imperative that everyone have at least some knowledge of Maths, Irish and English.

I disagree that you find it imperative that "everyone have at least some knowledge of Maths, Irish and English". As you said, Maths, to an extent, is needed in everyday life. However, not all aspects of it are. Therefore, that's why we have foundation, for those who do not like or are incapable of handling ordinary and higher levels. I think Maths should be compulsory, for the reason that it teaches basic problem solving- an essential tool in everyday life. As should English, critical analysis is hugely important. Questioning why someone did such and such a thing and their motive is something we come across everyday- whether we like it or not.

However, your conviction that Irish remain compulsory is completely ungrounded. I fail to see how Irish impacts on everyday life. Are there any practical aspects?

The argument that it preserves culture and what not is completely ridiculous. Culture is for those who want culture. Culture should not be forced on people. At the moment the Irish syllabus is simply a regurgitation of useless material. And that is the truth. Let people who want to do it, do it. While those who do not, do not. It's simple.

randylonghorn

There is already one "should Irish be compulsory / optional / tattooed on my InsertPreferenceHere" thread active in this forum at the moment ... in fact, at this moment, it is directly above this thread.

One is more than enough for the forum, and (far more importantly ), for my brain!!

Especially when it deviates significantly off-topic within 10 posts.

Locked.

MathsManiac

Rainbowtrout has alreeady answered your original questions, but I'd just like to point out one further minor clarification regarding your initial statement that "So apparently, the LC requirements are that you sit 5 subjects, and that one of these must be Irish (unless you hold an exemption)."

This is not quite correct - you are not required to sit Irish in the exam. You are required to follow a programme of study in Irish in order to be counted as a registered senior cycle student (unless you have an exemption). If you are not a registered senior cycle student, then the Department makes no contribution to the school in respect of your education. That is, the school doesn't get a "capitation grant" for you, and can't can't you in for the purpose of their teacher allocation.

It is in this sense that Irish is compulsory. Also, there is no other subject with a similar requirement, which is whay there is no such thing as an exemption from maths or from English.

randylonghorn

Hmm, Boards decided to glitch ...

However, MM above is correct as far as I know, and it's a useful endnote to the thread, so maybe Boards' hamsters are getting psychic! :pac: