€20k for a new BMW Vs €10-12k for a second hand

embraer170

Upon starting my job, my employer offered me a once off chance to get 20-35% off a (limited) selection of new cars.

This results in about about 35% off a Prius, a good 30% off a BMW 3Series and 25% off a C Class Mercedes. The employer also absorbs the tax consequences of this. I spent the past year messing around, test drove a few cars, negotiated with a few dealers but never could come to a decision. Crunch time has now hit and I really need a car and my employer´s offer expires next month.

My budget is about €21k for which I could get a BMW 316D with a few options. I just feel a bit hesitant about spending that amount of money on a car which will look outdated next year when the new 3 Series comes out.

At the same time, it seems I could get a 5 or so year old 3 series diesel with 100k miles afor about €12k (based in Germany so prices are probably a bit different than at home). I would also save €1k /year on insurance for the first few years. I hope to hang on to the car for 4-5 years (though I am sure more if it is new). I could afford the difference but would also rather see the money in my bank account rather than parked on the driveway.

I do about 25k miles a year.

Any feedback on the real pros and cons of a new or second hand? The warranty is of course the crucial aspect but I know I can also meet problems when the new BMW goes out of warranty.

faral

mate, tell ya wha` never ever buy a new scrap off the dealer.for 11-12 grand ye will find a descent car with low millage,well maintained, from one previous owner and yu`ll find yourself with 10k extra in the pocket.nice money.
bmw are worthless and overpriced just because they are number of people wich are willing to throw all the money they have only to drive bmw.

Leonard Hofstadter

Is there no way you can get a more powerful 3 series?

114 bhp on an autobahn will struggle big time. In fact such a low power car would be useless even in this country.

A Prius will be hopelessly inefficient on an autobahn - the main benefit of hybrids is around town and on low to medium speed cruises (70-90 kph).

Are those three cars the only ones available new?

funkyouup

faral wrote: »

mate, tell ya wha` never ever buy a new scrap off the dealer.

If people arent buying new cars now then what you think is going to happen to the used car maket in 10 years time?

Anan1

captainspeed wrote: »

114 bhp on an autobahn will struggle big time. In fact such a low power car would be useless even in this country.

On the contrary, a 316d will be quite happy rolling along at 200km/h on the Autobahn. I drove one a couple of weeks ago and, while it mightn't be the best for back-road overtakes, it's actually a well-rounded car.

embraer170

I could get a 318D / 320D (or any other) but it takes the car above my budget (especially with a few options) and I dont see the point in spending 2.5k / 4k more for a bit of power.

During a test drive, I had no problem with the 316D on the motorway. It keeps up with the faster traffic just fine (I did find it a bit rough in the lower gears though).

I test drove the Prius a few times and was also pleasantly surprised. It's a relaxing drive with a few fun features but just feels like a fridge inside rather than a car (I would probably buy it if it wasn't for that).

Shane732

embraer170 wrote: »

I could get a 318D / 320D (or any other) but it takes the car above my budget (especially with a few options) and I dont see the point in spending 2.5k / 4k more for a bit of power.

During a test drive, I had no problem with the 316D on the motorway. It keeps up with the faster traffic just fine (I did find it a bit rough in the lower gears though).

I test drove the Prius a few times and was also pleasantly surprised. It's a relaxing drive with a few fun features but just feels like a fridge inside rather than a car (I would probably buy it if it wasn't for that).

I'm a huge BMW fan but I really wouldn't recommend a 316D. Are the cars in your original post the only ones you have to pick from?

Based on your post above I'd imagine that power isn't an issue for you. If you've the option of anything else then I'd look around - you'll get better value out there.

Don't buy a frecking Pirus!!

VolvoMan

Would an S60 D3 be within budget over there?

bazz26

Have you test drove a Skoda Superb, Opel Insignia or Ford Mondeo? All good motorway mile munchers.

Honda Accord should be looked at too if within budget.

rabbitinlights

faral wrote: »

mate, tell ya wha` never ever buy a new scrap off the dealer.for 11-12 grand ye will find a descent car with low millage,well maintained, from one previous owner and yu`ll find yourself with 10k extra in the pocket.nice money.
bmw are worthless and overpriced just because they are number of people wich are willing to throw all the money they have only to drive bmw.

Gibberish.

Gumbo

how about a slightly older 535d?

bladespin

funkyouup wrote: »

If people arent buying new cars now then what you think is going to happen to the used car maket in 10 years time?

Same as now, most deacent second hand stuff is/will be imported.

Guy:Incognito

bladespin wrote: »

Same as now, most deacent second hand stuff is/will be imported.

Ah right, it's only here people shoudl stop buying cars

keithclancy

embraer170 wrote: »

Upon starting my job, my employer offered me a once off chance to get 20-35% off a (limited) selection of new cars.

This results in about about 35% off a Prius, a good 30% off a BMW 3Series and 25% off a C Class Mercedes. The employer also absorbs the tax consequences of this. I spent the past year messing around, test drove a few cars, negotiated with a few dealers but never could come to a decision. Crunch time has now hit and I really need a car and my employer´s offer expires next month.

My budget is about €21k for which I could get a BMW 316D with a few options. I just feel a bit hesitant about spending that amount of money on a car which will look outdated next year when the new 3 Series comes out.

At the same time, it seems I could get a 5 or so year old 3 series diesel with 100k miles afor about €12k (based in Germany so prices are probably a bit different than at home). I would also save €1k /year on insurance for the first few years. I hope to hang on to the car for 4-5 years (though I am sure more if it is new). I could afford the difference but would also rather see the money in my bank account rather than parked on the driveway.

I do about 25k miles a year.

Any feedback on the real pros and cons of a new or second hand? The warranty is of course the crucial aspect but I know I can also meet problems when the new BMW goes out of warranty.

25k miles or KM per year ?

I'd forget the Prius, that thing drinks fuel, only really useful in Traffic.
Don't know the details of that Deal but is your employ

Is there anything stopping you from buying the new BMW and selling it 6 months later then buying a second hand one ?

Idbatterim

youd pick up a nice E60 m sport for that money back here. dont know what you would get in germany...

keithclancy

Idbatterim wrote: »

youd pick up a nice E60 m sport for that money back here. dont know what you would get in germany...

A very sh*tty old e60 msport

Anan1

kceire wrote: »

how about a slightly older 535d?

Idbatterim wrote: »

youd pick up a nice E60 m sport for that money back here. dont know what you would get in germany...

Who is this car for, again?;)

And, more seriously, when did a trim pack become more worthy of mention than an engine?

Idbatterim

A very sh*tty old e60 msport

nothing wrong with the below except mileage is a bit high... there were some other nice ones up on carzone, that have sold. I would take the better car, over the newer reg any day!

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/523-MSpo/201106201209093/advert?channel=CARS

maidhc

25k a year over 5 years is 125k miles. I doubt modern BMW diesels are doing that milage without costing significant money.

I'd go for a new highish spec Mondeo/Insigna. Better buy all round.

embraer170

Thanks everyone.

I'm relatively set on a BMW (or Merc). Other than grocery shopping etc, I sometimes do 200-300km motorway trips at the weekends and the ride comfort on the BMWs and Mercs seems significantly better than cheaper alternatives.

keithclancy wrote: »

25k miles or KM per year ?

I'd forget the Prius, that thing drinks fuel, only really useful in Traffic.
Don't know the details of that Deal but is your employ

Is there anything stopping you from buying the new BMW and selling it 6 months later then buying a second hand one ?

Probably closer to 20,000 miles / year.

I can't resell the new car for 3 years.

I won't be buying a Prius but a few test drives + this (European) blog convinced me that it is definitely a decent car:
http://prius3.wordpress.com/

maidhc

maidhc wrote: »

25k a year over 5 years is 125k miles. I doubt modern BMW diesels are doing that milage without costing significant money.

Whats that based on?

Utter nonsense!

keithclancy

embraer170 wrote: »

Thanks everyone.

I'm relatively set on a BMW (or Merc). Other than grocery shopping etc, I sometimes do 200-300km motorway trips at the weekends and the ride comfort on the BMWs and Mercs seems significantly better than cheaper alternatives.

Probably closer to 20,000 miles / year.

I can't resell the new car for 3 years.

I won't be buying a Prius but a few test drives + this (European) blog convinced me that it is definitely a decent car:
http://prius3.wordpress.com/

So if you left the company in 6 months time how would they enforce that ?
Also I'd get that promise to pay off the Tax implication in writing, the offset would have to be paid at the end of the year and wouldn't usually be paid up front.

Its up to you really, if you'd like a new car then go for it, if your not too bothered then don't, if you keep it for 3 years at 20,000 miles / year then your discount would write off *most* of the devaluation.

Your insurance at 1000 euros / year sounds nuts, i'm paying 380 this year with 40,000km / year on a 2005 Volvo V50 2.0 with 5 years NCB.

veetwin

kceire wrote: »

how about a slightly older 535d?

While its a great suggestion I'm guessing anyone considering buying a 316D won't end up in a 535D!

J77

VolvoMan wrote: »

Would an S60 D3 be within budget over there?

You sure live up to you're name through your suggestions!

S60 is a great car though. Drove a D5 r-design S60 and I am seriously considering buying one when the time comes in a couple of years!

maidhc

Josephine Ugly Ham wrote: »

Whats that based on?

Utter nonsense!

I should have been clearer. Doing 125k miles on a car with 100k miles already is not a recipie for cheap or troublefree motoring on a modern diesel.

VolvoMan

J77 wrote: »

You sure live up to you're name through your suggestions!

Yeah, I suppose like one supports a football club you grow to support a car brand. I as an enthusiast would love to see the new S60/V60 do well so the brand has a future.

You see this sort of thing a lot with SAAB owners. Sure they were the one brand that GM couldn't get away with closing.

Anan1

VolvoMan wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose like one supports a football club you grow to support a car brand. I as an enthusiast would love to see the new S60/V60 do well so the brand has a future.

You see this sort of thing a lot with SAAB owners. Sure they were the one brand that GM couldn't get away with closing.

At the end of the day, brands are only coloured badges on the front of cars. I'll lay my hard-earned out for ability, I don't care what it says on the bonnet. For example, i'll always be more emotionally drawn to Alfa than to BMW. Does this mean i'd buy a 159 over an E90? No, right now the BMW is a better car.

keithclancy

Anan1 wrote: »

At the end of the day, brands are only coloured badges on the front of cars. I'll lay my hard-earned out for ability, I don't care what it says on the bonnet. For example, i'll always be more emotionally drawn to Alfa than to BMW. Does this mean i'd buy a 159 over an E90? No, right now the BMW is a better car.

This view only works out when your buying old cars.
New cars are usually a minefield as there havent been any long term tests.

I agree though that following a Brand is just silly, the individual models can vary widely in quality and issues.

Saying that though the brand image can really affect the complaints, I.E.

If a problem happens on a Golf then people scream bloody murder because VW's are supposed to be Reliable.

If the same problem happens on an Octavia, people are only mildly annoyed because the Skoda didnt explode and kill everyone inside.

The Brand sets the customers expectation, the faults can appear to be far worse and widespread on a 'premium' marque even though a non premium marque sharing the same components can have the same faults.

Anan1

keithclancy wrote: »

This view only works out when your buying old cars.
New cars are usually a minefield as there havent been any long term tests.

I meant ability on the road. While reliability is always good, it's not a major factor in my choice of car.:)

Sheeps

Get one of those new C class Mercedes with the new grill! They're probably one of the nicest looking cars on the road.

J77

VolvoMan wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose like one supports a football club you grow to support a car brand. I as an enthusiast would love to see the new S60/V60 do well so the brand has a future.

You see this sort of thing a lot with SAAB owners. Sure they were the one brand that GM couldn't get away with closing.

I'd also really like to see Volvo doing well, and i'm not quite sure why, as I've had a bunch of issues with mine!! The S60 D5 r-design was cracking car though and I really liked the engine even though some people consider it as sounding a bit harsh, I thought it was quite free revving and I liked the sound. Excellent interior quality and the 7" infotainment system was excellent. Only part of the the car i was not too hot on was the manual gearbox. Ratios were fine but the shift was very rubbery and inconcise and the gearstick itself was too chunky.

The pricing wasn't done well enough to really establish a market presence. It was a poor move to only offer leather on SE LUX. The pricing and spec on the S40s is what made them so popular.

However the D5 r-design does undercut it's competitors by 5-8k depending.

lomb

Get a well specced 03 mercedes E class Diesel for around 7, (new was 60+ so its virtually free)drive it for 3 years , then let it on for about 3 , id say thats cheap motoring in a seriously nice car wouldn't you? If you want to go nutty get an S class diesel of the same vintage.

All the 'good' stuff, is around 7 grand now, evos, nice mercs, nice audis, nice bmws. Personally I wouldnt spend any more on a used car. Its used for a reason, you dont want to be paying serious money for it.
Also most good stuff is imported second hand from the UK where the best specs and colours can be had. Most of the stuff here is poverty spec with cloth seats etc and unserviced. I would be reluctant to buy an Irish used car without some proper paperwork. Many times you get lucky and the used car you are after is actually from the UK and has only been imported in the last few years in which case its all good with the proper paperwork. Look for late plate numbers for the year in question.

lomb

J77 wrote: »

I'd also really like to see Volvo doing well, and i'm not quite sure why, as I've had a bunch of issues with mine!! The S60 D5 r-design was cracking car though and I really liked the engine even though some people consider it as sounding a bit harsh, I thought it was quite free revving and I liked the sound. Excellent interior quality and the 7" infotainment system was excellent. Only part of the the car i was not too hot on was the manual gearbox. Ratios were fine but the shift was very rubbery and inconcise and the gearstick itself was too chunky.

The pricing wasn't done well enough to really establish a market presence. It was a poor move to only offer leather on SE LUX. The pricing and spec on the S40s is what made them so popular.

However the D5 r-design does undercut it's competitors by 5-8k depending.

It wouldnt matter if the volvo was free, it would have a limited market anyway. There are very few volvo lovers out there for whatever reason. The square dash and cars doesnt help but neither does the off mainstream brand.

maidhc

maidhc wrote: »

I should have been clearer. Doing 125k miles on a car with 100k miles already is not a recipie for cheap or troublefree motoring on a modern diesel.

Apologies I thought you meant putting 125k on a new BMW diesel is not possible without spending big money.

J77

lomb wrote: »

It wouldnt matter if the volvo was free, it would have a limited market anyway. There are very few volvo lovers out there for whatever reason. The square dash and cars doesnt help but neither does the off mainstream brand.

I see plenty of volvos on the road. Often see S40s yet have only seen one new S60 on the road in traffic. I think the interior in the new S60 is absolutely brilliant and I prefer using it to the E90 dash. If volvo wants to win over customers in the compact exec market they need to be more competitive with price and spec. They do have the best entry engine by miles though.

VolvoMan

lomb wrote: »

It wouldnt matter if the volvo was free, it would have a limited market anyway. There are very few volvo lovers out there for whatever reason. The square dash and cars doesnt help but neither does the off mainstream brand.

I think you're thinking of the way Volvos were in the 70's/80's. They haven't launched a square car since the 850 of 1992.

J77 wrote: »

I see plenty of volvos on the road. Often see S40s yet have only seen one new S60 on the road in traffic. I think the interior in the new S60 is absolutely brilliant and I prefer using it to the E90 dash. If volvo wants to win over customers in the compact exec market they need to be more competitive with price and spec. They do have the best entry engine by miles though.

People forget the successful period the company had at the start of the last decade. The S60 was going from strength to strength against the 3 Series/A4 and the XC90 was dominating the SUV class. Up until around 2004 they were nearly a default car to buy if you didn't want a Mercedes or BMW (Audi weren't really quite as premium back then). They sold about half a million cars that year as far as I remember and I think they did even better than that in '07.

Hopefully now with their old chief designer back in charge they'll regain some of the glory they lost during Ford ownership.

bazz26

lomb wrote: »

It wouldnt matter if the volvo was free, it would have a limited market anyway. There are very few volvo lovers out there for whatever reason. The square dash and cars doesnt help but neither does the off mainstream brand.

Don't know what Volvos you have been sitting in but their dashboards are far from square in the last decade or so.

Below is the current S40, it introduced the "floating" centre console that still looks modern 7 years on:



Then came the S80 4 years ago:


And now the new S60: