Increasing water pressure

cracker · 21-02-2011 4:55pm #1

Hi

We had an attic conversion done and the tank was moved into the space above new roof in the conversion. There is an ensuite in the attic and the pressure is really bad presumably because the drop is a lot less now. Is it possible to do anything to improve the pressure? Could any kind of a pump be fitted to improve things. The toilet on the bottom floor is also filling really slowly but I am not sure if this is related since the one on the 2nd floor is fine.

Thanks

Dave

jeepers101 · 21-02-2011 5:44pm

If I'd say the toilet on the ground floor is filling slowly either due to a problem with the ball cock valve or maybe the valve feeding this leg (at the tank) wasn't opened properly.

Are you looking for a pump for the cold water in the en-suite or hot & cold? Either way it shouldn't be a problem.

cracker · 22-02-2011 1:18pm

The shower in the attic ensuite is fine, it is a power shower. But the taps in the sink have very low pressure, especially the cold one and the toilet fills quite pretty slowly too. Would it be a case of a single pump for the attic ensuite and if so any idea how much it would cost?

Joey the lips · 22-02-2011 2:26pm

This is a common problem and one who fit the attic bathroom should have known you can do one of 2 things

For the shower in the Attic bathroom either fit a 1.5bar neg head pump. Stuart turner or monsoon seem to be the best although i am fond of salamander.

or fit a triton t80 to the mains pipe in the attic.

For my money i reckon the 1.5 bar pump will work

You should have also experienced loss of pressure to the shower in your 1st floor ensiute... ie master bedroom. In which case if the pump is connected right it should work both as its rare to be using both together.

heinbloed · 22-02-2011 11:38pm

It might be possible to switch to a pressurised system.

cracker · 23-02-2011 9:24am

The showers are fine, it is the taps in the sink and the toilet that are the problem. So in this case the triton t80 on the mains pipe seems to be the best way to go. Any idea on cost of buying and installing one of these?

Pud27 · 23-02-2011 9:33am

I had a pump fitted in my home last year. It ended up costing me €350 - but he also did a few small other little jobs.

But I had priced with a few plumbers, and had prices of €650 , €750 , and even €1000 :eek:

So be careful, and price around!

user1842 · 23-02-2011 9:35am

cracker wrote: »

The showers are fine, it is the taps in the sink and the toilet that are the problem. So in this case the triton t80 on the mains pipe seems to be the best way to go. Any idea on cost of buying and installing one of these?

We had the same problem so our plumber just used the mains to feed the attic toilet and cold tap. The hot tap still had low pressure so he fitted one of those mixer taps to the sink so the hot and cold are combined. Problem solved. Cheap solution rather than fitting a pump.

Although I have heard that you can only connect one feed off the mains, not sure about that though.

Joey the lips · 23-02-2011 7:14pm

cracker wrote: »

The showers are fine, it is the taps in the sink and the toilet that are the problem. So in this case the triton t80 on the mains pipe seems to be the best way to go. Any idea on cost of buying and installing one of these?

T80 is about 190 euro fitting is anywhere between 150 and 300 euro. You will sometimes find a plumber that can do the electrical work although for my money I would get a seperate electrician.

sullzz · 23-02-2011 8:17pm

If the shower is fine you don't need a t80 . It should be easy enough to fit a pump for the hot and cold supplies , it usually is if the pipework is in the eaves , shouldn't be too expensive either. I'd say the problem with the downstairs toilet is just dirt in the ballvalve or the diaphragm washer needs replacing , it is not related to the pressure problem in the attic , if anything the pressure at that toilet should be better since the tank got raised

Joey the lips · 23-02-2011 9:00pm

sullzz wrote: »

If the shower is fine you don't need a t80 . It should be easy enough to fit a pump for the hot and cold supplies , it usually is if the pipework is in the eaves , shouldn't be too expensive either. I'd say the problem with the downstairs toilet is just dirt in the ballvalve or the diaphragm washer needs replacing , it is not related to the pressure problem in the attic , if anything the pressure at that toilet should be better since the tank got raised

As he will require a negative head pump it will be more expensive than the T80. My impression was the cheapest option was what is required...

But yes a negative head will also do the job.

sullzz · 23-02-2011 9:52pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

As he will require a negative head pump it will be more expensive than the T80. My impression was the cheapest option was what is required...

But yes a negative head will also do the job.

Im sorry joey , I must be missing something here , what is a t80 going to do for him , he said that his shower is fine .
Why would he need a negative head pump , I thought he said the tank is now located above the ceiling in the conversion , surely a st55 or something similar would do the job .

jeepers101 · 24-02-2011 5:44am

Joey the lips wrote: »

You will sometimes find a plumber that can do the electrical work although for my money I would get a seperate electrician.

Or a sparks that will do the plumbing

Joey the lips · 24-02-2011 8:14am

cracker wrote: »

Hi

We had an attic conversion done and the tank was moved into the space above new roof in the conversion. There is an ensuite in the attic and the pressure is really bad presumably because the drop is a lot less now. Is it possible to do anything to improve the pressure? Could any kind of a pump be fitted to improve things. The toilet on the bottom floor is also filling really slowly but I am not sure if this is related since the one on the 2nd floor is fine.

Thanks

Dave

sullzz wrote: »

Im sorry joey , I must be missing something here , what is a t80 going to do for him , he said that his shower is fine .
Why would he need a negative head pump , I thought he said the tank is now located above the ceiling in the conversion , surely a st55 or something similar would do the job .

I underlined it. I could have been reading wrong but i dont think so. You CANNOT use an st55 for an attic conversion. If it works its pure luck.

jeepers101 wrote: »

Or a sparks that will do the plumbing

Agreed but i generally found that plumbers can do simple electrics but sparks are poor plumbers. Just like plumbers are poor tilers. Just my opinion....

cracker · 24-02-2011 8:38am

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear.

The water pressure for the shower is fine. It is a triton power shower. The problem is the cold tap in the sink of the ensuite and also the toilet in the ensuite. It is just a dribble at the best of times and recently the tap has stopped completely and the toiltet was filling very very slowly. The hot tap is not great but ok. The water tank is above them in the crawl space above the conversion ceiling.

From googling st55 and T80 they appear to be shower pumps which is not what I need. I am completely ignorant of plumbing so I don't have a clue what the options are.

user1842 · 24-02-2011 9:04am

cracker wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear.

The water pressure for the shower is fine. It is a triton power shower. The problem is the cold tap in the sink of the ensuite and also the toilet in the ensuite. It is just a dribble at the best of times and recently the tap has stopped completely and the toiltet was filling very very slowly. The hot tap is not great but ok. The water tank is above them in the crawl space above the conversion ceiling.

From googling st55 and T80 they appear to be shower pumps which is not what I need. I am completely ignorant of plumbing so I don't have a clue what the options are.

Would connecting the mains supply to the toilet and cold tap not solve this problem (just tap off the feed to the cold tank in the attic). Why use a pump?

Joey the lips · 24-02-2011 11:20am

cracker wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear.

The water pressure for the shower is fine. It is a triton power shower. The problem is the cold tap in the sink of the ensuite and also the toilet in the ensuite. It is just a dribble at the best of times and recently the tap has stopped completely and the toiltet was filling very very slowly. The hot tap is not great but ok. The water tank is above them in the crawl space above the conversion ceiling.

From googling st55 and T80 they appear to be shower pumps which is not what I need. I am completely ignorant of plumbing so I don't have a clue what the options are.

Have you changed the taps or the toilet. Where did you buy them. They sound like they might be highpressure.

Can you lay it all out again as its a little confusing to read. Refere to it as groundfloor toilet, First floor toilet and attic toilet. Thats if you want to do it again,

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Would connecting the mains supply to the toilet and cold tap not solve this problem (just tap off the feed to the cold tank in the attic). Why use a pump?

Connecting a mains supply to an upstairs toilet and taps is illegal....You would not be encouraging someone to perform an illegal act that will void there house insurence should something happen would you?

user1842 · 24-02-2011 11:25am

Joey the lips wrote: »

Connecting a mains supply to an upstairs toilet and taps is illegal....You would not be encouraging someone to perform an illegal act that will void there house insurence should something happen would you?

Why the hell did my plumber do it then when we converted our attic? I going to give him a call I think

Joey the lips · 24-02-2011 11:28am

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Why the hell did my plumber do it then when we converted our attic? I going to give him a call I think

Good idea...ie give him a call. He should have used a negative head pump to run pressure up from the hot press. Although imo its roughly the same thing except you can hear the pump going.

Just check the current legislation. I dont have a link but as far as my experience goes no main past the ball valve with the exception of a mains fed shower.

cracker · 24-02-2011 1:29pm

Situtation is

Water tank is in crawl space above attic conversion

Attic Ensuite
Shower is fine (It is triton power shower)
Cold tap and toilet are terrible
Hot tap is average

First floor
Fine

Ground floor
Cloak room toilet is bad but from responses this appears to be un-related to problems in attic. The kitchen taps etc. are fine.

I had assumed all cold water for the attic was coming directly from the water tank but it sounds from the responses that it shouldn't be?

sullzz · 24-02-2011 6:10pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

I underlined it. I could have been reading wrong but i dont think so. You CANNOT use an st55 for an attic conversion. If it works its pure luck.

I don't see how it would be a problem when the storage tank is located above the fixtures .

jeepers101 · 24-02-2011 7:56pm

Cracker I think there's a chance the problem is being caused by an airlock. The reason for my suspicion is that you have average pressure from the hot water tap. You should, in theory, have equal or even slightly better from the cold tap and toilet. If the cold water tap had the same pressure as the hot water tap would you be happy?

Joey the lips · 24-02-2011 9:04pm

sullzz wrote: »

Joey the lips wrote: »

I underlined it. I could have been reading wrong but i dont think so. You CANNOT use an st55 for an attic conversion. If it works its pure luck.

I don't see how it would be a problem when the storage tank is located above the fixtures .

OK you go ahead and use one so.... The storage thank is not located above the fixtures in the attic conversion

Joey the lips · 24-02-2011 9:06pm

cracker wrote: »

Situtation is

Water tank is in crawl space above attic conversion

Attic Ensuite
Shower is fine (It is triton power shower)
Cold tap and toilet are terrible
Hot tap is average

First floor
Fine

Ground floor
Cloak room toilet is bad but from responses this appears to be un-related to problems in attic. The kitchen taps etc. are fine.

I had assumed all cold water for the attic was coming directly from the water tank but it sounds from the responses that it shouldn't be?

You might need to have a negative head pump fitted to work the taps in the ensuite.

Look at changing the ball valve in the ground floor toilet to a low pressure aquasave it should be fine then

sullzz · 24-02-2011 9:26pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

sullzz wrote: »

OK you go ahead and use one so.... The storage thank is not located above the fixtures in the attic conversion

Yes joey I would use one and I have dozens of times , there is no need to use a negative head pump for every attic conversion , and as I understand by the OPs post the storage tank is located above the ceiling of the attic conversion , read the first line of his last post ( the one you highlighted ) in your last post . I would not reccomend him to spend bout 700 euro on a negative head pump when a st55 would work in this situation for a fraction of the price

Joey the lips · 25-02-2011 9:43am

sullzz wrote: »

Joey the lips wrote: »

Yes joey I would use one and I have dozens of times , there is no need to use a negative head pump for every attic conversion , and as I understand by the OPs post the storage tank is located above the ceiling of the attic conversion , read the first line of his last post ( the one you highlighted ) in your last post . I would not reccomend him to spend bout 700 euro on a negative head pump when a st55 would work in this situation for a fraction of the price

Your incorrect. You are causeing cavititation of the pump by trying to use it where its not ment to. Again i refere you to the manufacturer guide lines on pump installiation. Its so clear but essentially if there is less than a meter between the shower head and the attic tank negative head comes into play. In attic conversions this is always the case when the tank is put on the floor.

Just because you do it does not make it right.

sullzz · 25-02-2011 4:22pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

sullzz wrote: »

Your incorrect. You are causeing cavititation of the pump by trying to use it where its not ment to. Again i refere you to the manufacturer guide lines on pump installiation. Its so clear but essentially if there is less than a meter between the shower head and the attic tank negative head comes into play. In attic conversions this is always the case when the tank is put on the floor.

Just because you do it does not make it right.

Going to have to agree to disagree on this one , not all attic conversions require the use of a negative head pump , I do fit them where needed , not all attic conversions have the storage tanks located on the floor , some attics are high enough to fit them above their ceiling , which is what I thought the OP was describing . Therefore no need for a negative head pump.

Joey the lips · 26-02-2011 3:40pm

sullzz wrote: »

Joey the lips wrote: »

Going to have to agree to disagree on this one , not all attic conversions require the use of a negative head pump , I do fit them where needed , not all attic conversions have the storage tanks located on the floor , some attics are high enough to fit them above their ceiling , which is what I thought the OP was describing . Therefore no need for a negative head pump.

No we are not we will agree that your incorrectly fitting a pump just because it works. Again i refere you to the manual that comes with the pump. It CLEARLY specifies its working conditions.

Ahem.... Taken from the stuart turner website - you know the crowd makes pumps

What's the difference between Positive and Negative pumps?
Where a minimum gravity flow of water in excess of 0.6L/min is present then this is known as a Positive head condition.
When an outlet (tap or shower head) is above or level with the cold water storage tank then this is known as a Negative head condition.
Stuart Turner Universal pumps are designed to function under both Positive and Negative conditions whereas our Standard pumps are for use where an open vented Positive head condition exists.

Reverse does not work.... Th op clearly describes where his tank is located.

sullzz · 26-02-2011 4:44pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

sullzz wrote: »

Th op clearly describes where his tank is located.

Your dead right he does clearly describe where his tank is located , why don't you have another read , ( tank located in crawl space ABOVE attic conversion) before you start telling people that the are willing to jobs incorrectly . As I said not all attic conversions are the same.
Mabey we will agree that you are wrong

Increasing water pressure

Comments