Another increase in car tax on the way?

Atomic Pineapple

So if the inevitable happens and Fine Geal take over as our government it looks like motorists will be hit even harder:

'Fine wrote:

Increases in motor tax (€50 increase in bands A-D and ‘under 2,000cc’; &
€100 increase on E-G; and over 2,001cc)

Surely the old CC tax rates are high enough already with plenty of room to increase the ridiculously low Co2 based rates thats where they should be putting the increase and there alone?

That would mean I will have to pay €1220 in tax for a car that sees no more than 150 - 200 miles a week.

Anyone else think a further increase in CC based car tax is pushing it just a bit too far?

Heroditas

draffodx wrote: »

Anyone else think a further increase in CC based car tax is pushing it just a bit too far?

I'm in agreement with you but they'll simply play the "environment" card and the majority of the plebistice will meekly agree and say it's a good idea.

ashleey

Yes, but with the stroke of a pen they will have solved the economic crisis. Everyone will have jobs and the sun will shine

dave1982

Tax needs to be on fuel to be fair,but...It's Irish Government :rolleyes:

dr.fuzzenstein

Pretty sure it'll go up.
Along with VAT, VRT, income tax, health levy, health insurance, petrol, diesel, heating oil, grocery prices, mortgage rates, alcohol, ciggies, electricity, gas, coal, clothing, schooling, insurance on anything, air travel and that is just for starters.
But don't worry, your income and value of your house will still be screaming downwards into the abyss.

draffodx

draffodx wrote: »

Anyone else think a further increase in CC based car tax is pushing it just a bit too far?

Yep, looney really, very clown ish decision but they need the cash and minimum €50 off every car taxed/annum no doubt appeals to them more than the backlash that a bigger hike in the emissions based system would create due to folks complaing they bought into the green way bla bla.

gbee

RoverJames wrote: »

due to The Five People complaing they bought into the green way bla bla.

There, I fixed that for ye, no charge.

OSI

OSI wrote: »

Considering how many people are dodging Motor tax at it's current rate, if anything this will drive more to do so, and in effect will likely have little if not a negative effect on the income from such.

I don't really buy into that theory, most folk pay it.

fabsoul

dave1982 wrote: »

Tax needs to be on fuel to be fair,but...It's Irish Government :rolleyes:

FFS do you know how much tax is on fuel already?

OSI

OSI wrote: »

For everyone person that pushes to not pay tax for a year,

For every 100 of them how many get away with it for a year? Most folk who pay it now will pay the new rates too.

no1beemerfan

draffodx wrote: »

So if the inevitable happens and Fine Geal take over as our government it looks like motorists will be hit even harder:



Surely the old CC tax rates are high enough already with plenty of room to increase the ridiculously low Co2 based rates thats where they should be putting the increase and there alone?

That would mean I will have to pay €1220 in tax for a car that sees no more than 150 - 200 miles a week.

Anyone else think a further increase in CC based car tax is pushing it just a bit too far?

Ah for fcuks sake. Thats all I/we need right now! Tax the fcuking "green" cars as they are too fcuking low at the moment. :mad:

Rant over.

mvpr

draffodx wrote: »

So if the inevitable happens and Fine Geal take over as our government it looks like motorists will be hit even harder:



Surely the old CC tax rates are high enough already with plenty of room to increase the ridiculously low Co2 based rates thats where they should be putting the increase and there alone?

That would mean I will have to pay €1220 in tax for a car that sees no more than 150 - 200 miles a week.

Anyone else think a further increase in CC based car tax is pushing it just a bit too far?

Seems unfair on pre-'08 cars. Perhaps it should just be for cars '08+ where the majority are paying a fraction of the tax previously paid (ie VAG 1.9tdi down from circa €600 to €150 or so). Add to this the fact that 10 yr old cars will have to do an NCT once a year (effectively another €50 tax per year). I can understand the principle, but its just making car ownership harder for those who cant afford to drive newer cars.

dave1982

fabsoul wrote: »

FFS do you know how much tax is on fuel already?

Agreed it is high but why should a person who drives their car once a week to do shopping etc.Pay the same as someone who drives it every day?

No road tax.So the more you drive the more you pay

joanofarse

dave1982 wrote: »

Agreed it is high but why should a person who drives their car once a week to do shopping etc.Pay the same as someone who drives it every day?

No road tax.So the more you drive the more you pay

Could not agree more

mickdw

I think it would be much more fair to raise the cost of the lower bands in co2 based system. Im on the co2 system paying a reasonable 450 approx. I would pay €50 extra without issue considering that it is currently cheaper than the old system.
They probably need to tighten the bands at the lower end but I figure they will just increase the cost, keeping the co2 rating in each band the same.
IMO, a €40,000 car shouldnt be getting away with €150 tax, €400 would be very fair for something like a new 520d.
Id say €50 per band though is what will happen

vectra

draffodx wrote: »

So if the inevitable happens and Fine Geal take over as our government it looks like motorists will be hit even harder:



Surely the old CC tax rates are high enough already with plenty of room to increase the ridiculously low Co2 based rates thats where they should be putting the increase and there alone?

That would mean I will have to pay €1220 in tax for a car that sees no more than 150 - 200 miles a week.

Anyone else think a further increase in CC based car tax is pushing it just a bit too far?

And what about the poor old person totterig to the shops that might only put up 100kms per week, You think it is right to crease them and leave big engined cars alone?

Also
why not give a bit of thought to the Big engined Hackneys/Taxis clocking up huge mileage every year and paying disgraceful small tax ??
That's always got under my skin:mad:

Voodoomelon

I still don't understand why they feel CO2 based cars should pay €100 more, it actually sounds like some kind of joke, or poor accounting error. Whatever about me paying criminal amounts for a 2.8l, how can they charge someone with a 1.9 diesel €582 + €100, and someone with a new C02 based Golf or the like €156 + €50, despite their being very little in the difference in emissions?

Not to mention i'm paying 8 times more than that CO2 based Golf and emit less than twice the CO2!

Absolute madness! And you can be sure i'd be pulled over far quicker in an old 7er than someone in a Golf for having no tax.

Voodoomelon

vectra wrote: »

And what about the poor old person totterig to the shops that might only put up 100kms per week, You think it is right to crease them and leave big engined cars alone?

Yes. What has a large engine got to do with it? This is about road usage, emissions and fairness. Tax the fuel, not burden people who have older cars on an illogical system.

dr.fuzzenstein

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Yes. What has a large engine got to do with it? This is about road usage, emissions and fairness. Tax the fuel, not burden people who have older cars on an illogical system.

Don't worry, I'm sure fuel will be taxed as well, just to keep everything fair.
edit::(

Testament1

vectra wrote: »

And what about the poor old person totterig to the shops that might only put up 100kms per week, You think it is right to crease them and leave big engined cars alone?

If they're currently paying 150 euro tax per year 1.9 or 2 litre diesel and that gets increased to 250 euro thats still 9 euro less to tax than a 1 litre car on the current CC based tax rates. I'd hardly call that creasing anyone.
Someone then driving an older bigger engined car (and theres plenty on here) could end up with a tax bill per year thats more than the value of the car!

Whats the point in crucifying someone with taxes just because they dont want to buy a bland, boring "green" car and prefer to drive something with a bit more grunt.
But of course a fairer system such as a "pay as you drive" tax on fuel usage rather than a set tax rate for the year regardless of milage would make too much sense for a government to implement :rolleyes:

Triangle

Imo everyones already paying enough Motor Tax/Petrol tax.

They should look at their pensions and save a bit there!

galwaytt

Triangle wrote: »

Imo everyones already paying enough Motor Tax/Petrol tax.

They should look at their pensions and save a bit there!

I'd modify that a bit: IMO, we now have a 2-tier tax system, biased specifically in favour of the better-off.

Who are these 'better off' ? They are those who have anything from 8k to 50k to spend on a new car, of some sort.

The vast majority of the motoring population, buying used cars, are specifically excluded from this low-cost motoring, by dint of only being able to buy pre 2008 cars.

And they want to hammer them by MORE than the CO2 club?? FFS ! :mad:

It should be the other way around. cc-based cars should now be on a sliding, reducing tax per annum, dependant upon age.

jaffa20

vectra

All this bickering over road tax..And this is only the start of it..For the life of me I cannot understand how fine Gael are tops to get in.. Leave FF in there I say.. at least we have a GOOD idea as to where we stand..

Back to the big car small car..Emission based / CC debate.. I could never understand the system and never will.

Take for example a 1.6 opel vectra and a 2.o liter vectra.. is one paying road tax to use the road or is it paying Tax on engine size?? it is called road tax isnt it?

I agree 100%
abolish road tax and tax fuel..
Drive more = pay more
Drive less = pay less.

slimjimmc

It's called Motor Tax. Anyone can use the road for free so long as it's not in a motor vehicle. And wasn't it a FF minister who first mentioned increasing motor tax just before Christmas, only to be told it wasn't up to him?

dr.fuzzenstein

vectra wrote: »

Leave FF in there I say.. at least we have a GOOD idea as to where we stand.. .

Yes, we stand on cronies running the country who got into bed with bankers in order to sustain a boom that had run it's course as far back as 2006.
By hyperinflating the economy they could buy one, maybe two more elections with nice concessions that just got added onto the bill for the bank implosion caused by the inept, moronic, greedy and corrupt bastards that made up the government.
Because they wanted their pals in the banks to think they where the cool kids.
The tab that was run up by the Irish banks (with the aid of a FF appointed financial regulator who turned a blind eye) was then presented to the Irish people.
They now think that people will do the usual thing of voting in FG for one term and then come back to FF with their tail between their legs like good little children.
In order to facilitate this, the FF spin machine is already in overdrive to blame FG who have to hike taxes in order to pay for the sins of FF and the bankers.
Jesus Tapdancing H. Fcuking Christ people, THIS IS ALL THANKS TO FF!!!!
Do you honestly think they wouldn't hike all that sh*t!?
Anyone who promises milk and honey right now is a liar or a moron, so SF can piss right off.
And Labour are hypocritical bastards to come up with sh*t like that. They would screw you just the same.
DON'T BLAME FG FOR THIS MESS!!

vectra

vectra wrote: »

All this bickering over road tax..And this is only the start of it..For the life of me I cannot understand how fine Gael are tops to get in.. Leave FF in there I say.. at least we have a GOOD idea as to where we stand..
.

Jesus, I'll gladly give an extra €100 to tax the ZT if those FF corrupt, incompetent numpties aren't in government. The only reason FG need to get extra cash in is over the FF fiasco.

Owen

*bangs head off wall*

Tax on fuel. Simple as. Every mile is paid for as a result and it's Greener, those who pollute more pay more. No more untaxed cars. No more 08+ rep cars doing 40k miles a year paying 156 Euro tax and pre 08 family cars doing 10k a year paying 600+. But what about the Hauliers/Businesses? Give them a rebate they can claim. But what about people up the North driving across the border for fuel? Simple - colour our petrol and diesel uniquely. We already colour agri fuel, it's a no brainer.

You cut out the 25 or so employees needed at each Motor Tax office saving .5 million wages in each county per annum or 13 million a year (At that's assuming an average wage of 20k, as if!), cut out the Gardaí wasting time checking for Tax, and at the same time raise money because people will no longer be able to dodge tax and every mile is paid for.

Can't any political party see the advantages of doing this?

vetstu

PaintDoctor wrote: »

*bangs head off wall*

But what about people up the North driving across the border for fuel? Simple - colour our petrol and diesel uniquely. We already colour agri fuel, it's a no brainer.

Unworkable, You couldn't stop people on the border and see whether they had Northern or Southern petrol of diesel in the car, and it would just make the washing plants even more plentiful and profitable. You could add the dye to the northern stuff and sell it dearer down here. :-)

Owen

vetstu wrote: »

Unworkable, You couldn't stop people on the border and see whether they had Northern or Southern petrol of diesel in the car, and it would just make the washing plants even more plentiful and profitable. You could add the dye to the northern stuff and sell it dearer down here. :-)

Why unworkable? Because you say so? It's working fine for Agri diesel, you just have a customs/excise checkpoint randomly. Do it for the first few months to scare people, and then decrease the frequency but still keep them going. Very little man power needed.

Adding colouring to Petrol isn't as simple as popping food colouring in either. You need to have the right mixture of chemicals so as not to break the hydrocarbons.

vetstu

No, because everyone within a couple of miles of the border will just buy in bulk in the north and nothing could be done about it. It would only work if the North went with the same system. If 60-70c went a litre down here and nothing up there you would be stupid to use a southern station to fill up.

kdevitt

vetstu wrote: »

No, because everyone within a couple of miles of the border will just buy in bulk in the north and nothing could be done about it.

...and that would be offset by Northerners who need to fill up when down south, or tourists in rental cars, or the heaps of people who don't pay road tax at all.

It won't happen anyway - the countryfolk would be up in arms due to lack of public transport options! (which kind of highlights the fact that the current policy has no intention of making the polluter pay!)

Joe 90

vetstu wrote: »

No, because everyone within a couple of miles of the border will just buy in bulk in the north and nothing could be done about it. It would only work if the North went with the same system. If 60-70c went a litre down here and nothing up there you would be stupid to use a southern station to fill up.

Which is in fact a good thing about partition. Can you imagine what it would be like if the border wasn't there? Either government could raise tax on fuel or anything else to whatever it liked without having to worry about people just popping across the border to spend their money.

Sorry mods not meant as any sort of political post, just pointing out the way things are.

Satanta

vetstu wrote: »

No, because everyone within a couple of miles of the border will just buy in bulk in the north and nothing could be done about it. It would only work if the North went with the same system. If 60-70c went a litre down here and nothing up there you would be stupid to use a southern station to fill up.

I have seen two shifts in my lifetime so far. When I was a kid, I remember the family heading into Strabane every weekend to fill the car up at the petrol station across the border. Almost everyone did it. The stuff was so much cheaper and although we lived about 12 miles away, the round trip was worth it. Even sitting through the army checkpoints was worth it.

In recent years the fuel on this side of the went considerably cheaper. The stations on the other side shut down while stations on our side sprang up. They could hardly meet the demand. there were guys making a mint from the people in the north coming across to fill up. And driving good distances to do so.

Joe 90 wrote: »

Which is in fact a good thing about partition. Can you imagine what it would be like if the border wasn't there? Either government could raise tax on fuel or anything else to whatever it liked without having to worry about people just popping across the border to spend their money.

Sorry mods not meant as any sort of political post, just pointing out the way things are.

How does the "border" stop us now? In reality there is no border crossing any more. When STG was strong a couple of years ago the northerners came across in droves to take advantage. When the euro is strong the opposite happens. Sure, wasn't half of Dublin going up the motorway to Newry 2 Christmases ago to do all their shopping?

BTW Even when there was a border there (with manned customs points) we still brought stuff across from the North.

Repolho

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Why unworkable? Because you say so? QUOTE]

Can't be done because we have free movement of Goods & Services throughout the EU.

dr.fuzzenstein

Repolho wrote: »

Why unworkable? Because you say so? QUOTE]

Can't be done because we have free movement of Goods & Services throughout the EU.

Yep, kind of the the bedrock and most basic and first and foremost foundation the EU is founded upon.
Along with the free movement of people.

Owen

Hypothetically - and I'm no EU trade lawyer - you could certainly buy your petrol up North and run your car on it - nothing would stop you doing it, but if you were then checked down here and it was a different colour, you wouldn't be paying for Motor Tax - hence breaking locally administered tax laws. Doesn't prohibit you buying your petrol elsewhere, but you're still liable to adhere to the local taxes.

I'm sure I'm reading far too simply into that though, and I'm probably wrong.

billyboy01

vectra wrote: »

All this bickering over road tax..And this is only the start of it..For the life of me I cannot understand how fine Gael are tops to get in.. Leave FF in there I say.. at least we have a GOOD idea as to where we stand..

Back to the big car small car..Emission based / CC debate.. I could never understand the system and never will.

Take for example a 1.6 opel vectra and a 2.o liter vectra.. is one paying road tax to use the road or is it paying Tax on engine size?? it is called road tax isnt it?

I agree 100%
abolish road tax and tax fuel..
Drive more = pay more
Drive less = pay less.

That sounds very like Road Pricing! Big Brother, State monitoring my travel and journey patterns, 10quid(with regular price hikes) to go over to my mates in the next district!

NO THANK YOU!:eek::mad:

stephendevlin

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Hypothetically - and I'm no EU trade lawyer - you could certainly buy your petrol up North and run your car on it - nothing would stop you doing it, but if you were then checked down here and it was a different colour, you wouldn't be paying for Motor Tax - hence breaking locally administered tax laws. Doesn't prohibit you buying your petrol elsewhere, but you're still liable to adhere to the local taxes.

I'm sure I'm reading far too simply into that though, and I'm probably wrong.

Sure if ya went up north for the day do you "not fill your car" for the fear of breaking a law in the south? it wouldnt work on many levels.
I agree about taxing fuel its like that in Jersey UK.

Only way to do it is to agree with the north to do the same and have the same setup. only way it would work.

Joe 90

Satanta wrote: »

I have seen two shifts in my lifetime so far. When I was a kid, I remember the family heading into Strabane every weekend to fill the car up at the petrol station across the border. Almost everyone did it. The stuff was so much cheaper and although we lived about 12 miles away, the round trip was worth it. Even sitting through the army checkpoints was worth it.

In recent years the fuel on this side of the went considerably cheaper. The stations on the other side shut down while stations on our side sprang up. They could hardly meet the demand. there were guys making a mint from the people in the north coming across to fill up. And driving good distances to do so.



How does the "border" stop us now? In reality there is no border crossing any more. When STG was strong a couple of years ago the northerners came across in droves to take advantage. When the euro is strong the opposite happens. Sure, wasn't half of Dublin going up the motorway to Newry 2 Christmases ago to do all their shopping?

BTW Even when there was a border there (with manned customs points) we still brought stuff across from the North.

I didn't mean the border stops anyone buying what they want where they want, aprt from cars with the dreaded VRT. I meant that it prevents either government having a hugely greater tax on any product than the government across the border.