Protein % in rations

Miller80

Whats the exact benefits of higher % protein ration? at last discussion group meeting the protein % varied from 18% to 22%.

The guys selling the nuts are always pushing the higher protein nuts or ration!

I am currently feeding an 18% nut but will drop down to 16% when out full time and might look at lower than 16%.

reilig

Miller80 wrote: »

Whats the exact benefits of higher % protein ration? at last discussion group meeting the protein % varied from 18% to 22%.

The guys selling the nuts are always pushing the higher protein nuts or ration!

I am currently feeding an 18% nut but will drop down to 16% when out full time and might look at lower than 16%.

I could have this backwards so correct me if I'm wrong. Is it not recommended to give a high protein feed to younger cattle which will encourage bone and muscle growth and then a lower protein feed to cattle that you are trying to put weight onto and finish ???

or perhaps its the other way around??

Currently feeding an 18% protein to weanlings. Don't finish cattle. Try to buy the ration with the highest protein that I can afford.

Don't feed nuts - only feed meal that I know and can identify the ingredients of.

pakalasa

When you are finishing you need ENERGY not PROTEIN!
You dont even need minerals.

Protein is for growing cattle, increasing frame. You dont really need it for finishing cattle so better to reduce protein % nearer teh end. Protein is expensive, thats why weanling ration is always dearer.
Barley is a good source of energy. Here's a good article on rations, from 2008 but still valid.
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/2008/09.../feature.shtml

Miller80

sorry I didnt explain my situation cleary, Im talking about nuts/meal for dairy cows not for cattle so apologies for that.

jeff greene

What is the rest of diet? I feed soya separate, but keep total diet to 16.5%, extra protein will push milk but may lead to more bodyweight loss. The source of the protein is more important, the last thing you need with grass or high protein grass silage is more soluble protein, bypass protein is needed and soya is best.

Miller80

Just grass silage and cows are out for 3/4 hrs the last few days.protein is low in the silage, i think its only 11%.

Im concerned about cows losing condition and milking heavy, would prefer less milk if cows were in good condition and easier to get back in calf.
some cows milking 35-40 litres on 8kg of 18% nut grass and grass silage but are thinner than i would like.

Thanks jeff, have to say you know your stuff.

dar31

Miller80 wrote: »

Whats the exact benefits of higher % protein ration? at last discussion group meeting the protein % varied from 18% to 22%.

The guys selling the nuts are always pushing the higher protein nuts or ration!

I am currently feeding an 18% nut but will drop down to 16% when out full time and might look at lower than 16%.

alot of people just buy a nut based on the % protien but never look at the ME of the nut
will always buy as near to 11me as possible, min 10.5me
they can put in what ever kind of muck they want to push up the % protien. the quality of the protien is inportant.
rapemeal is good up to about 14/16% after that soya is the best form.
would usually only buy an off the shelf nut for buffering at grass, usually get a tailor made blend

in simple terms,the higher the protien the more a cow will milk,
the greater the enegry the more condition she will put on.

around xmas, 2 weeks into bulling there was alot of silent heats and low bulling activity, was getting a bit concerned so i increased the % mz in the diet, this reduced the over all protien and increased the enegry, with in the week you could see the difference in activity.

Dunedin

dar31 wrote: »

, 2 weeks into bulling there was alot of silent heats and low bulling activity, was getting a bit concerned so i increased the % mz in the diet, this reduced the over all protien and increased the enegry, with in the week you could see the difference in activity.

my cows (suckler) have slipped back about 2-3 weeks on calving this year (not sure why but that's for another day).

am thinking of ideas of gettign them back on track for next year.

would you recommend the hi energy nut to be worth the expense.

Miller80

I also heard recently its important to know the ufl of the feed as well.

dar31

Dunedin wrote: »

my cows (suckler) have slipped back about 2-3 weeks on calving this year (not sure why but that's for another day).

am thinking of ideas of gettign them back on track for next year.

would you recommend the hi energy nut to be worth the expense.

not that well up on sucklers, but i would certinally give it a try for a while and see how well they cycle, if a cow has a lump of a calf on her, and there is only enough enegry in the diet for maintaince and milk, then there wont be enough left over for the cow to go in calf.
is a high enegry one more expensive. some nuts are nothing but fillers and you would be better of with good silage.
a low me meal is a bit of a false economy.

jeff greene

I love the term High Energy in meal, who want low energy meal, forget high energy and look for high quality ingredients, maize meal, rolled wheat, barley, soya, rape, beetpulp, soya hulls. Nothing else is needed and you can’t go wrong, I buy custom blends for most of the year and anytime I get a standard nut, I’m always disappointed.

ME is ok as a guide but you have to look to see where its coming from, Distillers is 14.8 ME but it oil(11%) thats giving it that, soya is 13.6 ME but only 2.4% oil. Starch is a better guide to energy.

At the moment I’m getting a 50% wheat, 25% maize, 25% soya mix for maidens at €282 from Kerry

reilig

Dunedin wrote: »

my cows (suckler) have slipped back about 2-3 weeks on calving this year (not sure why but that's for another day).

am thinking of ideas of gettign them back on track for next year.

would you recommend the hi energy nut to be worth the expense.

A good few of mine had slipped back last year. This year many of them are carrying to a Belgian Blue AI (those that were fit to take BB) with an average gestation period of 281 days which should recover a week or 2 for each of them.

Proper minerals is the most important thing for to have a cow cycling early after calving. I'll be giving all trace bullets to all cows when going to grass. I don't feed nuts or ration to cows (unless like last year when I was short on silage).

kfk

jeff greene wrote: »

I love the term High Energy in meal, who want low energy meal, forget high energy and look for high quality ingredients, maize meal, rolled wheat, barley, soya, rape, beetpulp, soya hulls. Nothing else is needed and you can’t go wrong, I buy custom blends for most of the year and anytime I get a standard nut, I’m always disappointed.

ME is ok as a guide but you have to look to see where its coming from, Distillers is 14.8 ME but it oil(11%) thats giving it that, soya is 13.6 ME but only 2.4% oil. Starch is a better guide to energy.

At the moment I’m getting a 50% wheat, 25% maize, 25% soya mix for maidens at €282 from Kerry

Prepare yourselves. Daft question coming. Do feed mills usually make up custom blends in nut form? I have always ordered an off the shelf nut.

jeff greene

kfk wrote: »

Prepare yourselves. Daft question coming. Do feed mills usually make up custom blends in nut form? I have always ordered an off the shelf nut.

They will do it whatever way you want, I always get it in coarse form

Bodacious

dar31 wrote: »

not that well up on sucklers, but i would certinally give it a try for a while and see how well they cycle, if a cow has a lump of a calf on her, and there is only enough enegry in the diet for maintaince and milk, then there wont be enough left over for the cow to go in calf.
is a high enegry one more expensive. some nuts are nothing but fillers and you would be better of with good silage.
a low me meal is a bit of a false economy.

Our sucklers were slow enough in coming bulling last year also eventhough on v good grass, strip grazed etc but a neighbour was telling me to give them dairy nuts and it definitely kick started them, 2 days in had 3 bulling together. So are the regular dairy nut high in ME?

Nutcase

jeff greene wrote: »

I love the term High Energy in meal, who want low energy meal, forget high energy and look for high quality ingredients, maize meal, rolled wheat, barley, soya, rape, beetpulp, soya hulls. Nothing else is needed and you can’t go wrong, I buy custom blends for most of the year and anytime I get a standard nut, I’m always disappointed.

ME is ok as a guide but you have to look to see where its coming from, Distillers is 14.8 ME but it oil(11%) thats giving it that, soya is 13.6 ME but only 2.4% oil. Starch is a better guide to energy.

At the moment I’m getting a 50% wheat, 25% maize, 25% soya mix for maidens at €282 from Kerry

Should people not be looking at the NE in feedstuffs, this I thought was the actual energy that went towards maintenance and then whats left over after maintenance goes towards production?