Senior Staff/Nurse currently get paid 37.5% more by HSE than a 3 year qualified nurse

nursextreme

The S.S.N. or Senior Staff Nurse Grade of staff nurse is attained by having 20 years service alone, and is not based on either
Qualifications, ie; Degrees, Masters or other further education.
Ability
Merit
The Senior Staff Nurse mostly can be seen at night, and therefore often earns far more in come than their superior nurse managers @ CNM1 & CNM2 Levels.

37.5% figure is based on an average working year 6 months days 6 month nights, including Sunday Premiums but excluding Bank Holiday,Saturday and evening premiums.

A S.S.N. is also currently entitled to 3 more days annual leave in the year.

This grade of Senior Staff Nurse is what the Unions and Croke Park agreement are protecting by keeping an embargo in place. While newly qualified are forced abroad after costing €85000 each to educate.

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Ste.phen

37.5% doesn't seem like a big gap, are those figures correct? because I get the impression your point is that they're overpaid, but the salary difference there doesn't seem that significant

nursextreme

Ste.phen wrote: »

37.5% doesn't seem like a big gap, are those figures correct? because I get the impression your point is that they're overpaid, but the salary difference there doesn't seem that significant

Its the difference between €55000 and €40000 per annum, it pretty significant to me when I cant get a job. Figures are as accurate as possible with in 1% and include are based on current rates. One could work all nights and do some overtime and that would bump up the figures. Overtime is a lot scarcer than it was a few years back and before the pay cut when a Senior Staff nurse could earn up to €80000 a year.

Beano

I'm confused. Are you are complaining that somebody with 20 years experience gets paid more than you do? that sounds quite reasonable to me. Or is your problem that you have a degree and they dont?

jimmycrackcorm

I don't understand the complaint but I'd say that 20 years experience in a job is worth a hell of a lot more than a newbie straight out of college with a degree/masters in any professional job.

wmpdd3

No politically is going to touch the front line nurses while there are so many 'administrators'.

mikemac

With 20 years experience, they are lot more valuable then a new hire who has just qualified.

nursextreme

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't understand the complaint but I'd say that 20 years experience in a job is worth a hell of a lot more than a newbie straight out of college with a degree/masters in any professional job.

You don't understand nursing who does the work and who sits in the office, and I never mentioned straight out of college - I said 3 years didn't I, you professional know it all!!!!!!!!!

nursextreme

Beano wrote: »

I'm confused. Are you are complaining that somebody with 20 years experience gets paid more than you do? that sounds quite reasonable to me. Or is your problem that you have a degree and they dont?

Degree is not the issue, its being up to date with current knowledge that counts, my point is that there are nurse out there who haven't a clue and are just milking out the last few years creaming off as much money from night duty and overtime to boost there pensions. Twenty years experience is fine if your knowledge isn't twenty years out of date.

Irish_Elect_Eng

nursextreme wrote: »

Degree is not the issue, its being up to date with current knowledge that counts, my point is that there are nurse out there who haven't a clue and are just milking out the last few years creaming off as much money from night duty and overtime to boost there pensions. Twenty years experience is fine if your knowledge isn't twenty years out of date.

God help the people that have to work with you, You obviously know it all.

While I am sure that there are people in the health service that are putting in their time waiting for their pensions, that is the same in every walk of life. Believe me there are far more freshly qualified graduates out there "who haven't got a clue" than there are 20 year veterans with that problem. But it is much the same in most industries, there is little appreciation for those that have gone before and laid the foundations in any field..

Your comments show a distinct lack of empathy with your fellow professionals, I hope that you have a greater empathy with your patients.

Irish_Elect_Eng

For your reference, in industry the gap is much wider. Taking three different engineering disciplines with our organisation the difference in wages between a 3 year graduate and a 20 year veteran in the same role would be +85% - +135%.

nursextreme

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

God help the people that have to work with you, You obviously know it all.

While I am sure that there are people in the health service that are putting in their time waiting for their pensions, that is the same in every walk of life. Believe me there are far more freshly qualified graduates out there "who haven't got a clue" than there are 20 year veterans with that problem. But it is much the same in most industries, there is little appreciation for those that have gone before and laid the foundations in any field..

Your comments show a distinct lack of empathy with your fellow professionals, I hope that you have a greater empathy with your patients.

Empathy with our patients goes with out question. In relation to the rest of your post - a new era has begun and with the mess this country is in currently how could we have respect for the veterans of the last number of decades who have laid the foundations of its destruction. I'm not pointing the finger of blame at the hard workers that do exist in every industry, but its my generation and subsequent ones who will have the responsibility of reviving this sick country.

nursextreme

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

For your reference, in industry the gap is much wider. Taking three different engineering disciplines with our organisation the difference in wages between a 3 year graduate and a 20 year veteran in the same role would be +85% - +135%.

I presume in engineering the carrying of dead wood is not as common.:D

nursextreme

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Check out this new thread at least before commenting!! Thanks

kmick

To put the figures in context if you earn €45000 then the senior nurse earns €61875 or an increase of €843.75 a year over 20 years. Considering a GP earns nearly 200k before he sees a patient it seems reasonable to me.

BostonB

nursextreme wrote: »

Empathy with our patients goes with out question......

Have to say you get the impression of a distinct lack of empathy from a lot of nurses and doctors. Which is very different than it was years ago. Not that it was perfect years ago either. That said you still meet some who are born to be doctors or nurses, but they stand out because its not a given anymore.

That my personal experience of it anyway.

Theres seems a huge emphasis on paperwork too. Sometimes thats all some staff seem to be doing, is paperwork. Work that perhaps thats done on paper only and not in real life. The stats are great, but its not reflected in reality.

Oafley Jones

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

For your reference, in industry the gap is much wider. Taking three different engineering disciplines with our organisation the difference in wages between a 3 year graduate and a 20 year veteran in the same role would be +85% - +135%.

Ya, I was thinking that 35% isn't much of an increase at all, especially for 20 years experience.

Mrs OBumble

nursextreme wrote: »

Degree is not the issue, its being up to date with current knowledge that counts, my point is that there are nurse out there who haven't a clue and are just milking out the last few years creaming off as much money from night duty and overtime to boost there pensions. Twenty years experience is fine if your knowledge isn't twenty years out of date.

Someone who has 20 years experience is most probably only aged 40-50 ish. I don't know anyone who's "milking out the last few years" in that age group - for most, it's when they're at the peak of their careers.

Irish_Elect_Eng

JustMary wrote: »

Someone who has 20 years experience is most probably only aged 40-50 ish. I don't know anyone who's "milking out the last few years" in that age group - for most, it's when they're at the peak of their careers.

Yes, but you are not seeing it from the OP's youthful outlook where everyone over 30 is decrepit, unqualified and unprofessional :-)

Irish_Elect_Eng

nursextreme wrote: »

Empathy with our patients goes with out question. In relation to the rest of your post - a new era has begun and with the mess this country is in currently how could we have respect for the veterans of the last number of decades who have laid the foundations of its destruction. I'm not pointing the finger of blame at the hard workers that do exist in every industry, but its my generation and subsequent ones who will have the responsibility of reviving this sick country.

Empathy, most certainly does not "go without saying" in our health service.

On a recent short stay in hospital I experienced both sides of the coin, great professionalism and empathy from a very young female nurse who was on-the ball and pig ignorant behavior from a male nurse swanning around more like a air-steward than a nurse. They were both working the same ward on the same shift, but were on different planets.

You can teach methods and protocols, but you cannot teach empathy.

From the tone and content of your posts you do not strike me as someone that is naturally empathetic, if you cannot see things from your co-workers point of view while sharing many of their daily experiences, I cannot see how you could see things from your patients perspective?

BroomBurner

nursextreme wrote: »

The Senior Staff Nurse mostly can be seen at night, and therefore often earns far more in come than their superior nurse managers @ CNM1 & CNM2 Levels.

37.5% figure is based on an average working year 6 months days 6 month nights, including Sunday Premiums but excluding Bank Holiday,Saturday and evening premiums.

If I spent half of my working year working nights, I would be hoping for higher pay too for the anti-social hours.

Your post sounds a little blinded by frustration at the system. I can understand that, but in this case, I think you're going a bit too far.

How do you know that an SSN is not based on merit as well as experience?
Why do you value experience so poorly? Paritcularly for nursing?
How do you know what qualifications the senior nurses have done over their years?
How do you know that the nurses with experience aren't keeping up to date with all the latest knowledge?

Tbh, I wouldn't want to be seen by a nurse with such a presumptious attitude as yours, it would definitely NOT single them out as being open to suggestions that they may be wrong and look what that has brought us in the past...

wmpdd3

The problem is not the pay, the problem is the inability of the health service to performance manage their staff.

You train,
You get job,
You cover ass,
You retire.

I have friends who I employed in retail for a few years while they trained and they said they were more nervous of an annual review then than their bosses now.