Pz Myers: Feminism video?

smiles302

The blog: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/02/feminist_hypersensitivity_or_m.php

And the video he says to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBuYUJ4YCEI

Can anyone hear the panel discussion? Or know why they've blocked it out with music?

I'm female, atheist (and physics student ) and would definitely walk out of a discussion if they called women the weaker sex.

Is there any way to hear what was said?

This post: http://www.blaghag.com/2011/02/when-gender-goes-pear-shaped.html just made me so upset/angry.

strobe

smiles302 wrote: »

This post: http://www.blaghag.com/2011/02/when-gender-goes-pear-shaped.html just made me so upset/angry.

Because of all the over the top strawmanning and major persecution complex of the author?

Turtwig

Just curious Strobe, have you seen the meeting yet? Or are you going on this blog post?? I know the original blag hag post is very emotional so it's most likely strawmanned in places but I very much hope my fellow skeptics wait until watching the video sans la musique before passing a judgement on who's strawmanning .:D

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

If the freethought community doesn't have a problem with sexism, why did I just spend 20 minutes in the bathroom consoling a woman who was publicly insulted when she asked the panel a question about sexism in freethought communities? Note to dudes, it doesn't matter if it is sexism or biology, if you're making people who come to your group uncomfortable, you're doing it wrong. -- Facebook status, Sharon Moss, 1/30/11

seriously, 20 minutes being consoled in a bathroom?

and you're complaining about being called the weaker sex

Turtwig

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

seriously, 20 minutes being consoled in a bathroom?

and you're complaining about being called the weaker sex

Well just saying but I had that problem with a guy once.

strobe

Malty_T wrote: »

Just curious Strobe, have you seen the meeting yet? Or are you going on this blog post?? I know the original blag hag post is very emotional so it's most likely strawmanned in places but I very much hope my fellow skeptics wait until watching the video sans la musique before passing a judgement on who's strawmanning .:D

Neither Malty. I haven't seen the unedited video and I didn't see that blog post till you posted it. I was actually taking the blag hag post at face value as to how the events transpired and basing my remark on that.

"First, the panelists grabbed a theme that had been floating around all weekend: that men hitting on women is just biological {insert strawman here} {(therefore excusable), making it sound like a woman in that kind of situation should just STFU and get over it.}".

Now maybe by saying that men hit on women where ever men and women come together they meant "STFU and get over it" complete with capitalisation and bolding, but probably not, in my opinion.

Then "(we all screamed in our heads, even though the panel never let us say it out loud)". Really you all screamed that in your heads? How do you know what other women there SCREAMED IN THEIR HEADS? What do you mean they never allowed you to say out loud? Did they shout you down? Demand a mike was pulled away from you when you started to talk about it?

"So I wasn’t surprised when the young woman who finally stood up and started challenging the panel snapped. First, despite her having her hand raised for most of the discussion, the panel never even acknowledged her or invited her opinion (despite soliciting the opinion of several guys both on and off the panel. Finally, she just stood up and started shouting to make her voice heard."

From that it sounds to me like a woman stood up and started ranting about something off topic despite not being asked to speak as is the format. Not normally the best way to put your point across at these things?

"Her question focused on the language the panel had been using - “female” instead of “woman,” and pointed out that it made us sound like livestock rather than people."

To me that reads like the woman randomly standing and yelling did a whole "why have you called us 'females' three times now!?!?!?eleven111! Why do you hate women!?!? (I'm paraphrasing from my imagination here of course).

....and it goes on and on like that for the length of the blog post.

If the whole thing went down like Sharon Moss says it went down, then I call strawmanning and persecution complex all over it to be honest.

If the discrepancies that the Angel of Harlots blog points out are accurate then I add disingenuity(sc?) and dishonesty to those charges.

Turtwig

strobe wrote: »

Neither Malty. I haven't seen the unedited video and I didn't see that blog post till you posted it. I was actually taking the blag hag post at face value as to how the events transpired and basing my remark on that.

"First, the panelists grabbed a theme that had been floating around all weekend: that men hitting on women is just biological {insert strawman here} {(therefore excusable), making it sound like a woman in that kind of situation should just STFU and get over it.}".

Now maybe by saying that men hit on women where ever men and women come together they meant "STFU and get over it" complete with capitalisation and bolding, but probably not, in my opinion.

Then "(we all screamed in our heads, even though the panel never let us say it out loud)". Really you all screamed that in your heads? How do you know what other women there SCREAMED IN THEIR HEADS? What do you mean they never allowed you to say out loud? Did they shout you down? Demand a mike was pulled away from you when you started to talk about it?

"So I wasn’t surprised when the young woman who finally stood up and started challenging the panel snapped. First, despite her having her hand raised for most of the discussion, the panel never even acknowledged her or invited her opinion (despite soliciting the opinion of several guys both on and off the panel. Finally, she just stood up and started shouting to make her voice heard."

From that it sounds to me like a woman stood up and started ranting about something off topic despite not being asked to speak as is the format. Not normally the best way to put your point across at these things?

"Her question focused on the language the panel had been using - “female” instead of “woman,” and pointed out that it made us sound like livestock rather than people."

To me that reads like the woman randomly standing and yelling did a whole "why have you called us 'females' three times now!?!?!?eleven111! Why do you hate women!?!? (I'm paraphrasing from my imagination here of course).

....and it goes on and on like that for the length of the blog post.

If the whole thing went down like Sharon Moss says it went down, then I call strawmanning and persecution complex all over it to be honest.

If the discrepancies that the Angel of Harlots blog points out are accurate then I add disingenuity(sc?) and dishonesty to those charges.

Yeah I have to agree with tbh, but I guess I have too much faith in humanity and give far too many people the benefit of the doubt.:o

strobe

Malty_T wrote: »

Yeah I have to agree with tbh, but I guess I have too much faith in humanity and give far too many people the benefit of the doubt.:o

Rookie mistake. Didn't you know? Humanity is inherently broken and sinful. :pac:

Turtwig

strobe wrote: »

Rookie mistake. Didn't you know? Humanity is inherently broken and sinful. :pac:

Wow that's cool the url doesn't show, click the smiley and you'll see what I mean.:) (No, not that (<--) one, THAT one above

strobe

Malty_T wrote: »

Wow that's cool the url doesn't show, click the smiley and you'll see what I mean.:) (No, not that (<--) one, THAT one above

Huh...didn't know you could hotlink (am I using that internet terminology right?) a smiley. Good to know. Think I will start adding them into all kinds of posts I make. They will be like 'hidden tracks' at the end of albums. :cool:

Turtwig

strobe wrote: »

Huh...didn't know you could hotlink (am I using that internet terminology right?) a smiley. Good to know. Think I will start adding them into all kinds of posts I make. They will be like 'hidden tracks' at the end of albums. :cool:

Yep, and I expected a linky inside your "cool" there.:o

Zillah

This is all pretty pointless without the original video. I do find it strange that they're hiding it. Why wouldn't they just leave it up if they're confident about their behaviour.

Turtwig

strobe wrote: »

:cool:

Yep, and I expected a linky inside your "cool" there.

Oooh you sneaky editdevil..

smiles302

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

seriously, 20 minutes being consoled in a bathroom?

and you're complaining about being called the weaker sex

On a topic of were these men sexist, don't you think that's a bit uncalled for?

Ickle Magoo

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

seriously, 20 minutes being consoled in a bathroom?

and you're complaining about being called the weaker sex

Ffs, because one woman crying in a bathroom for 20 mins = no women can complain about being called the weaker sex?! :rolleyes: Sexism, what sexism...

Zombrex

Another person there who takes a different view of what happened.

http://angelofharlots.blogspot.com/2011/02/there-is-lot-of-buzz-going-around-in.html

Seems a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill tbh

Ickle Magoo

She was offended at being called female, rather than women? Seriously? Mountain out of molehill stuff. Asking if she'd prefer women to be referred to as the weaker sex - cringe factor of 10.

Hivemind187

Honestly, sometimes women (or insert your pseudo persecuted group of choice here) are their own worst enemy.

READ OUR MINDS!!! DO ONLY THE THINGS WE LIKE!!! FEAR US - WE CAN BRAND YOU A SEXIST/HOMOPHOBE/RACIST/BIGOT AND TELL OTHER PEOPLE!!!

Heh, reverse McCarthy-ism.

Morag

Sometimes when a group forms that is almost completely male later when women join they are treated as outsiders and are seen as add ons to the group and if the guys are having their discussion need met but the other males in the group they will then respond to the women by not treating them as other participant first and foremost but as women to hit on. It happens. Blaming on biology has to be the worst cop out.

To what extent it's happened with that group it's hard to tell and it sure seems it was mishandled.
It can be a very emotive topic on both sides and a lot of voluntary groups never have a harassment policy in place
and dont' think they need one until something happens and then people have to look at their behaviour and they don't
like doing that and they dont' like drawing up policy so they blame the 'lightening rod'.

If your at such a gathering, your there to discuss and take part in the activities and goals of the group,
it's not the pick up godless chicks group. Why is it that there is always some idiot who doesn't get that?

smiles302

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/02/13/steering-the-conversation-in-the-right-direction/ < A well spoken and rational take from a woman.

I don't think either post was asking people to read minds. Very emotive posts shouldn't be read literally...
She was angry and ranted. Some of it taken literally comes across as nonsense.

If a man punched a pillow in anger, no one would take his actions literally and wonder what the pillow did.

People express anger differently.

Tearing her apart because she didn't react the way you would have ergo her reaction was irrational, says to me you need to act like a man, and react like a man if you want to be part of this group.
IF she was purely reacting to the use of the word female then yes it does come across as a random thing to get upset over.

One crazy person would not be enough to get a community of generally rational thinking people up in arms.

I would note that the speaker didn't ask the crowd if they agreed with the woman. They asked about the word.

I'm not generally an outspoken feminist, if you were in my living room and told me I would definitely lose at xbox because I am of the weaker sex. I would not be offended.
If you shot me down in a public debate, not because of clarity or strength of point but because I am a member of the irrational weaker sex, I would be offended.

Jokes are only funny depending on context.

It's worrying they took the video down, if she was obviously being irrational, the video would speak for itself.