Director Debate No. 2: Woody Allen

johnny_ultimate

Episode 2: He's been working in cinema since the 60s, is still pumping out a film a year, and discourse about his films is often lost in gossip about his private life. This week we discuss the one and only, ever-polarising Woody Allen!

I am mostly for Woody Allen, with some considerable arguments against as well.

Best Film? Hard to pick from a massive filmography. A personal favourite is The Purple Rose of Cairo: not the typical Woody Allen film, but a funny, moving and endearing celebration of going to the cinema. Manhattan and Hannah and Her Sisters are two others I find particularly effective, alongside the deservedly praised Annie Hall. Of the 'early, funny ones' Sleeper definitely got me laughing more than the others.

Worst Film? Equally hard to choose! Of his recent films, Cassandra's Dream is even worse than the overrated Match Point - a poorly paced, unrealistic 'thriller' that has little to offer. Small Time Crooks is another I've always found particularly shrill and irritating, while I couldn't get to the end of Mighty Aphrodite. Luckily, I haven't seen his infamously unsuccessful Bergman homages or his one foray into the musical. I think I'll keep it that way!

I've seen well over twenty Woody Allen films, and even with that there's considerable gaps in my knowledge of the man's work. I've mostly stuck with the acclaimed stuff. There's no denying in my eyes that Allen produced a lot of solid gold during his heyday - from Sleeper to Crimes and Misdemeanors, there are a good ten or fifteen classics in his filmography. His middle class neurosis doesn't appeal to everyone, but few wrote mature, witty rom-coms with the same success as vintage Woody Allen. Manhattan, Annie Hall and many others are all time greats IMO.

But then there's the other half of his filmography - the unsuccessful experiments, the disappointments and the outright failures. While there are things to like about his recent films - he still has a way with picking cast members - I personally am always put off by the overly unrealistic dialogue (oh, how many times has a Woody Allen character used the words "make love" in conversation?) and his regular failures at recapturing what makes his old films so successful. There's no escaping that Anything Else and Whatever Works (thank Larry David that that one is still at least entertaining) are poor photocopies of his most beloved films. But then there's the outright awful ones. Cassandra's Dream is one of the worst films I've seen in years, and many others of his films - contemporary and otherwise - just don't succeed in what they set out to do.

He's still capable of making a good film - Sweet and Lowdown and Vicky Christina Barcelona (although that might be just down to casting Rebecca Hall, Scarlett Johansson and Penelope Cruz in the same film) being the most endearing of his 'contemporary' output IMO. But most of his recent films aren't anywhere near the standard of his 70s and 80s stuff. That said, the man still has more classics than the vast vast majority of other directors, and even though I'm not a fan of his recent films, I still consider myself a Woody Allen fan.

So: do you like him, hate him or "like his films except for that nervous fella who's always in them?".

Mickeroo

AS you said Sweet and Lowdown and Vicky Christina..... are really good movies out of his recent ones and I'm of the opinion Annie Hall is a true classic, but i'm not sure if i've seen many of his other movies at all. I do find him very funny though and his nuerotic acting style is somewhat endearing to me! (could be in a minority there)

Ive never been a big Woody Allen fan, while he has made some good films at this stage his misses out weigh his hits. The last decade has seen him make some of the worst films around, the only thing making any of Allen's modern work tolerable at this stage are the performances.

I find Allen's dialogue reminiscent of Tarantino's, unrealistic and self indulgent. Also like Tarantino I don't rate Allen as much of an actor, he has given some decent performances but more often than not he's the weakest link acting wise.

Bodhidharma

I think he's an incredibly talented man, and even if I dont watch all his movies I am glad there are people like him that have shaped the histoy of cinema.

He is genuinely unique, intelligent and treats cinema goers with respect by giving them something to think about.

I personally liked Everything you wanted to know about sex . . ., Sleeper, Annie Hall and Manhatten.

To be honest my favourite thing of his is 'The Complete Prose' which is a collection of his short stories which is hilarious.

johnny_ultimate

With all the 'private life' stuff and his recent films, it's easy to forget the man was once brilliant and why he's so well known. His stand-up is priceless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmnLRVWgnXU

Contrast it to his latest collection of essays - a pretentious, unreadable mess, alas!

He reminds me of Clint Eastwood - admirable that they're still giving it socks, but their films aren't up to standard anymore. But as I said, I'd rather choose to ignore his new stuff, because I genuinely think 'vintage' Woody Allen is in a world of its own.

Although I do have tickets to see You Will Meet... this day next week. I don't know why I put myself through it anymore

H8GHOTI

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

....He reminds me of Clint Eastwood - admirable that they're still giving it socks, but their films aren't up to standard anymore. ..

Strange comparison imo.
Clint Eastwood has made some very good films over the last 10 years. Highly rated, oscar nominated films and a couple of wins for Million Dollar Baby.

delbertgrady

Favourite Films: Annie Hall, Hannah and Her Sisters, Love and Death, Manhattan, Manhattan Murder Mystery
Worst Films: Cassandra's Dream, Match Point, Vicky Cristina Barcelona

I love Woody Allen, but I freely admit that his recent form has been very inconsistent. Personally, I thought Scoop was a riot, and I was surprised it didn't get proper distribution in the UK and Ireland, not least for the Hugh Jackman/Scarlett Johansson dynamic, which would presumably have appealed to a lot of non-Woody fans. I also thought Whatever Works was good fun, and was even more enjoyable on a second viewing.

However, the three I mention above as his weakest are truly abysmal, and they've all come out in the last six years. Not even Rebecca Hall could salvage Vicky Cristina Barcelona, and I can't understand why so many people rate it. It was Allen on autopilot, and if anything, provided more ammunition for the anti-Woody brigade than any film he's ever made.

Obviously, the "earlier, funnier" films always spring to mind when trying to think of his best work - Annie Hall is in a league of its own, but Love and Death must surely be his highest joke ratio.
More (slightly) bittersweet fare like Manhattan and Hannah and Her Sisters are equally worthy, and Manhattan Murder Mystery is a cracking comedy thriller in its own right. Husbands and Wives probably ranks as his best "serious" film.

The bottom line is, love or hate the guy, is that he's probably the only active director that actors will queue up to work with, whatever the size of the role, and whatever the salary, and the diversity of his casting (from Will Ferrell to Jodie Foster, Jason Biggs to Anthony Hopkins) is testament to this. His workrate - like Clint Eastwood's - is ludicrously efficient, and the reaction to his Oscar appearance in 2002 was one of the warmest receptions in recent years.

Also, while the same themes and situations tend to be reprised in his work, this doesn't change the fact that there are always several superb gags in his films, even the "weaker" recent ones, and for a guy of his vintage, this is no mean feat.

"And he that hath clean hands and a pure heart is OK in my book. But he that fools around with barnyard animals has got to be watched". (1975)

mike65

He used to be funny didn't he?

I can't be sure which is the most recent Allen film I've watched, I suspect it was the one with Diane Keaton that was considered part of a return to form about 15 years ago - Manhattan Murder Mystery and that was a complete soufle of a film. Crimes and Misdemeanors was the last great Allen film I've seen. The whole farrago with his adopted daughter and Mia Farrow killed him as a creative artist it seems, though he had plenty of flat-spots before then - A Midsummer Nights Sex Comedy, Stardust Memories, in fact his whole Bergman "homage" canon.

Top 5

Sleeper
Love and Death
Annie Hall
Hannah and her Sisters
Crimes and Misdemeanors

bubbling under

Zelig
Broadway Danny Rose

duckworth

Easily the Director I've seen the most films by - and there are very few I didn't like. Only really Melinda & Melinda, Mighty Aphrodite, and the really awful Cassandra's Dream were bad. The rest range from amusing little films to absolute masterpieces.

My Faves:

1. Manhattan
2. Husbands and Wives
3. Annie Hall
4. Crimes And Misdemeanors
5. Stardust Memories
6. Deconstructing Harry
7. Hannah and her Sisters
8. Purple Rose of Cairo
9. Match Point
10. Sweet and Lowdown

Unlike some of the others above - I think he's had a resurgence of late. Vicky Christina Barcelona was funny and charming - and I though Match Point was a brilliant reworking of the Crimes and Misdemeanors style film. Also, Scarlett Johannson is hotter than hot in that one.

He's also one of the very few directors who has truly invented his own genre (however on the flip-side, this has led to the proliferation of the real arse-end of the Hollywood canon - the rom-com).

Anyway, he can't be held responsible for that. An absolute legend and hero.

johnny_ultimate

H8GHOTI wrote: »

Strange comparison imo.
Clint Eastwood has made some very good films over the last 10 years. Highly rated, oscar nominated films and a couple of wins for Million Dollar Baby.

Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of Clint's films over the last couple of years. They just seem extremely conservative and occasionally out of touch IMO. Just a personal opinion though, and in fairness his recent film's are often much more watchable - or less outright awful - than Allen's.

On Vicky Christina Barcelona: I liked it, but didn't like a lot of things about it. The cast were excellent, and the playful tone and setting were a nice departure for Allen. It did, though, feature some dreadful dialogue, everytime Hall spoke particularly didn't seem like it was a real person talking, or at least not one I should care about. I enjoyed it though, mostly because it was more carefree than most contemporary Allen pictures, and Cruz and Bardem impress acting wise. Plus, plenty of eye candy

Warper

Never really liked his films, comes across as too self-indulgent bordering on condescending.