So you are voting Fianna Fail - Who are their Stars and Whats their Appeal

CDfm

I don't know about you but I haven't heard that Fianna Fail supporters have become disenfranchised. This isn't an FF bashing thread.

I am not an FF member nor do I know any FF politicians. The opposite really I once was at a conference for two days with Bernard Allen the FG TD from Cork. A nice and genuine guy and I hold him in high regard.

A friend if mine was involved in a campaign with a voluntary organisation and was having problems getting information from the Department of Education. Anyway, she met Willie O'Dea at the filming of Questions & Answers explained her problem and he told her that he would get copies of what she needed and to come to his office the folowing day , which she did, and he gave her his copies.

In fact, I have heard some very touching stories about how each of them helped people who were going thru tough times.

So I can't really see much difference between them as people and they came accross to me as honest and decent.

Brian Lenihan, stayed at his post while very ill. Henry Kenny , Enda's dad did something similar in 1975.

So who are the Fianna Fail politicians we should take note of. If you are an FF fan or like a particular person - you should not be afraid to say it.

Liam Byrne

CDfm wrote: »

So I can't really see much difference between them as people and they came accross to me as honest and decent.

You mentioned O'Dea. You do know what he did during the last election campaign, right ? Is that "honest and decent" ?

CDfm wrote: »

Brian Lenihan, stayed at his post while very ill. Henry Kenny , Enda's dad did something similar in 1975.

Irrelevant. He's either able/capable/competent for the job or he's not. And his track record shows that he's not.

bdeb

They are all 'falling stars' and all will be noted in history as the party who voted Ireland into oblivion and banished democeracy.

CDfm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You mentioned O'Dea. You do know what he did during the last election campaign, right ? Is that "honest and decent" ?

I also mentioned Bernard Allen, and, what I am saying is that they were very kind to people going thru difficult times. Exceptionally so.

Their supporters have a right to put their reasons forward.

bdeb wrote: »

They are all 'falling stars' and all will be noted in history as the party who voted Ireland into oblivion and banished democeracy.

And then you have this bdeb

DeVore wrote: »

This, unfortunately, isnt born out in the numbers.

The single largest demographic for FF supporters is 18-24.

A lot of people are simply restating their personal beliefs and biases as accepted truths (not having a go, its a generally human thing to do). I'm putting my faith in the law of big numbers.

DeV.

Some people are going to vote Fianna Fail and I would like to hear what they have to say.

oppenheimer1

bdeb wrote: »

They are all 'falling stars' and all will be noted in history as the party who voted Ireland into oblivion and banished democeracy.

Banished democracy? I suppose this election is just all in my imagination then? :rolleyes:

CDfm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Banished democracy? I suppose this election is just all in my imagination then? :rolleyes:

I don't imagine it is fun being a Fianna Fail public representative right now.

The Northern Ireland peace process long forgotten.

Their supporters will of course vote and give transfers to others too.

Some candidates will get elected and could even hold the balance of power.

Sibylla

I think most people are going to find voting for FF a challenge after their scandalous mismanagement of the finances. I know I wouldn't. In terms of public appeal Martin is an improvement on Cowen but over all I don't think the general public are buying it. FF had very loyal voters for a long time some of them will still support them.

Mr.Micro

Sibylla wrote: »

I think most people are going to find voting for FF a challenge after their scandalous mismanagement of the finances. I know I wouldn't. In terms of public appeal Martin is an improvement on Cowen but over all I don't think the general public are buying it. FF had very loyal voters for a long time some of them will still support them.

Even FF loyal supporters are feeling the pinch and many have lost big money as well. FF may well need to change Martin as well as leader in the next few years as he will always be synonymous with bringing the country to its knees after having such a boom for so long it is unforgivable.

CDfm

So who are the spokespeople and how do they rate versus the competition.

It has not been all bad news

FF attacks FG over taxation




Fine Gael policies are not a low tax party and their hidden charges will damage the economy, the Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has alleged.
In a wide-ranging attack at a Fianna Fáil news conference this morning, Mr Lenihan claimed that Fine Gael’s policy would damage economic growth, as they contained many unspecified stealth taxes.

“Fine Gael portray themselves as low tax economy. But they have hidden taxes every where else. In local government there is a large amount of unspecified charges and a lack of clarity.”

On several occasions at the conference, Mr Lenihan repeated his claim that Fine Gael’s policy reflected not the political reality but what its focus groups were saying.

“It is giving this Focus group illusion that Fine Gael is a low-tax party,” he said. He also said that the continuing row between Fine Gael and Labour over their respective financial plans gave rise to deep concern.

“This Government has already implemented adjustments of €20 billon. Fine Gael and Labour are having a squabble abut the remaining €10 billion,” he said.

Asked was it too late for Fianna Fáil, Mr Lenihan responded that the next week would be crucial. “I do accept the point that signs of recovery are clear and compelling but we are [only] at the beginning of a recovery. That has political implications,” he said.

He also said that Fianna Fáil faced a very difficult challenge in Dublin “There are great difficulties for the party in putting the message across and explaining the position. Our candidates are fighting very hard,” he said.
The Ministers claimed his party’s policy of €15 billion cuts over four years was the only fully costed plan for recovery. “It is focused solely on the achievement of sustainable economic growth,” he said. “It has not been designed around voter appeal. It is realistic and it is credible. Our programme in the next Dáil will be the implementation of the plan.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0218/breaking67.html

Kenny shows exactly what he means about a social partnership

It is fairly straightforward.

Anyone who reads John Bruton's comments from January should not be very surprised.

The Unions though have lost the plot

FG targets deep cuts in public sector

Fine Gael leder Enda Kenny at a press briefing today to launch the party's plan for jobs and economic growth. Photograph: Cyril Byrne / The Irish Times


The Irish Times takes no responsibility for the content
or availability of other websites

HARRY McGEE, Political Correspondent
Fine Gael has targeted deep cuts in public sector numbers, higher Dirt taxes on savings, and the sell-off of State assets in its pre-Budget submission, which it has said can achieve €6 billion in savings.
Party leader Enda Kenny and finance spokesman Michael Noonan launched the party’s budgetary proposals for 2011 in Dublin this morning. The document also includes Fine Gael’s perspective of the Government’s four-year austerity plan, and outlines how it can achieve the €15 billion reduction in the exchequer deficit.
It also includes a stimulus element, which the party claims can create 100,000 jobs. The €6 billion remaining in the National Pension Reserve Fund, plus some other budgetary measures, would provide the funding for growth and jobs, it said.
One of the most controversial proposals – and one that is seen as having implications for the Croke Park agreement – is the party’s proposal to seek a total of 30,000 redundancies in the public sector, some 18,000 more than is provided for in the Government’s four-year austerity plan.
The party also says it will seek additional payroll savings of 1 per cent each year in the public sector, from reducing overheads on overtime, sick leave, flexitime, special allowances and expenses.
“A failure by organisations to deliver these savings could lead to a suspension of pay increments in these organisations as part of periodic reviews of the Croke Park agreement,” it said.
Mr Kenny said that the IMF has "put the country into kindergarten” as it now had wide powers of oversight and review of the Irish economy.
Mr Noonan said that contrary to recent comments, he did not believe the country was "banjaxed”.

And this- Kenny clashes with the Unions after they back Labour

The Unions loose the plot -they like being social partners

irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Friday, February 18, 2011, 11:27Kenny in row over union comments

Ictu general secretary David Begg: called on Fine Gael to withdraw remarks

Related

The Irish Times takes no responsibility for the content
or availability of other websites

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny is to contact the general secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, David Begg in a bid to resolve a row about comments on "vested interests".
Congress has asked that the line on the party’s website and election material referring to Fine Gael taking on the “vested interests including builders, developers, bankers and trade unions” be removed.
Mr Begg said he was surprised and couldn’t understand it as congress has had quite “good relations with the party for many years”.
He said that he wrote to Mr Kenny and was still awaiting a response, pointing out that if the line meant a Fine Gael government would “enter into a prolonged period of confrontation” with the organisation then he had “a duty to bring that to the attention of our members.”
“I think that if you make a charge like that against what is the biggest civil society organisation on the island of Ireland you need to have some basis for making the charge otherwise you should withdraw it," Mr Begg said.

And NAMA has a success

Nama to have €1bn cash after repaying senior bonds ahead of schedule




SIMON CARSWELL Finance Correspondent
THE NATIONAL Asset Management Agency (Nama) will have cash reserves of €1 billion after it repays €250 million on bonds held by the banks and a €49 million loan advanced by Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan.
The biggest beneficiary of the repayments ahead of schedule will be State-owned Anglo Irish Bank, which will receive about €100 million, followed by almost fully nationalised AIB, which will receive about €75 million.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0218/1224290139517.html

Something tells me things are hotting up.

CDfm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Even FF loyal supporters are feeling the pinch and many have lost big money as well. FF may well need to change Martin as well as leader in the next few years as he will always be synonymous with bringing the country to its knees after having such a boom for so long it is unforgivable.

It remains to be seen. Jack Lynch made a comeback.

Speculators expect to loose money. They won't blame FF for Lehman Brothers. Builders and boom/bust go together.

The Croke Park Agreement must look very attractive to public service workers today.

If I was a public service worker I would be livid at the turn of events.

So who to throw your hat in with Labour or FF or the Independents.

Mr.Micro

CDfm wrote: »

It remains to be seen. Jack Lynch made a comeback.

Speculators expect to loose money. They won't blame FF for Lehman Brothers. Builders and boom/bust go together.

The Croke Park Agreement must look very attractive to public service workers today.

If I was a public service worker I would be livid at the turn of events.

So who to throw your hat in with Labour or FF or the Independents.

What FF have done is unprecedented and it as a party will be in unchartered waters. The debt crunch is only just starting....not sure if we have even made the first payment to the IMF/EU. FF should accept the blame and take full responsibility and maybe then in time the party may get some support but it will have to be earned and the party will REALLY need to change, and I cannot see that happening.

bardcel

Burn the bondholders. Burn ‘Em. They gambled they lost. **** ‘Em. HAVE NONE OF THESE POLITICIANS ANY BALL ANY GONADS??? I LOST MY JOB **** YOU!!! GIMME MY JOB BACK YOU ROBBING LYING CONNIVING ***** **** YOU!!!

CDfm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

What FF have done is unprecedented and it as a party will be in unchartered waters. The debt crunch is only just starting....not sure if we have even made the first payment to the IMF/EU. FF should accept the blame and take full responsibility and maybe then in time the party may get some support but it will have to be earned and the party will REALLY need to change, and I cannot see that happening.

If you compare the Irish situation to the other EU joiners like the PIGS (acronym for Portugal Ireland Greece & Spain) some might say it is a mixture of the Euro and socialism.

For example

Greece to stay in recession for 3rd straight year
















By ELENA BECATOROS, Associated Press Elena Becatoros, Associated Press – Tue Feb 15, 10:55 am ET
ATHENS, Greece – Greece's economy will shrink by about 3 percent or more this year, the central bank predicted Tuesday, meaning the country would wallow in recession for a third straight year as it battles to recover from its devastating debt crisis.
Greece avoided bankruptcy last year due to a three-year, euro110 billion ($150 billion) international bailout loan package from other European Union countries using the euro and the International Monetary Fund. In return, the Socialist government has been implementing unpopular austerity measures, including raising taxes, cutting public sector salaries and overhauling labor legislation.
Gross domestic product "is expected to fall by about 3 percent in 2011, without ruling out a larger reduction," the Bank of Greece said in its monetary policy report.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_greece_financial_crisis

The world does not stop at dail eireann and Ireland relies on external investment.

Some of the answers and some of the problems were outside our control.

Our senior civil servants have proved themselves to be economic illiterates as did the Board of the Central Bank (gratuituos dig at David Begg of SIPTU & Deirdre Purcell).

Sibylla

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Even FF loyal supporters are feeling the pinch and many have lost big money as well. FF may well need to change Martin as well as leader in the next few years as he will always be synonymous with bringing the country to its knees after having such a boom for so long it is unforgivable.

I agree with this, Martin, Coughlan, Lenihan, Hanifan etc ruining the country is the defining moment in their political careers. The party will need to go through serious reformation in the next few years to ever have a hope of being elected again. Losing public favour and trust is difficult to come back from. Personally detest FF and Martin campaigning like he was never involved in each decision which broke the country down, not to mention his creation of the HSE. It's strange to think he is the most popular leader, It's vital Irish people remember politics is not a likability contest. Being likable does not determine any future assurance of doing a good job.

K-9

CDfm wrote: »

If you compare the Irish situation to the other EU joiners like the PIGS (acronym for Portugal Ireland Greece & Spain) some might say it is a mixture of the Euro and socialism.

Probably more Banking and Socialism. Greece and Portugal just lived beyond their means, so did we, but lack of checks and regulation caused the banking problems. Spain hasn't had near the same problems with it's banks due to better regulation.

bdeb

Yes oppenheimer, as was Lisbon 1 and the right of of the people to have a say on the IMF being brought in. When even our elected reps. didn't know about it: 'Nor before the members of the cabinet knew about it. Democeracy died when the elected representatives could not or were afraid to follow their own consciences in all matters pertaining to rational reason. Democeracy died when 'not knowing' became an acceptable excuse for Government ministers and Banished when FFail totally rejected the will of the Irish people by not having an election sooner.

CDfm

Our banking system really was a product of a home grown bubble

Lending
But the report by the Central Bank Governor Patrick Honohan pointed out that the banking crisis was caused by excessive land and property lending by the Irish banks themselves. He firmly said the failure of Lehman Brothers on Wall Street, which sent financial markets into a panic, was "not decisive".


Excessive
It said the banking system here was very vulnerable because of their excessive property lending to a small number of developers.
"Serious stress in the financial system was almost unavoidable -- even if the Lehman Brothers' event had not administered a huge shock to liquidity," it said. And it said that a "soft landing" for the banks was unlikely if there was a slowdown in the property sector in particular.
"Ireland's banking crisis bears the clear imprint of global influences, yet it was in crucial ways 'home-made'," it said.
Last March, Mr Cowen referred to Lehman Brothers when he was attacked by the opposition for his handling of the banking crisis.

It wasn't caused by the collapse of Lehman Brothers but that did not help matters.

It is not too unlike the Tulip Bulb Bubble in Holland in the 1600's .

However, how can you rely on an independent Central Bank report when your Business Partners in the Social Partnership are sitting on the board. Any of the non affiliated to union political parties would be nuts to try to deal with them.

Phase 2 of the problem was the intransagence of the Public Sector Unions. A key vested interest.

In some situations there is enough blame to go around.

K-9

Lehman's was the straw that broke the camel's back, it could have been anything.

CDfm

bdeb wrote: »

Yes oppenheimer, as was Lisbon 1 and the right of of the people to have a say on the IMF being brought in. When even our elected reps. didn't know about it: 'Nor before the members of the cabinet knew about it. Democeracy died when the elected representatives could not or were afraid to follow their own consciences in all matters pertaining to rational reason. Democeracy died when 'not knowing' became an acceptable excuse for Government ministers and Banished when FFail totally rejected the will of the Irish people by not having an election sooner.

Irrespective of what happened. The constitution lays down the rules on calling elections and those rules were followed.

Democracy is working in respect of elections.

Where democracy has not been seen to work is that the Government who is the Executive have not been able to exercise their authority over the Public Service. In effect, the Civil & Public Service has been operating autonomously.

Part of the importance in this election is that some political parties and some independent candidates are saying they want the Government as Executive to have those powers back.

If people wanted to talk about democracy , a more crucial time was joining the Euro.

The Treaty of Rome establishing the EEC is very clear in its opening statement

DETERMINED to establish the foundations of an ever closer union among the European peoples,

http://www.ena.lu/

You don't sign up to a Treaty like that and expect to go your own way and we signed up to that in 1973.

We can say that a small country doing a deal with bigger countries get treated unfairly.

What was the alternative secede from the EU. ???

It is increible that the Trade Union Movement , an unelected "Social Partner" would have the audacity to try to influence the outcome of elections.

Shea O'Meara

CDfm wrote: »

I don't know about you but I haven't heard that Fianna Fail supporters have become disenfranchised. This isn't an FF bashing thread.....

So who are the Fianna Fail politicians we should take note of. If you are an FF fan or like a particular person - you should not be afraid to say it.

I met a Cork lad a few weeks back, through some Scottish friends. They were discussing the economy. The Cork lad said, "Fianna Fail will pull us out of this." One of the Scots began to state why in his belief FFail had caused it, the Cork lad was adamant it was 'the world banks' as he put it. He also said 'No, No" in relation to any facts put forward, ending with, 'My father and Grandfather were Fianna Fail men....", at which point I walked away.
This chap didn't strike me as well to do and I don't believe he was related to any of the guiding lights, but if Dev himself came back from the dead and told him to vote FG or Labour, he'd still vote FFail.

I don't get it, but there you go.

nesf

Will give FF a preference, though definitely not first. Other option would be giving it to Sinn Fein or similar which (given my politics) isn't really an option.

Not that I expect my vote to transfer for so long to actually make it to a FF TD to help them get in or anything.


Then, I'm weird in that while I feel strongly that FF need a good long term in Opposition I've no real hate for the party (my dislike is solely focussed at certain individuals in it).

Nehaxak

My voting decision as it stands currently is Dessie Ellis from SF first preference and second preference going to Pat Carey in FF.
I'm giving second pref to FF only because I think the third seat will be a contest between Bill Tormey of FG, Lyons of Labour and Pat Carey of FF. I dunno who the other muppet is from FG that's ranked third in the Boards poll, that's clearly been fiddled by his supporters :rolleyes:

CDfm

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

..", at which point I walked away.
This chap didn't strike me as well to do and I don't believe he was related to any of the guiding lights, but if Dev himself came back from the dead and told him to vote FG or Labour, he'd still vote FFail.

I don't get it, but there you go.

You need to read Dail Stars

http://www.terracetalk.com/picks/15/Dail-Stars--From-Croke-Park-to-Leinster-House

And Ned O'Keefe was bang on when he said

Who there in Cabinet ever bought a bale of hay?

http://www.thejournal.ie/ned-okeeffe-there-were-too-many-intellectuals-in-government-2011-2/

People might laugh at Ned O'Keefes analysis but who foresaw the troubles in Northern Ireland in 1968 or the Easter Rising on Good Friday 1916.

Eschewing Fine Gael’s proposals for the country’s economy, O’Keeffe said that while there is no tradition of military coups in the State’s recent history, “if the government that goes in doesn’t work out, people will be very annoyed and upset”.

His comments were made in Cork East where Sinn Fein have developed a lot of support and were a what if the incoming govt fcuks up and things get a whole lot worse scenario.For example, if the IMF were called in.

Like its not as if revolution or armed insurrection or terrorism ever happened here.

So while Ned O'Keefe may not be an intellectual and the guy in the pub may not be an intellectual he did make a valid point that extremeism can take off in extreme situations and history can repeat itself.



Did John Redmond foresee 1916.

Now if an intellectual like Garret Fitzgerald made the points that Ned O'Keefe made it would have gotten a serious hearing.

Ned may never write a political theory book and he may liken the economics of the state to the prudent running of a farm and that makes sense to me. And I am a qualified Economist. Garret Fitzgeralds by comparison never does.

Dont you think that some ordinary people think like Ned O'Keefe and that some ordinary people get what he is saying.

Now as it happens, I dont nesscessarilly agree with Ned O'Keefe but I have read enough history books to know that given the right circumstances these things happen. He knows that too.