Question about CIDs

sitstill

Just hoping some of the more experienced teachers would be able to help with this.

A CID is given when a teacher has 4 years experience in a school is my understanding.

So, if in a teacher's first year, their hours came from curricular concessions, year 2 and 3 they were from secondment and year 4 they were from maternity leave -- would that teacher then be entitled to a CID? Thanks

rainbowtrout

sitstill wrote: »

Just hoping some of the more experienced teachers would be able to help with this.

A CID is given when a teacher has 4 years experience in a school is my understanding.

So, if in a teacher's first year, their hours came from curricular concessions, year 2 and 3 they were from secondment and year 4 they were from maternity leave -- would that teacher then be entitled to a CID? Thanks

No because they are not your hours. Maternity leave and secondment belong to other teachers. They have to be your own timetabled hours. You can be on back to back maternity leaves for 10 years and you still are not entitled to a CID. The years must also be consecutive. So if you had your own hours for the first two years, then there was a cut in allocation and you lost your job but ended up back in the school for a third year but on a secondment/maternity, you are back to zero again. If then a contract came up in what is your fourth year in the school and it was your own hours again that would be your 'year one' as you had a break in your service in your third year.

peanuthead

You can do anything in your first 3 years, but that 4th year has to consist of not only hours of your own, but contracted hours of your own.

rainbowtrout

peanuthead wrote: »

You can do anything in your first 3 years, but that 4th year has to consist of not only hours of your own, but contracted hours of your own.

No the first three years have to be your own as well. Four years in a row of your own hours are the conditions for a CID. A friend of mine was in a position in a school for 7 years but it was a secondment and when all the cuts were implemented in 2009 the teacher returned from secondment and he was gone.

gaeilgegrinds1

Reading through career break info...is a CID the same as permanency for that purpose? Has anyone been refused a career break lately?

floating voter

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No the first three years have to be your own as well. Four years in a row of your own hours are the conditions for a CID. A friend of mine was in a position in a school for 7 years but it was a secondment and when all the cuts were implemented in 2009 the teacher returned from secondment and he was gone.

Incorrect! Read page 18 of link below.
http://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/Astir_May_01.pdf

The status in the fourth year is all important.

peanuthead

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No the first three years have to be your own as well. Four years in a row of your own hours are the conditions for a CID. A friend of mine was in a position in a school for 7 years but it was a secondment and when all the cuts were implemented in 2009 the teacher returned from secondment and he was gone.

floating voter wrote: »

Incorrect! Read page 18 of link below.
http://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/Astir_May_01.pdf

The status in the fourth year is all important.

Yeah, I'm of the same opinion as floating voter here, having said that, my info also came from ASTI, unless they are wrong? Rainbowtrout seems to have a bit of experience behind him/her.

Can anyone else clear this up?

rainbowtrout

floating voter wrote: »

Incorrect! Read page 18 of link below.
http://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/Astir_May_01.pdf

The status in the fourth year is all important.

I'm still not incorrect. That specific case outlines a teacher's position where she was TWT for 2 years and then RPT for 2 years. The teacher she replaced then resigned, so essentially what happened is that the hours that she covered for the teacher on leave of absence for the first two years were backdated and became her own. She then continued in an RPT capacity following that and quite rightly was awarded a CID.

Had the teacher returned after two years rather than resigning it would have provided a very different scenario.

We have a woodwork teacher in our school. He started his first year covering a sick leave for a teacher, who subsequently retired at the end of that school year without every returning to the school. He has continued in that job for 2 more years including the current school year. As the other teacher retired without ever coming back the first year he was covereing sick leave will be counted as his own hours and is reckonable for continuous unbroken service and for CID status at the end of his fourth year in the school. This was confirmed at a TUI meeting I was at last year.


My original point was also not incorrect. Maternity leaves etc are not reckonable for CID status.


http://www.tui.ie/Fixed_Term_ContractsContracts_of_Indefinite_Duration/Default.171.html

From circular 56/08

2.2 In pursuant of this Act, agreement under the auspices of the Teachers Conciliation Council has now been reached on persons comprehended under par 1.5 above. In accordance with the FTW Act Par 9.1 outlined above and on an entirely exceptional basis the employer shall issue a contract of indefinite duration to any such member of the staff whose initial employment commenced before 7th September 2006 and who satisfies the following conditions;

(i) s/he is registered with the Teaching Council

(ii) s/he has had in excess of 4 years continuous service, excluding any period of secondment, in the same post (those employed for the first time after 14th July 2003 must have two or more successive contracts of employment) with the same employer that were paid for out of monies provided by the Oireachtas,

unless s/he is excluded by reason of one or more of the following

 s/he is the subject of a disciplinary procedure (i.e. there are formal written disciplinary charges of a significant nature against the teacher on grounds of misconduct or other serious disciplinary offences) or

 s/he is covering for a teacher or employee absent on an approved scheme of leave of absence and such a ground was set out as an objective ground in writing in the previous contract or

 the post will not be viable within a reasonable period and such a ground was set out as an objective ground in writing in the previous contract

peanuthead wrote: »

Yeah, I'm of the same opinion as floating voter here, having said that, my info also came from ASTI, unless they are wrong? Rainbowtrout seems to have a bit of experience behind him/her.

Can anyone else clear this up?

her

I'm not always right, but I was union rep last year and spent an awful lot of time sorting out a woeful mess with CIDs in my school.

Essentially it boils to down to: If a teacher is on leave of absence and comes back, the hours are not yours. If the teacher is on leave of absence and never comes back (resigns/retires) those hours completed are yours.

floating voter

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No the first three years have to be your own as well. Four years in a row of your own hours are the conditions for a CID. A friend of mine was in a position in a school for 7 years but it was a secondment and when all the cuts were implemented in 2009 the teacher returned from secondment and he was gone.

I was responding to above. You can be doing anything for first 3 years and if you get a fixed term contract on your own hours you have a cid.

The OP is not entitled to a cid because 4th year is a maternity.