Urgent Redundancy Question.

MagicMarker

Redundancies are happening in work today, there’s a chance I may be ‘’asked’’ to move to a different office which is really not an option for me for a number of reasons. If I refuse to move offices and they don’t accommodate me with a position here do they have to give me redundancy? This is all assuming that I’m not made redundant myself first off.

Thanks all!

gerrycollins

If you are asked to move office but it is not within reason then they have to offer you redundancy if that is currently happening within your company however your reasons must be valid ie excessive distance to travel or unreasonable increase in traveling expense or a major impact on your family life etc.

You cannot just decide you don't want to move if it's offered as your employer is making every effort to keep you in a job

MagicMarker

Basically there's no free parking at the new office, and I can't afford to pay street parking for 8+ hours a day, and I can't get the bus as the commuting time would be too long and I have college in the evenings.

Eoin

MagicMarker - the main question is not so much the location (within reason), but whether it's the same role or not. Both my current and previous employers enforced an office move on the staff and we just had to go with it. Both offices were in Dublin but on opposite sides of the city, but it didn't become a redundancy situation for people who it didn't suit.

Hope it all works out OK today.

mp3kid

MagicMarker - How did this go for you ?

I've been put in a similar position.

I was told on the first of this month that my position was being made redundant. So I'd finish up on the 31st. HR drafted a letter to me and signed it etc.

I wasn't sure how I felt at first, but eventually saw all the positives in it, so i felt ok with it.

FFWD to yesterday, I got a call to say my position is now NOT being made redundant.

Now they want me to respond by COB to take the job in the new office which adds 33Km to my journey.

Should i still be eligible for redundancy ?

I feel like I'm being messed around by HR tbh.

Eoin

I don't know if there's a definitive answer. Is the job the same one, but in a different location? Both my current company and old company moved locations (about 20kms away in one case), and taking redundancy was not an option.

Are the locations in the same county (not that I know if that makes a difference!)?

Newaglish

If there's a substantial change in location then a redundancy situation does still arise - give NERA a quick buzz just to be sure as it's a bit subjective so I don't know what does or doesn't qualify. I imagine 33km would qualify though.

mp3kid

Eoin wrote: »

I don't know if there's a definitive answer. Is the job the same one, but in a different location? Both my current company and old company moved locations (about 20kms away in one case), and taking redundancy was not an option.

Are the locations in the same county (not that I know if that makes a difference!)?

Newaglish wrote: »

If there's a substantial change in location then a redundancy situation does still arise - give NERA a quick buzz just to be sure as it's a bit subjective so I don't know what does or doesn't qualify. I imagine 33km would qualify though.

Thanks guys.

They're now saying that the role is the same one, but in a new location.

The offices are within the same county (just about)

It would be a 70Km round trip each day

www.employmentrights.ie says if an employee "unreasonably refuses" a suitable offer of employment, he will not be entitled to a redundancy payment.

There's no explanation of whats "reasonable" criteria on which to refuse.

I called NERA, the lady i spoke to said 10-15 miles would be a reasonable limit, but couldn't link or refer to any legislation.

Eoin

I had a quick look on the NERA website and citizensinformation.ie, but it doesn't mention anything at all about changing offices being a redundancy situation - but perhaps it's covered in a different area.

I don't think it would be unreasonable to refuse an extra 33km drive twice a day, but as you said, there doesn't seem to be anything that defines what this means.

I think at the very least, you need to buy some time to think about it, and possibly try and talk to someone who can help you more definitively. Giving you 2 days to decide is pretty unreasonable.

I'd start by reading your contract and terms of employment very closely.

Newaglish

Redundancy generally occurs where you lose your job due to circumstances such as the closure of the business or a reduction in the number of staff. The reason could be the financial position of the firm, lack of work, reorganisation within the firm or it may be closing down completely.

Redundancy can occur where one of the following things happen:

Your employer ceases to carry on business or ceases to carry on business in the place where you have been employed. (For example, if the firm moves location, this can be a substantial change in your working conditions and may therefore be a reason for redundancy. However if there is a change of ownership under the transfer of undertaking legislation where employees are re-employed with no change to their working conditions then it is not a redundancy situation.)

The above is the only interpretation that I can find (from citizensinformation). From reading the Acts, the provisions for disentitlement to redundancy based on the refusal to accept alternative employment seem to refer to the alternative employment being in the same place. It sounds like acceptable distances are something to be judged by the LRC or EAT. You could always contact a solicitor but I think your first port of call is to just tell your employer that it's not a suitable alternative and that you consider it to be a genuine redundancy situation as they are no longer carrying on their business at that location.