Misuse of Seanad Facilities?

nc6000

Just received a FF flyer this morning in a Seanad Eireann envelope which I'm presuming was franked in Leinster House all at a cost to the taxpayer and not FF.

There was zero chance of me voting for FF anyway but it got me pretty annoyed as I reckon he is abusing the Seanad facilities.

Am I right in recalling that using Oireachtas facilities for canvassing etc is not allowed?

Aside from contacting him directly, who can I complain to?

SalteeDog

The comptroller and auditor general perhaps?

http://www.audgen.gov.ie/

Q. Will the C&AG investigate a particular matter raised by a member of the public ?

A. The C&AG will consider all circumstances involving an abuse of public funds, brought to his attention by members of the public. Whether a particular matter warrants investigation or examination as part of the normal financial audit, will depend on the particular circumstances of the case, its materiality and the evidence available to substantiate the circumstances surrounding the alleged abuse of public funds.

gerrycollins

also are the incumbant TD's not supposed to use their oireachtas.ie TD's email addresses during an election as many of those are posting their email addresses on their leaflets?

Liam Byrne

nc6000 wrote: »

Just received a FF flyer this morning in a Seanad Eireann envelope which I'm presuming was franked in Leinster House all at a cost to the taxpayer and not FF.

There was zero chance of me voting for FF anyway but it got me pretty annoyed as I reckon he is abusing the Seanad facilities.

Am I right in recalling that using Oireachtas facilities for canvassing etc is not allowed?

Aside from contacting him directly, who can I complain to?

I got the same last time out in the local elections.

Basically FF will pull every stroke possible and don't give a crap that we're footing the bill.

The Ivor Callelys of this world will probably dispute the rules that prevent this by claiming that the wording implied that if Frank didn't post it, then it was OK.

Tragedy

Shane Ross has been sending out letters using seanad eireann envelopes. I'm sure he's not alone.

But of course, it's only FF who ever do anything bad. Right?

Liam Byrne

Tragedy wrote: »

Shane Ross has been sending out letters using seanad eireann envelopes. I'm sure he's not alone.

But of course, it's only FF who ever do anything bad. Right?

He's running himself, right ?

So while I wouldn't be overly impressed by the above, because we can't afford it, his correspondence is at least related to him and not to party propaganda.

Tragedy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

He's running himself, right ?

So while I wouldn't be overly impressed by the above, because we can't afford it, his correspondence is at least related to him and not to party propaganda.

But you've posted two billion times(slight exaggeration, maybe only 7-800 times) that we should vote for the party and not the candidate, so why does it suddenly make a difference when it gives you an excuse to bash FF? Oh wait, nevermind

Also, the OP didn't explicitly state that the flyer wasn't for a particular candidate - I'd be extremely surprised if it was a general FF leaflet(especially as FF are minimizing the party and maximizing the candidates exposure).

Liam Byrne

Tragedy wrote: »

But you've posted two billion times(slight exaggeration, maybe only 7-800 times) that we should vote for the party and not the candidate, so why does it suddenly make a difference when it gives you an excuse to bash FF? Oh wait, nevermind

Also, the OP didn't explicitly state that the flyer wasn't for a particular candidate - I'd be extremely surprised if it was a general FF leaflet(especially as FF are minimizing the party and maximizing the candidates exposure).

That's nowhere near the point that I was making, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and try to rephrase.

Ross is involved in the election as a candidate.

Unless there's an FF senator running for election as a TD then that senator has no reason WHATSOEVER to send out election correspondence.

Victor

www.sipo.ie

PomBear

It's deemed unconstitutional by Kelly v Minister for the Environment [2002]

Niall Ó Brolchain and Fidelma Healy Eames have apparently been doing this too

Tragedy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's nowhere near the point that I was making, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and try to rephrase.

I know it wasn't the point you were trying to make, I was just pointing out how you were twisting and turning in the breeze of 'whatever I can say to make FF look crap'
There is a dissonance between consistently arguing "The individual is meaningless, vote party" and then arguing "Sending out candidate electoral material is ok, sending out part electoral material isn't".

Ross is involved in the election as a candidate.

But not as a candidate for the Seanad, so your point is moot. He's using his office to canvas for something unconnected to it.

Unless there's an FF senator running for election as a TD then that senator has no reason WHATSOEVER to send out election correspondence.

A senator has no reason whatsoever to send out election correspondence full stop.

Victor

Tragedy wrote: »

But not as a candidate for the Seanad, so your point is moot. He's using his office to canvas for something unconnected to it.

Irrelevant, anyone doing this is using state money to boost his chances of election.

Liam Byrne

Tragedy wrote: »

I know it wasn't the point you were trying to make, I was just pointing out how you were twisting and turning in the breeze of 'whatever I can say to make FF look crap'

I am not "twisting and turning in the breeze", so drop the attitude posts, please.

I was pointing out that it wasn't a case of comparing like with like (which is usually what FF try when they're twisting and turning in the breeze to get away with / deflect from stuff).

I also said that I wasn't impressed with Ross doing it, and that's a sad day because he's the best of our politicians and he's already blurring the line of what's acceptable.

Tragedy wrote: »

There is a dissonance between consistently arguing "The individual is meaningless, vote party"

I never said the individual is meaningless. What I said was that an individual who doesn't vote with his conscience or to represent those who vote for him is meaningless.

I also regularly point out that I completely disagree with parties for that very reason.

So I have no idea why you're attributing the above statements to me.

Tragedy wrote: »

and then arguing "Sending out candidate electoral material is ok, sending out part electoral material isn't".

Both are objectionable (as I said), however using our cash to send out begging letters for "the party" is more objectionable to me than someone sending out letters for something the individual is actually involved in.

But not as a candidate for the Seanad, so your point is moot. He's using his office to canvas for something unconnected to it.

Tragedy wrote: »

A senator has no reason whatsoever to send out election correspondence full stop.

But an election candidate has. So as both, Ross has a slightly higher moral ground. However (again, I repeat, as I said) it is still unimpressive and shows a dodgy level of what's "acceptable".

Tragedy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I was pointing out that it wasn't a case of comparing like with like (which is usually what FF try when they're twisting and turning in the breeze to get away with / deflect from stuff).

It's close enough as to be meaningless. Senator misuses postal facilities to send out electoral material versus Senator misuses postal facilities to send out electoral material. Fairly like with like to me.

Both are objectionable (as I said), however using our cash to send out begging letters for "the party" is more objectionable to me than someone sending out letters for something the individual is actually involved in.

But not as a candidate for the Seanad, so your point is moot. He's using his office to canvas for something unconnected to it.



But an election candidate has. So as both, Ross has a slightly higher moral ground. However (again, I repeat, as I said) it is still unimpressive and shows a dodgy level of what's "acceptable".

I don't see the distinction between misusing oirechtas postal privileges to send personal electoral material and party electoral material. I suspect there wouldn't be a distinction if Shane Ross was an FF member(and that's not aimed at you, it's aimed at posters in general).
In the past, GP Senators have had the smackdown layeth for doing exactly this.