Petrol Prices

BuzzFish

Not sure is this was discussed before but why are all the Petrol Stations in Naas usually on average 5c per litre more expensive than the garages in Newbridge. Most of the time they are even more expensive than the stations no the N7.

Has anyone ever prompted consumer watch that there may well be a cartell going on? Applegreen seem to be the only exception but again Carragh is always cheaper than their station in Naas town.

Rabidlamb

There's one of the garages in Newbridge that used be way cheaper than the cartel.
It forced everyone down as far as I remember.
Don't live there anymore.

Magilla Gorilla

Naas has always been dearer for petrol, as far as I can see. I work there, but I NEVER buy petrol there. Maybe it's all the well-heeled ladies who shop in the lovely boutiques that Naas is famous for who buy it!.

Rochie IRL

I live in Naas and I agree it can be more expensive than Say Kilcullen or Athy. It seems to be it gets more expensive the closer you get to Dublin. According to http://www.pumps.ie/ Applegreen in Carragh was the cheapest but it switched to Naas lately. I am only talking about Diesel prices actually. I suggest using the above link before you fill your car.

Le_Dieux

BuzzFish wrote: »

Not sure is this was discussed before but why are all the Petrol Stations in Naas usually on average 5c per litre more expensive than the garages in Newbridge. Most of the time they are even more expensive than the stations no the N7.

Has anyone ever prompted consumer watch that there may well be a cartell going on? Applegreen seem to be the only exception but again Carragh is always cheaper than their station in Naas town.

I am no expert when it comes to this topic, but I would say that Newbridge has the 'McLoughlin's' factor determining the prices of fuel in the Newbridge area.

gsxr1

its gone mad. I now walk the kid to school and back everyday. Saves those short runs. And healthy.

Sallins is cheap at the moment for petrol. Who knew?

Dempo1

Was in NAAS on thursday, the prices are exactly the same in Tullamore. The best price i have seen this week was Mighty Mols in Mountrath @ 1.41 today, Birr is next @ 1.42

Gregsor

Mcloughlins and Brennans(Maxol) in Newbridge seem to be fiddling with the prices over the last few weeks and mostly on a Sunday

Down to around 1.39 for unleaded,some of the other filling stations followed suit last week but all is back to normal now,is there no law for competition at all?

I'd swear they are in a price negotiated stand between the owners,terrible....

larooney

What doesn't help in Naas is the fact that the same bloke runs both Maxols. I think the rest just row in with the prices set there and maybe drop theirs by a cent or so.

91011

Gregsor wrote: »

Mcloughlins and Brennans(Maxol) in Newbridge seem to be fiddling with the prices over the last few weeks and mostly on a Sunday

Down to around 1.39 for unleaded,some of the other filling stations followed suit last week but all is back to normal now,is there no law for competition at all?

I'd swear they are in a price negotiated stand between the owners,terrible....

Maybe if you understood petrol pricing and the way its made up / displayed, you'd have a diifferent view.

Petrol Pricing is THE MOST transparent and open priced product in this country - bar none!
It MUST be dislayed by law in large size at entrance to the station and every cent of the price of petrol can be broken down with information available widely on the internet. - No other business has such transparency in their prices.

I have zero conections in fuel, yet I can show in 2 minutes how at todays price of €1.43, no more than 4c of this goes to the garage. (This pays rent, rates, electricity, staff, credit card fees etc)

Current refinery price = 54c (available on many energy websites)
Current duty & levies = 59.6c (revenue.ie)
Total = 113.6
Vat on tis @ 21% = 23.85c
Total before retail & distribution costs = 137.5

So actual cost before ANY distribution / retail cost is applied is 137.5

Expect to see 149.9 on the forecourt very soon, as the industry average for distribution / retail is 10c / litre (12.1c incl vat) (137.5+12.1 = 1.496)

chiefbrody1974

91011 wrote: »

Maybe if you understood petrol pricing and the way its made up / displayed, you'd have a diifferent view.

Petrol Pricing is THE MOST transparent and open priced product in this country - bar none!
It MUST be dislayed by law in large size at entrance to the station and every cent of the price of petrol can be broken down with information available widely on the internet. - No other business has such transparency in their prices.

I have zero conections in fuel, yet I can show in 2 minutes how at todays price of €1.43, no more than 4c of this goes to the garage. (This pays rent, rates, electricity, staff, credit card fees etc)

Current refinery price = 54c (available on many energy websites)
Current duty & levies = 59.6c (revenue.ie)
Total = 113.6
Vat on tis @ 21% = 23.85c
Total before retail & distribution costs = 137.5

So actual cost before ANY distribution / retail cost is applied is 137.5

Expect to see 149.9 on the forecourt very soon, as the industry average for distribution / retail is 10c / litre (12.1c incl vat) (137.5+12.1 = 1.496)

tesco finglas "149.9" per litre as of yesterday. funny thing is, its the most expensive on that road or in finglas and has been for a while!! are the irish substituting the lower prices being charged in the UK. we do it with the tesco groceries so why shud they not screw us with petrol too!!! Dont buy in tesco!!! go elsewhere for your juice...

Dempo1

91011 wrote: »

Maybe if you understood petrol pricing and the way its made up / displayed, you'd have a different view.

Petrol Pricing is THE MOST transparent and open priced product in this country - bar none!
It MUST be displayed by law in large size at entrance to the station and every cent of the price of petrol can be broken down with information available widely on the internet. - No other business has such transparency in their prices.

I have zero conections in fuel, yet I can show in 2 minutes how at todays price of €1.43, no more than 4c of this goes to the garage. (This pays rent, rates, electricity, staff, credit card fees etc)

Current refinery price = 54c (available on many energy websites)
Current duty & levies = 59.6c (revenue.ie)
Total = 113.6
Vat on tis @ 21% = 23.85c
Total before retail & distribution costs = 137.5

So actual cost before ANY distribution / retail cost is applied is 137.5

Expect to see 149.9 on the forecourt very soon, as the industry average for distribution / retail is 10c / litre (12.1c incl vat) (137.5+12.1 = 1.496)

I'm intrigued with this assessment also to be found on other threads. Whilst the formula would on the surface make sense, the question begs as to why numerous garages across the country engaged in quite disgraceful profiteering in the week leading up to the last infamous budget. Essentially what occurred was garages sneakily putting from 4/8 cent on a Litre of petrol in the days leading to the budget, then the government kindly added the expected 4 cent. The Dogs in the street knew what was going on.

I am also intrigued as to know why it was back in 2007/8 when a barrel of oil reached $180 a barrel, pump prices never reached the outrageous prices they are today. In other threads poor operators sought sympathy explaining they don't achieve much profit from the pumps, instead they depend on sale of deli and other shop items, "God bless them"

I once thought it was the distributors acting the maggot but its becoming all to clear there are cosy cartels in operation in rural towns the length and breath of the country.

Finally, it is most curious has to how some garages can raise and decrease prices on a whim, I doubt very much refining and other related cost fluctuate on a daily or weekly basis.

Garages are acting the bollox, its really as simple as that and I rate NAAS/NEWBRIDGE/ TULLAMORE as the greatest offenders. Just yesterday i traveled to Birr and filled up @ €1.41.

As for forcourts having to display their prices? Hmmm, that make the kick in the teeth all the more unpalatable.

BuzzFish

91011 wrote: »

Maybe if you understood petrol pricing and the way its made up / displayed, you'd have a diifferent view.

Petrol Pricing is THE MOST transparent and open priced product in this country - bar none!
It MUST be dislayed by law in large size at entrance to the station and every cent of the price of petrol can be broken down with information available widely on the internet. - No other business has such transparency in their prices.

I have zero conections in fuel, yet I can show in 2 minutes how at todays price of €1.43, no more than 4c of this goes to the garage. (This pays rent, rates, electricity, staff, credit card fees etc)

Current refinery price = 54c (available on many energy websites)
Current duty & levies = 59.6c (revenue.ie)
Total = 113.6
Vat on tis @ 21% = 23.85c
Total before retail & distribution costs = 137.5

So actual cost before ANY distribution / retail cost is applied is 137.5

Expect to see 149.9 on the forecourt very soon, as the industry average for distribution / retail is 10c / litre (12.1c incl vat) (137.5+12.1 = 1.496)

I understand this and have seen it broken down many many times. My original point is that Petrol in Naas is almost always higher than the surrounding towns. When fuel goes up, Naas stations are the first to jump. When fuel prices come down, Naas stations are the last to come back. This has been a trend for a long time now.

91011

BuzzFish wrote: »

I understand this and have seen it broken down many many times. My original point is that Petrol in Naas is almost always higher than the surrounding towns. When fuel goes up, Naas stations are the first to jump. When fuel prices come down, Naas stations are the last to come back. This has been a trend for a long time now.

Applegreen in Naas always seem cheapest - but the station is so bloody small, that after 3 cars its difficult to get into.

In Newbridge you have Mc Loughlin, Byrne, Brennan & Fraser who fight tooth & nail for maket share. All independent retailers who have a sever dislike for each other in bsuiness terms, 3 of whom want you to come in and buy a sanwich / newpaper / coffee & Mc Loughlin who would have a 1c / 2c advantage as he is also a fairly big player in oil distribution, supplying farms & industrial users.

Brennans & McLoughlin also benefit from a fair few motorists coming off the motorway just to get fuel.

The TOP station at the other end of the town along with Toughers, don't really get involved and their prices would be very similar to Naas.

91011

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

tesco finglas "149.9" per litre as of yesterday. funny thing is, its the most expensive on that road or in finglas and has been for a while!! are the irish substituting the lower prices being charged in the UK. we do it with the tesco groceries so why shud they not screw us with petrol too!!!

UK prices are higher than Irish prices for both petrol (current av. uk price £1.34 / €1.58) and diesel (uk = £1.37 / €1.62)

BuzzFish

91011 wrote: »

Applegreen in Naas always seem cheapest - but the station is so bloody small, that after 3 cars its difficult to get into.

In Newbridge you have Mc Loughlin, Byrne, Brennan & Fraser who fight tooth & nail for maket share. All independent retailers who have a sever dislike for each other in bsuiness terms, 3 of whom want you to come in and buy a sanwich / newpaper / coffee & Mc Loughlin who would have a 1c / 2c advantage as he is also a fairly big player in oil distribution, supplying farms & industrial users.

Brennans & McLoughlin also benefit from a fair few motorists coming off the motorway just to get fuel.

The TOP station at the other end of the town along with Toughers, don't really get involved and their prices would be very similar to Naas.

So my point stands then really. There is no competition in Naas between most of the garages (applegreen being the exception). This could suggest a cartell.

3ndahalfof6

91011 wrote: »

Maybe if you understood petrol pricing and the way its made up / displayed, you'd have a diifferent view.

Petrol Pricing is THE MOST transparent and open priced product in this country - bar none!
It MUST be dislayed by law in large size at entrance to the station and every cent of the price of petrol can be broken down with information available widely on the internet. - No other business has such transparency in their prices.

I have zero conections in fuel, yet I can show in 2 minutes how at todays price of €1.43, no more than 4c of this goes to the garage. (This pays rent, rates, electricity, staff, credit card fees etc)

Current refinery price = 54c (available on many energy websites)
Current duty & levies = 59.6c (revenue.ie)
Total = 113.6
Vat on tis @ 21% = 23.85c
Total before retail & distribution costs = 137.5

So actual cost before ANY distribution / retail cost is applied is 137.5

Expect to see 149.9 on the forecourt very soon, as the industry average for distribution / retail is 10c / litre (12.1c incl vat) (137.5+12.1 = 1.496)

I know the cost of refining the oil can fluctuate a lot adding to the up and down prices (of course this could be just another spin)

what I don't understand is, if the tanks at the petrol station are filled today at a certain cost, why would the price move up and down as the garage knows what the fuel cost them,

its not like VAT is going up and down every day, once its in the tanks at the garage there is no extra cost supplying that fuel, so its down to the garage to call the price,

I am sure they buy in bulk which would bring their buying down price also.

91011

BuzzFish wrote: »

So my point stands then really. There is no competition in Naas between most of the garages (applegreen being the exception). This could suggest a cartell.

Not a cartel because if it was, they'd charge 10c extra.

The stations in newbridge use fuel as a loss leader to get people into the stores and buy other items, this isn't as much a case in Naas, so costs of runnign the staion must come from fuel.

According to pumps.ie Naas stations are exactly on national average with prices from 1.439 to 1.459 (if it was a cartel, they'd all be at 1.459) wheras in Newbridge it ranges from 1.429 to 1.469, which is about the same.

91011

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

I know the cost of refining the oil can fluctuate a lot adding to the up and down prices (of course this could be just another spin)

what I don't understand is, if the tanks at the petrol station are filled today at a certain cost, why would the price move up and down as the garage knows what the fuel cost them,

quoted refinery prices are available on hundreds of websites - prices changes constantly. Today the price has risen 2%, tomorrow they may fall 1%, next day they may fall again or rise again.

Most busy garages get 3 deliveries a week, so prices can change 3 times a week.


And before you ask
Yes, I know a lot about this, cos when I had feck all to do a few years ago, I looked into the pricing and have been an oil price anorack ever since.

3ndahalfof6

91011 wrote: »

quoted refinery prices are available on hundreds of websites - prices changes constantly. Today the price has risen 2%, tomorrow they may fall 1%, next day they may fall again or rise again.

Most busy garages get 3 deliveries a week, so prices can change 3 times a week.


And before you ask
Yes, I know a lot about this, cos when I had feck all to do a few years ago, I looked into the pricing and have been an oil price anorack ever since.

I think its time to get our own supply of flux capacitors

galwegians

hi athenry the same one petrol station puts the petrol up they all do the same, and allways about 5 cents dearer than any other nearby town.
price fixing at its best.

BuzzFish

Was in down home in Cork the other day. 135.6 in Fermoy. At the same time it was 141.9 in Naas

91011

BuzzFish wrote: »

Was in down home in Cork the other day. 135.6 in Fermoy. At the same time it was 141.9 in Naas

That must be cheapest in country, but has also probably increased today as all deliveries since friday went up by 3c - 4 c and a further 4c - 5c is due next week by my calculations.

You'll be seeing €1.55 next week in many places.

For information, every $10 on the oil price means 6c on at the pumps as the only changing figure is the raw material cost. Refinery, distribution & retail costs stay the same as does duties & levies no matter what price a barrell of oil costs.

approx 160 litres of oil in barrel, (51c € / litre @ $112 / barrel approx 7c €/litre to refine it, 59.6c duties & taxes, 10c distribution & retail and then 21% vat on top of all that. Total = 1.54

Joe Public

Pleading request!:(

Please don't use the word "cheapest" in relation to petrol and diesel prices as they are by no way cheap, try using "least expensive" instead.

BuzzFish

91011 wrote: »

That must be cheapest in country, but has also probably increased today as all deliveries since friday went up by 3c - 4 c and a further 4c - 5c is due next week by my calculations.

You'll be seeing €1.55 next week in many places.

For information, every $10 on the oil price means 6c on at the pumps as the only changing figure is the raw material cost. Refinery, distribution & retail costs stay the same as does duties & levies no matter what price a barrell of oil costs.

approx 160 litres of oil in barrel, (51c € / litre @ $112 / barrel approx 7c €/litre to refine it, 59.6c duties & taxes, 10c distribution & retail and then 21% vat on top of all that. Total = 1.54

That's all well and good but my original reason for beginning this thread was that I believe there is a strong possibility of a cartell going on between the stations in Naas. The FACT that I can buy petrol 150 miles down the road for 5c cheaper and yet most all of the stations in Naas are hovering at the same (inflated) rate goes some distance to proving my point.

91011

BuzzFish wrote: »

That's all well and good but my original reason for beginning this thread was that I believe there is a strong possibility of a cartell going on between the stations in Naas. The FACT that I can buy petrol 150 miles down the road for 5c cheaper and yet most all of the stations in Naas are hovering at the same (inflated) rate goes some distance to proving my point.

Lowest price in Fermoy on 22nd Feb in Amber was 142.6 for unleaded & 1.35.7 for diesel
In Naas on same day, lowest price was 1.44.9 for unleaded & 1.379 for diesel.

However when there's volatility, prices change often (currently 3 times a week). A busy station will 3 deliveries a week, whereas a quiet staion will get less. I know the amber staion in Fermoy and it isn't a busy staion, hence it might be a couple of days behind the curve.

But when you compare Naas to any other area in the country, the prices are at the national average.

Prices from www.pumps.ie

BTW - there are quite a few fuel stations available for sale around the country and over 1000 (50%) have closed in the past 10 years. Usually when there's money to be made in a type of business the number of outlets increase.

BuzzFish

91011 wrote: »

Lowest price in Fermoy on 22nd Feb in Amber was 142.6 for unleaded & 1.35.7 for diesel
In Naas on same day, lowest price was 1.44.9 for unleaded & 1.379 for diesel.

However when there's volatility, prices change often (currently 3 times a week). A busy station will 3 deliveries a week, whereas a quiet staion will get less. I know the amber staion in Fermoy and it isn't a busy staion, hence it might be a couple of days behind the curve.

But when you compare Naas to any other area in the country, the prices are at the national average.

Prices from www.pumps.ie

BTW - there are quite a few fuel stations available for sale around the country and over 1000 (50%) have closed in the past 10 years. Usually when there's money to be made in a type of business the number of outlets increase.

This is getting tiring as you fail to see my point. Also you now tell me I'm lying about the prices on particular days. I was in these stations and saw the prices. Are you 100% sure that pumps was updated correctly and on these days?

Also the Amber station on the way into Fermoy is an extremely busy station (located 1 1/2 miles off the Northern M8 exit). In fact even with their 10 or so pumps I had to queue.

Any as this thread is going nowhere I'll leave ya at it ;-)

MaceFace

91011 wrote: »

Lowest price in Fermoy on 22nd Feb in Amber was 142.6 for unleaded & 1.35.7 for diesel
In Naas on same day, lowest price was 1.44.9 for unleaded & 1.379 for diesel.

However when there's volatility, prices change often (currently 3 times a week). A busy station will 3 deliveries a week, whereas a quiet staion will get less. I know the amber staion in Fermoy and it isn't a busy staion, hence it might be a couple of days behind the curve.

But when you compare Naas to any other area in the country, the prices are at the national average.

Prices from www.pumps.ie

BTW - there are quite a few fuel stations available for sale around the country and over 1000 (50%) have closed in the past 10 years. Usually when there's money to be made in a type of business the number of outlets increase.

Can you share the website that lists the current refinery price?

91011

MaceFace wrote: »

Can you share the website that lists the current refinery price?

any financial site such as bloomber. yahoo finance, ft.com or specialist commodity site such as profitquotes.

http://www.profitquotes.com/commodities-quotes.mpl?i=1&Oil+and+Gas+Quotes

Prices are quoted in US gallons (3.8litres) but you must then add in a brent crude premium at present.
Usually Brent & New York (wti) oils are within $1 but at present there's about 15% difference. - refining cost is about $us 8c per litre and diesel about us$ 13c per litre.

Very easy ballpark - at exchange rate of 1.35 - 1.40 the cost of unleaded at refinery is 5c per each $10 of oil price. Totay's oil price is $112, so 5 x 11.2 = 57c, addin taxes 59.6 + retail & distribution cost 10c + vat on everything and you get the 2 week forward price. (2 weeks from refinery increase to pump increase)
.

Not

BuzzFish wrote: »

So my point stands then really. There is no competition in Naas between most of the garages (applegreen being the exception). This could suggest a cartell.

cartell = car history website
cartel = word you are looking for

Right, I'm off to compare the meerkat....:pac:

savy2011

BuzzFish wrote: »

Not sure is this was discussed before but why are all the Petrol Stations in Naas usually on average 5c per litre more expensive than the garages in Newbridge. Most of the time they are even more expensive than the stations no the N7.

Has anyone ever prompted consumer watch that there may well be a cartell going on? Applegreen seem to be the only exception but again Carragh is always cheaper than their station in Naas town.

yea there should be - petrol is now ridiculous so much so you are genuininely not going places and doing things which would get the economny up and going because of the price of petrol. Caragh is good of petrol in the apple green but i dont understand why its cheaper than Naas, we may get the bikes out ! at least the weather is turning better