Cyclocross bike

billyhead · 17-02-2011 11:18am #1

Can anyone advise of a good cyclo cross bike to use for a 25km commute each way. I know you are going to say get a road bike but the Iirsh weather is so bad that I feel a cyclocross would be better for my daily commute

Raam · 17-02-2011 11:24am

Don't get a cross bike, get a road bike.
Cross bikes are for cyclo cross races.
Road bikes are for riding on the road.
Honestly, it's that simple.

mo_bhicycle · 17-02-2011 11:39am

billyhead wrote: »

Iirsh weather is so bad that I feel a cyclocross would be better for my daily commute

Do cyclocross bikes come with rain covers now?

Seriously though, how is a cyclocross going to be any better for Irish weather (on a road), than a road bike (on a road)?

seamus · 17-02-2011 11:40am

The only time you can't use a road bike in Irish weather is in the snow. We don't get that much snow

Road wheels are much nicer than knobbly tyres in the rain because the smoother profile means they pick up less water and tend to throw it forwards. Knobbly tyres pick up buckets of water and throw them straight up. Into your face.

penexpers · 17-02-2011 11:51am

Cyclo cross bikes can take wider tires and have much better clearance for mudguards. I think they make perfect sense for commuting on Irish roads.

C3PO · 17-02-2011 12:00pm

Have to say I love my Focus CX3 as a winter training bike. I just feel that it's built a bit stronger than my roadbike and I'm much less precious about it!

blorg · 17-02-2011 12:02pm

For commuting a cross bike makes a lot of sense, as long as it will take rack and mudguards- some dont. You NEED to replace the tires for road use but that is not a big deal. My own commuter was a cross bike. In particular a road bike is no use at carrying stuff, into work, shopping on the way home etc. For unloaded day cycling a road bike is a nicer ride.

Raam · 17-02-2011 12:08pm

penexpers wrote: »

Cyclo cross bikes can take wider tires and have much better clearance for mudguards. I think they make perfect sense for commuting on Irish roads.

Plenty of road bikes take wide tyres and mudguards. I think they make perfect sense for commuting on Irish roads. How wide a tyre is needed? I don't have super awesome bike handling skillz, yet I've been on 23s all winter, with mudguards.

@Blorg: what bike are you currently carrying a load of stuff on right now on your big trip?

Lumen · 17-02-2011 12:12pm

Cart before horse.

What's the budget?

penexpers · 17-02-2011 12:13pm

Raam wrote: »

Plenty of road bikes take wide tyres and mudguards. I think they make perfect sense for commuting on Irish roads. How wide a tyre is needed? I don't have super awesome bike handling skillz, yet I've been on 23s all winter, with mudguards.

Do any road bikes take 40mm tires with mudguards? 40mm is a bit extreme but it's nice to have options

As far as I can see, the only advantage that a road bike has is that calipers tend to give better braking than canitlever/v-brakes.

Lumen · 17-02-2011 12:16pm

POW!

Raam · 17-02-2011 12:18pm

She's pretty, but wasted on the road.

Lumen · 17-02-2011 12:23pm

Raam wrote: »

She's pretty, but wasted on the road.

That depends upon future weather scenarios.

Having spent the last month or so poking clumps of oily sand out of my calipers, disc brakes are quite appealing.

Raam · 17-02-2011 12:26pm

Lumen wrote: »

That depends upon future weather scenarios.

Having spent the last month or so poking clumps of oily sand out of my calipers, disc brakes are quite appealing.

That is no where near a good enough reason.

Lumen · 17-02-2011 12:27pm

Raam wrote: »

That is no where near a good enough reason.

Wider tyres have less rolling resistance on rough roads.

Raam · 17-02-2011 12:29pm

Lumen wrote: »

Wider tyres have less rolling resistance on rough roads.

Which road are we talking about? Is it so bad that it rules out all the smooth ones?

blorg · 17-02-2011 2:45pm

Raam wrote: »

Plenty of road bikes take wide tyres and mudguards. I think they make perfect sense for commuting on Irish roads. How wide a tyre is needed? I don't have super awesome bike handling skillz, yet I've been on 23s all winter, with mudguards.

Most road bikes will take up to 25c- some (particularly entry level models) will take 28c. Most will not take full-length mudguards, and those that will, will not take mudguards with anything over 25c tyres. 25c is a fine option if you are not carrying a load and 28c is fine for a light load.

OP specifically asked about a bike for commuting, a long commute. I take that to mean including in the winter/rain and sometimes carrying a load. For this purpose, if he does not already have a bike, IMO an audax/touring/cross bike is optimal. I would never suggest a cross bike to someone who plans unloaded spins around Wicklow "because of the Irish roads" - as we all agree, a road bike is fine for that. But it is not optimal for carrying a load- wider tyres are needed (and a frame that doesn't flex disconcertingly at the back when loaded).

Raam wrote: »

@Blorg: what bike are you currently carrying a load of stuff on right now on your big trip?

My Van Nicholas Amazon- this is sold as a touring and cross frame. Currently with 700x35c (wide- ISO 622-37) Marathon Supreme tyres and SKS mudguards. I would like wider tyres but I am limited by the mudguards (and what tyres I have/can get.) The roads are not so good here and I have been on unpaved roads a fair bit too; 622-42 or even wider would be preferable for me, but I can live with these. 35c is luxurious for any onroad loaded touring in Ireland or Western Europe, 32c would be fine too I reckon. Lunch today:

Raam · 17-02-2011 2:47pm

So the cross bike has become a touring/audax bike now. I.e. a road bike.

blorg · 17-02-2011 3:04pm

Raam wrote: »

So the cross bike has become a touring/audax bike now. I.e. a road bike.

Road bike generally means something that will take 23/25c tyres, with caliper brakes, designed to be ridden without a load.

A touring or audax bike would be a good option as well for a commute but OP asked about cross bikes, which are also a good option (if they have the holes for rack/guards) and may be better value than specific touring bikes which tend to be very expensive in comparison.

Raam · 17-02-2011 3:10pm

blorg wrote: »

Road bike generally means something that will take 23/25c tyres, with caliper brakes, designed to be ridden without a load.

A touring or audax bike would be a good option as well for a commute but OP asked about cross bikes, which are also a good option (if they have the holes for rack/guards) and may be better value than specific touring bikes which tend to be very expensive in comparison.

Generally, but not always. In other words, there are plenty of road bikes which are suitable to be ridden with loads. I've ridden the length and breadth of the country with such a fabled machine.

OP asked about Cross bikes, mistakenly, IMHO neglecting road bikes.

blorg · 17-02-2011 4:04pm

A road bike (as that term is commonly understood, eg a racer) is not optimal for carrying a load. It can be done, certainly, can even be best for ultra light touring, but it is not the 1st answer for every need. If OP does NOT need to carry a load on his commute, and might use the bike for general spins, he should indeed consider a road bike. If if wants to carry stuff the cross bike will be better.

Raam · 17-02-2011 4:07pm

blorg wrote: »

A road bike (as that term is commonly understood, eg a racer).

That's your own prejudice on the term.

Vélo · 17-02-2011 4:14pm

blorg wrote: »

Most road bikes will take up to 25c- some (particularly entry level models) will take 28c. Most will not take full-length mudguards, and those that will, will not take mudguards with anything over 25c tyres. 25c is a fine option if you are not carrying a load and 28c is fine for a light load.

OP specifically asked about a bike for commuting, a long commute. I take that to mean including in the winter/rain and sometimes carrying a load. For this purpose, if he does not already have a bike, IMO an audax/touring/cross bike is optimal. I would never suggest a cross bike to someone who plans unloaded spins around Wicklow "because of the Irish roads" - as we all agree, a road bike is fine for that. But it is not optimal for carrying a load- wider tyres are needed (and a frame that doesn't flex disconcertingly at the back when loaded).

My Van Nicholas Amazon- this is sold as a touring and cross frame. Currently with 700x35c (wide- ISO 622-37) Marathon Supreme tyres and SKS mudguards. I would like wider tyres but I am limited by the mudguards (and what tyres I have/can get.) The roads are not so good here and I have been on unpaved roads a fair bit too; 622-42 or even wider would be preferable for me, but I can live with these. 35c is luxurious for any onroad loaded touring in Ireland or Western Europe, 32c would be fine too I reckon. Lunch today:

Blorg, I like the two ladies that are checking you out

Collumbo · 17-02-2011 4:20pm

back to the original question....

Any cross bike that fits you will do. Cross bike makes perfect sense commuting in Ireland where you'll have rough roads no matter where you live. I commuted on mine from October to about 1st week of Jan on 30mm cross training tyres. They are great for taking a few vibrations and you can ride them fairly soft too (about 35-40psi) which is nice if you feel like venturing off road on the way home, and better actually when it's wet. Just be careful taking a corner on a wet road - cyclocross tyres definitely aren't as grippy on the road as proper road tyres and you might find they skid a bit more... The other thing to keep in mind is that cyclocross brakes aren't as good as proper road brakes. Your braking distance can be much longer in wet conditions... I replaced the blocks once this Winter.

Speaking of which, I was going to wait until August to advertise mine as the cross season kicks off in a few weeks after that... if you want to know more PM me. (suit over 5'10" up to 6'1")

Oh and cyclocross racing is good fun too if you're that way inclined!

Raam · 17-02-2011 4:25pm

Collumbo wrote: »

Just be careful taking a corner on a wet road - cyclocross tyres definitely aren't as grippy on the road as proper road tyres and you might find they skid a bit more... The other thing to keep in mind is that cyclocross brakes aren't as good as proper road brakes. Your braking distance can be much longer in wet conditions... I replaced the blocks once this Winter.

I know a type of bike which will handle those situations OK and ride fast

.

Vélo · 17-02-2011 4:30pm

Not a Cross bike but does take wider tyres

What's your budget?....oh and it's steel!

markdrayton · 17-02-2011 4:37pm

I bought a 'cross bike to race CX and to use as a training/winter bike.

I don't use it for training/winter for these reasons:

1) cantilever brakes are ****e. At best they're less effective than calipers, at worst (Google "cyclocross fork judder OR shudder") they're like riding a pneumatic drill.
2) mudguards, or at least standard road-ish ones, don't fit because there are no caliper bolts (no caliper brakes) to mount them on. Probably workaroundable but check before you buy.

If you never plan to ride off road at all I can't see an advantage in buying a CX bike. But I would advise racing CX, because that's great.

C3PO · 17-02-2011 4:38pm

blorg wrote: »

Most road bikes will take up to 25c- some (particularly entry level models) will take 28c. Most will not take full-length mudguards, and those that will, will not take mudguards with anything over 25c tyres. 25c is a fine option if you are not carrying a load and 28c is fine for a light load.

OP specifically asked about a bike for commuting, a long commute. I take that to mean including in the winter/rain and sometimes carrying a load. For this purpose, if he does not already have a bike, IMO an audax/touring/cross bike is optimal. I would never suggest a cross bike to someone who plans unloaded spins around Wicklow "because of the Irish roads" - as we all agree, a road bike is fine for that. But it is not optimal for carrying a load- wider tyres are needed (and a frame that doesn't flex disconcertingly at the back when loaded).

My Van Nicholas Amazon- this is sold as a touring and cross frame. Currently with 700x35c (wide- ISO 622-37) Marathon Supreme tyres and SKS mudguards. I would like wider tyres but I am limited by the mudguards (and what tyres I have/can get.) The roads are not so good here and I have been on unpaved roads a fair bit too; 622-42 or even wider would be preferable for me, but I can live with these. 35c is luxurious for any onroad loaded touring in Ireland or Western Europe, 32c would be fine too I reckon. Lunch today:

I'm very envious ...... I think!!

Lumen · 17-02-2011 4:45pm

markdrayton wrote: »

cantilever brakes are ****e. At best they're less effective than calipers, at worst (Google "cyclocross fork judder OR shudder") they're like riding a pneumatic drill.

These issues are completely curable with a bit of effort. However, calipers work with zero effort so I sort of agree with you.

blorg · 17-02-2011 4:55pm

@mark- cantis are indeed bad vs calipers but they can be made acceptable if wide profile and adjustable. More than OK for a winter trainer. I would still prefer my road bike for fast descents certainly.

markdrayton · 17-02-2011 6:31pm

blorg wrote: »

@mark- cantis are indeed bad vs calipers but they can be made acceptable if wide profile and adjustable. More than OK for a winter trainer. I would still prefer my road bike for fast descents certainly.

You're welcome to come round and try to fix my fork judder. I've spent a lot of time trying with crazy toe-in and wide profile. This just gives super-spongy brakes that still judder. The only thing that'd save me is a fork-mounted cable hanger but my fork doesn't have a drilling for one.

The brakes are fine for CX racing but I wouldn't want to try avoiding a kid running into the road with them.

Calipers are definitely less hassle.

blorg · 17-02-2011 6:43pm

Have you tried road brake pads? Eg. short ones, not the long V-ones? I got judder on V-brake pads but not road pads. Off-topic I know. Ultimately it is down to the bike, fork and brakes and I have had judder but on out of four bikes only one it was really bad- with a steel fork and low-profile cantis.

Lumen · 17-02-2011 7:14pm

markdrayton wrote: »

You're welcome to come round and try to fix my fork judder. I've spent a lot of time trying with crazy toe-in and wide profile. This just gives super-spongy brakes that still judder. The only thing that'd save me is a fork-mounted cable hanger but my fork doesn't have a drilling for one.

For me, this sums up what's wrong with recommending CX bikes for non-CX use without caveats.

Every road bike I've bought has just worked out of the box.

blorg · 17-02-2011 8:12pm

That is an issue with any bike you want to use with drop bars, STI levers and wide tyres, due to those components not being designed to work together. Drop any of the three and you can get it working fine. Drops, STI and adjustable wide-profile cantis work acceptably, IMO (not as good as calipers, but you don't have the wide tyres there either.)

Raam · 17-02-2011 8:13pm

So are we recommending a hybrid? That's a first.

Lumen · 17-02-2011 9:29pm

blorg wrote: »

That is an issue with any bike you want to use with drop bars, STI levers and wide tyres, due to those components not being designed to work together. Drop any of the three and you can get it working fine. Drops, STI and adjustable wide-profile cantis work acceptably, IMO (not as good as calipers, but you don't have the wide tyres there either.)

How wide is wide?

Long drop calipers like the Tektro 538 will apparently fit at least 35mm tyres, with a suitable frame.

Cyclocross bike

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