Cattle Finishing

oldhead

Just wondering are there any cattle finishers around the west that are at it a few years, or know of anyone, that wouldnt mind a visitor for a look at there set up, and how they get there weights achieved. Just want to see how the others do it basically, if u or they would'nt mind. i want to learn how to do it right, what to look for in an animal, when they start feeding, how long they feed for, bull, bullock or heifers, and what ration do they find best.

Many Thanks

huey1975

i feed about 70 bullocks and my old man feeds about 100 heifers and every year we change things a bit as regards the strength of the stores we buy, or the amount of meal we feed at grass, or whether to buy younger cattle and keep them longer or turn over cattle more quickly.
at the end of every year we spot things that could have been done differently to increase profit margins. (i think what i mean is that there is no pleasing him)

i know of some very profitable farmers who go by the theory that as you have no control over the price of meal, or the price of meal, you can only control the price of the store cattle that you purchase and therefore buy O grade cattle. if a bullock kills out 400kg an O grade bullock he will come into 96 euro less than a R grade bullock ar the same weight. therefore if he costs 200 euro less as a 2year old store bullock the O grade is a more profitable option. However when you include lower kill out percentages and lower feed conversion efficiencies a lot of this profit is eroded.

if you are just talking about buying cattle in the autumn to kill out of the shed all i can say is good luck because you are at the mercy of larry goodman and he will only ever pay you as little as he possibly can for your quality product. the level of meal feeding means you would be operating on very tight margins and unless you are doing it on a large scale is it worth the risk?
for example if you buy 650kg bullock in october for 1150 and he kills 450 kg at 3.36/kilo he comes into 1512. haulage from mart and to factory is 15 euro and commission in mart and factory fees is 25 euro. if he eats 14lbs of meal for 100 days that costs approx 150 euro. that leaves a profit of 170/head before any silage or contribution to fixed costs is made. realistically if you had a hundred a head out of it you would be doing quite well. just my opinion though

oldhead

huey1975 wrote: »

i feed about 70 bullocks and my old man feeds about 100 heifers and every year we change things a bit as regards the strength of the stores we buy, or the amount of meal we feed at grass, or whether to buy younger cattle and keep them longer or turn over cattle more quickly.
at the end of every year we spot things that could have been done differently to increase profit margins. (i think what i mean is that there is no pleasing him)

i know of some very profitable farmers who go by the theory that as you have no control over the price of meal, or the price of meal, you can only control the price of the store cattle that you purchase and therefore buy O grade cattle. if a bullock kills out 400kg an O grade bullock he will come into 96 euro less than a R grade bullock ar the same weight. therefore if he costs 200 euro less as a 2year old store bullock the O grade is a more profitable option. However when you include lower kill out percentages and lower feed conversion efficiencies a lot of this profit is eroded.

if you are just talking about buying cattle in the autumn to kill out of the shed all i can say is good luck because you are at the mercy of larry goodman and he will only ever pay you as little as he possibly can for your quality product. the level of meal feeding means you would be operating on very tight margins and unless you are doing it on a large scale is it worth the risk?
for example if you buy 650kg bullock in october for 1150 and he kills 450 kg at 3.36/kilo he comes into 1512. haulage from mart and to factory is 15 euro and commission in mart and factory fees is 25 euro. if he eats 14lbs of meal for 100 days that costs approx 150 euro. that leaves a profit of 170/head before any silage or contribution to fixed costs is made. realistically if you had a hundred a head out of it you would be doing quite well. just my opinion though

many thanks for that. do you find its easier to fatten the heifer over the bullock. what ration mixture do u find works best on either the bullock or heifer. thanks again

huey1975

yeah it is a lot easier to fatten the heifer and you can keep more of them on the same amount of land. i keep bullocks because i dont have time to go to the mart as often so i find it easier to buy fewer larger animals and keep them longer. the old man keeps most of his heifers for an average of about 12 months - buying stores about 350kg and killing them at about 620 kg. some of the smaller butty heifers are sold to a butcher at carcase weights of 300kg so i guess they would be about 560-570kg liveweight.
i kind of have a motto regarding cattle, that keeping them for one winter is an inconvenience but keeping them for two is an expense
the bullocks that i buy would vary anything from 400kg to 600kg and from 18 months to 24 months of age, and if i buy a 70 year i would normally end up with 5 Os and 5 Us and the rest would be all Rs. most of the cattle would be killed of grass. Generally 20 bullocks in the end of june that would have been eating meal for about 10 weeks, 15 bullocks in mid august of grass alone 15 bullocks in mid october of grass alone and then about 20 bullocks in late december or early january killed out of the shed getting about 14lbs of meal from about november 1st. Carcase weights would vary from about 360kg to about 460kg but would average around the 400kg mark. I would be buying a few cattle nearly all year round so stock numbers wouldnt normally ever fall below 55-60 or rise above 80.
mine is a fairly low input system with my only fertilizer costs on the silage ground and the only cattle that get meal are the ones killed out of the shed and the ones killed in june (generally the bullocks that were too backward and/or growthy to be killed out of the shed the previous december/january) the more of this that i write the more i realise that i am a bit of a lazy bastard and i should be making more use of the land so i guess that i shouldnt be giving advice. anyway an awful lot depends on land quality, grass quality (is the land of sufficient quality for it to be worthwhile to reseed?) climate. i hope that this helped even though i have just raised a few more questions for myself. best of luck huey.

oldhead

Thanks very much for that huey.

huey1975 wrote: »

yeah it is a lot easier to fatten the heifer and you can keep more of them on the same amount of land. i keep bullocks because i dont have time to go to the mart as often so i find it easier to buy fewer larger animals and keep them longer. the old man keeps most of his heifers for an average of about 12 months - buying stores about 350kg and killing them at about 620 kg. some of the smaller butty heifers are sold to a butcher at carcase weights of 300kg so i guess they would be about 560-570kg liveweight.
i kind of have a motto regarding cattle, that keeping them for one winter is an inconvenience but keeping them for two is an expense
the bullocks that i buy would vary anything from 400kg to 600kg and from 18 months to 24 months of age, and if i buy a 70 year i would normally end up with 5 Os and 5 Us and the rest would be all Rs. most of the cattle would be killed of grass. Generally 20 bullocks in the end of june that would have been eating meal for about 10 weeks, 15 bullocks in mid august of grass alone 15 bullocks in mid october of grass alone and then about 20 bullocks in late december or early january killed out of the shed getting about 14lbs of meal from about november 1st. Carcase weights would vary from about 360kg to about 460kg but would average around the 400kg mark. I would be buying a few cattle nearly all year round so stock numbers wouldnt normally ever fall below 55-60 or rise above 80.
mine is a fairly low input system with my only fertilizer costs on the silage ground and the only cattle that get meal are the ones killed out of the shed and the ones killed in june (generally the bullocks that were too backward and/or growthy to be killed out of the shed the previous december/january) the more of this that i write the more i realise that i am a bit of a lazy bastard and i should be making more use of the land so i guess that i shouldnt be giving advice. anyway an awful lot depends on land quality, grass quality (is the land of sufficient quality for it to be worthwhile to reseed?) climate. i hope that this helped even though i have just raised a few more questions for myself. best of luck huey.

TUBBY

I'll tell ye one thing lads. I did a profit monitor there for 2010 and realised that if you are finishing off bought in cattle, you should justify every cheque you write because the output is fairly fixed so it doesnt pay to go mad on fertilizer, meal etc. you are only making somebody else rich.
Add in bills for slurry, silage, hedgecutting, repairs, insurance, vets and there is very little margin left. The SFP is being eaten into.

One piece of advice for you anyway is stay well clear of bulls, they would rob you to finish them. Bullocks are a good option if you buy O grade. Any fool can buy the dearest lad in the mart.
it is a lot easier to keep an O grade O or even get him to r than keep a U grade U.
I think there are too many farmers (myself included) who like the yellow Ch looking in the back window. When you go to buy these stores, they are mad money and as the lads say, when you kill out the difference is not there.

oldhead

TUBBY wrote: »

I'll tell ye one thing lads. I did a profit monitor there for 2010 and realised that if you are finishing off bought in cattle, you should justify every cheque you write because the output is fairly fixed so it doesnt pay to go mad on fertilizer, meal etc. you are only making somebody else rich.
Add in bills for slurry, silage, hedgecutting, repairs, insurance, vets and there is very little margin left. The SFP is being eaten into.

One piece of advice for you anyway is stay well clear of bulls, they would rob you to finish them. Bullocks are a good option if you buy O grade. Any fool can buy the dearest lad in the mart.
it is a lot easier to keep an O grade O or even get him to r than keep a U grade U.
I think there are too many farmers (myself included) who like the yellow Ch looking in the back window. When you go to buy these stores, they are mad money and as the lads say, when you kill out the difference is not there.

you never said a truer word tubs. i was the same myself. i always like to have nice looking cattle, but as you said it is a hell of alot easier to keep an O grade an O grade with the hope of pushing it to a R, instead of buying in R grades, unless you got them for nothing. what kinda ration do you have yours on and how much a tonne are you getting caught for

TUBBY

how ya oldhead. have them on a 16% NUT from connacht gold for round 235 a ton. it seems like a good nut and is defo putting on condition.

have paddocks done now so hope to cut down on fert and also meal to reduce input. its a tight game and i am starting to question myself now when writing the cheques instead if justifying expenses as one offs or ok cause factory price is good.

a handy thing i do now is know how much i can afford to pay for cattle along with weight before i go to mart and stick to it, better empty trailer than cattle bought 50 euro too dear

oldhead

TUBBY wrote: »

how ya oldhead. have them on a 16% NUT from connacht gold for round 235 a ton. it seems like a good nut and is defo putting on condition.

have paddocks done now so hope to cut down on fert and also meal to reduce input. its a tight game and i am starting to question myself now when writing the cheques instead if justifying expenses as one offs or ok cause factory price is good.

a handy thing i do now is know how much i can afford to pay for cattle along with weight before i go to mart and stick to it, better empty trailer than cattle bought 50 euro too dear

Dam right tubs, an empty trailer will save you water aswell. you wont have to wash the trailer.

I use a Maize Beef Nut from Connacht Gold. Its costing me approx €265 a tonne thou. but it def put on the condition on them, but then again it would dam want to for the price of it. looking to change down to a high maize ration at the min from connacht gold, when you buy bought 5 ton i could buy it for around €240 a ton. it not easy, i tell you that. im only new to this game of finishing so it is an expensive learning game, i can tel you that.

TUBBY

Best of luck with it anyway Oldhead.
I was just plodding along doing it me own way but from chatting the Teagasc lads and the profit monitor, they have me convinced to control costs and do regular health checks on finances to ensure i am not eating into SFP and REPs.

Did you chat Flynns in Mullingar, they have a good beef ration (barley, maize main ingredients) seemingly now that can be got for less than 230 if you take 8 ton.

oldhead

TUBBY wrote: »

Best of luck with it anyway Oldhead.
I was just plodding along doing it me own way but from chatting the Teagasc lads and the profit monitor, they have me convinced to control costs and do regular health checks on finances to ensure i am not eating into SFP and REPs.

Did you chat Flynns in Mullingar, they have a good beef ration (barley, maize main ingredients) seemingly now that can be got for less than 230 if you take 8 ton.

Cheers Tubby, no i didnt try them, i must give them a shout. cheers buck.

quader

just wondering do any of ye go to jennings in ballinrobe

huey1975

the old man killed heifers there once about 5 years ago. NEVER AGAIN. we were very disappointed with the killout. the extra 2p/lb is not much good if they trim off every last bit of fat

TUBBY

No, usually Moyvalley (although I personally think they are severe with their trimming judging by % killout compared to other factories), Kepak Kilbeggan or Dunbia, Slane.
really depends where the best price can be got on the day

blue5000

Only once! V. slow to pay, I think it was 3 weeks after the cattle were slaughtered. Never again.

oldhead

no never did, have heard to many bad reports bought that place. a friend of mine was in ballyhaunis today. he just had 3 he wanted to get rid of and he got approx 335. they were all over the 30 mths.

What ages do ye send them to be killed. do ye go before the 30 months for the extra few pence or do ye bring them in after the 30 months?????

TUBBY

go before the 30 months Oldhead. It is a few pence extra but also helps you get the Bord Bia bonus which is another 2p/lb
Unless you have a cruel rangy Ch, you are only putting on fat after 30 months anyway.

oldhead

I try to tubs, those that dont finish i do sometimes let them off in the mart. if they havent finished in the 100 to 120 days of the feeding well they will take forever to finish as i found out, and with the price of meal to it doesnt help to be feeding them over the period. they seem to loose a bit of weight if anything.

Muckit

Lads

Do ye use an agent or book them in yourselves? The few we send to the factory we book and transport them in ourselves to our local kepak in Athleague.

Often wondered about lads goin through dealers and paying haulage bringing cattle here there and everywhere to this factory and that. Is it worth it?

oldhead

Muckit, i use an agent. i have known him for a while. he can sometimes squeze that extra few cent out for me. i do bring them to the factory myself and he has them pre booked in for me. just drop them off and away i go. sometimes i wait round when it suits me.

quader

have killed heifers in ballinrobe lately but my kill outs were very bad considering the level of feeding they got

Muckit

oldhead wrote: »

Muckit, i use an agent. i have known him for a while. he can sometimes squeze that extra few cent out for me. i do bring them to the factory myself and he has them pre booked in for me. just drop them off and away i go. sometimes i wait round when it suits me.

But then oldead you've to pay your agent. It still obviously pays?

oldhead

Muckit wrote: »

But then oldead you've to pay your agent. It still obviously pays?

ah yea, he has a small bit out of it but not much, family friend, i still get more than if i just landed in off the road. every extra cent counts these days

gent6270

any advice on where the best factory for different cattle is, say good charlaois bullocks or even fr. down south. i know they all the much for muchness. and they all try and screw you for the last penny

quader

try david murphy pm me if you want his no found him very good last week

freedominacup

gent6270 wrote: »

any advice on where the best factory for different cattle is, say good charlaois bullocks or even fr. down south. i know they all the much for muchness. and they all try and screw you for the last penny

Speaking to a relation of mine from the Mallow area recently. He sold cattle through a Kilkenny based dealer/agent to a factory in N. Midlands. All just under 30-month bullocks and as he said himself all good solid O's. That buyer would be a long way from a stranger in my relations yard.He's been buying cattle there for years and could just as easily been bringing those cattle to Waterford.

Long story short it depends on what factory is short what type of cattle this week.

rivaldo2000

Whats the story with Jennings Ballinrobe thought they were good factory till I read this post. Donegal suppose to be tops by far.

DMAXMAN

rivaldo2000 wrote: »

Whats the story with Jennings Ballinrobe thought they were good factory till I read this post. Donegal suppose to be tops by far.

used to go to donegal for years once upon a time. could get a bonus for heavier carcases back then, now they pay the bonus on lighter carcases. the best place to go if you have the right cattle. as some of the other posters said its about what a factory wants on any given day.a lot of agents deal in a number of factories so keeping in contact with 1 or 2 of them will let you know whats happening.

rivaldo2000

Have a couple of right nice blue heifers. not far from fit just wondering where to send them. was thinking jennings ballinrobe but thinking again after reading this.Hoping these heifers will grade U.