Teagasc Cert in Agriculture - online

Muckit

Hi lads

I've seen this course advertised today in paper

Advanced Certifcate in Agriculture - online
For non-agricultural level 6 Major award holders

Was wondering if anyone here has done the course before?

munkus

Muckit,

Thinking of doing it myself. €2000 is an outrageous cost for a 1 year course delivered over the Internet. Need it unless I want to pay stramp duty in a few years though! Need a level 6 Higher Certificate from IOT.

http://www.teagasc.ie/ecollege/courses.asp

millertime78

I'm set to inherit the farm from my parents in a few years, I have no agri qualification and only farm part time. Do I need any qualifications?

CCM

I'm just finishing it off at the minute just have 3 projects to submit. Don't be fooled by the online bit though if you're working fulltime. It cost me 10 days annual leave (Thursday/Fridays) along with a good few Saturdays

millertime78 wrote: »

I'm set to inherit the farm from my parents in a few years, I have no agri qualification and only farm part time. Do I need any qualifications?

Depends on the value of the farm. I'm not sure what the cut off points are after the last budget

barryoc1

I am half way through the course. Have to go to attend an agricultural college about 1 day a month. On that day have an exam in the mornin on what you have been studyin for the past month and do some practicals like soil sampling or farm walk. Alot of evenings taken up with studyin for the exam but they aint too strict bout the exams thankfully. But the projects also take a fair bit of time. The only thing you do online is correspond with the tutor every now and again but in really very little done online. Cost is excessive but what can you do? Anymore questions bout it?

Username John

I did it a long time ago - one of the first years to do it I think. It was broken over two sections. When I did it, there was very few days involved - maybe 3 for each part. But its changed a lot since...

As for the 2k - is it worth it? Well, you need to work it out for yourself. It was for me, as without I wouldnt have been able to apply for REPS plus stamp duty...

Isnt there a rule re qualifying for SFP or any schemes, that you need to be qualified? So if you are to become a farmer, you either have to do this, or have to do a full time course?
I might be wrong here now, but this was my understanding...

Juniorhurler

Username John wrote: »

I did it a long time ago - one of the first years to do it I think. It was broken over two sections. When I did it, there was very few days involved - maybe 3 for each part. But its changed a lot since...

As for the 2k - is it worth it? Well, you need to work it out for yourself. It was for me, as without I wouldnt have been able to apply for REPS plus stamp duty...

Isnt there a rule re qualifying for SFP or any schemes, that you need to be qualified? So if you are to become a farmer, you either have to do this, or have to do a full time course?
I might be wrong here now, but this was my understanding...

You can get sfp, reps, AEOS, sws, fwms and any other acronym relevant to farming off the dept. of agriculture without the green cert. The only advantage is that you don't pay stamp on land transfers once you are under 35 years old at the time of land transfer. I looked into this and was told by the education officer in Rathstewart that I was wasting my time as I would be over 35 by the time that I would have the farm signed over. Anyway under current law most of the farm value could be written off under gift tax law as it is only a small parcel and stamp would be reduced to 3% as it is a father to son transfer on agricultural land.

Username John

Juniorhurler wrote: »

You can get sfp, reps, AEOS, sws, fwms and any other acronym relevant to farming off the dept. of agriculture without the green cert. The only advantage is that you don't pay stamp on land transfers once you are under 35 years old at the time of land transfer. I looked into this and was told by the education officer in Rathstewart that I was wasting my time as I would be over 35 by the time that I would have the farm signed over. Anyway under current law most of the farm value could be written off under gift tax law as it is only a small parcel and stamp would be reduced to 3% as it is a father to son transfer on agricultural land.

Oh, there you go - I stand corrected.

I did have to send off my qualifications all right tho, for the instalation aid scheme. But this scheme is gone now, so thats not a reason to do the course.

reilig

Username John wrote: »

Oh, there you go - I stand corrected.

I did have to send off my qualifications all right tho, for the instalation aid scheme. But this scheme is gone now, so thats not a reason to do the course.

One of my main reasons for doing the online course in 2004 was for the installation aid (also for inheritance). When I applied for the course they told me that it would qualify me for installation aid. On the last day of the course they told me that I wasn't eligable for installation aid because I had held my herd number since 1996. I felt scammed and lost out on the €12k odd that it was at the time. I was genuinely going to use it to build a shed. I know someone who got it and bought a car :mad:

aristo

Juniorhurler wrote: »

You can get sfp, reps, AEOS, sws, fwms and any other acronym relevant to farming off the dept. of agriculture without the green cert. The only advantage is that you don't pay stamp on land transfers once you are under 35 years old at the time of land transfer. I looked into this and was told by the education officer in Rathstewart that I was wasting my time as I would be over 35 by the time that I would have the farm signed over. Anyway under current law most of the farm value could be written off under gift tax law as it is only a small parcel and stamp would be reduced to 3% as it is a father to son transfer on agricultural land.

So a 36 year old having done a green cert will have to pay stamp duty on inheritance, whereas a 34 year old with a green cert wont?

What are the current stamp duty bands?
Thanks

niallf

There is no stamp duty on inheritances! But there is inheritance tax

mantua

You wouldn't consider doing the 3 year course? its 2 evenings a 1 full day a week and it only goes on for 5months a year!! usually start of october til the end of march! it only cost me €510 and its well worth it even if your not in it for the stamp duty! We were told the last day at it that eventually the installation aid will come back and so will grants for sheds etc. but it mightn't be for another 10 years but he swore that they will be back!! dont't know if most of ye will believe that but when you think that agriculture was the biggest exporter in 2010 and hopefully the government will open their eyes and realise that agriculture is the only thing keeping this country going!! Ring teagasc and ask about the 3 year course and im sure they will tell more info than i can!

theroad

Juniorhurler wrote: »

You can get sfp, reps, AEOS, sws, fwms and any other acronym relevant to farming off the dept. of agriculture without the green cert.

That's not 100% accurate. For example, the FWMS application (20-page pdf) listed 33 qualifications for "eligible persons." The conditions were different for anyone born before 1975. So in addition to having a herd no., you also had to have relevant experience/qualifications. Don't know about the other schemes mentioned above.

I'm guessing this will be standard for any grant schemes in the future (dream on!)

Muckit

Lads

Thanks for all the replies. Alot of very helpful advice and food for thought.

I've a third level non-agricultural degree under my belt and I'I never regret having done that....it has me in the job I'm in after all :rolleyes: AND I've learnt alot of practical construction related stuff that has come in handy and always will.

But I also have a great love and passion for farming. And although I've the practical knowledge and read up alot , I've never studied it formally or obtained any qualification. I definitely think I'd learn alot from doing it. I hadn't seen details on the costings.... but ya ... at €2000 it'd make me thing twice.

I am to inherit the family farm (only 40acres) and am 33. So I was considering it from this point of view aswel. Maybe one of you might know if finanically wise, would it be worth it?

Juniorhurler

Muckit wrote: »

Lads

Thanks for all the replies. Alot of very helpful advice and food for thought.

I've a third level non-agricultural degree under my belt and I'I never regret having done that....it has me in the job I'm in after all :rolleyes: AND I've learnt alot of practical construction related stuff that has come in handy and always will.

But I also have a great love and passion for farming. And although I've the practical knowledge and read up alot , I've never studied it formally or obtained any qualification. I definitely think I'd learn alot from doing it. I hadn't seen details on the costings.... but ya ... at €2000 it'd make me thing twice.

I am to inherit the family farm (only 40acres) and am 33. So I was considering it from this point of view aswel. Maybe one of you might know if finanically wise, would it be worth it?

If you are inheriting the farm it ain't worth it as you won't have to pay stamp duty on inheritance. If it is a transfer of land before your 35 you will save the 3% stamp. Consider the figures. 40ac @ €8000 per ac= €320,000. Stamp duty at 3% (rate for father to son transfer) €9600. Consider the twenty days in college and the €2000 fee. Time and money spent travelling. My situation was similar and I decided that it wasn't worth it. Mind you I would not have got abou 15 of the days off without paying a replacement from my own pocket which would have cost another €2000.
Best of luck with your decision.

Username John

Juniorhurler wrote: »

If you are inheriting the farm it ain't worth it as you won't have to pay stamp duty on inheritance. If it is a transfer of land before your 35 you will save the 3% stamp. Consider the figures. 40ac @ €8000 per ac= €320,000. Stamp duty at 3% (rate for father to son transfer) €9600. Consider the twenty days in college and the €2000 fee. Time and money spent travelling. My situation was similar and I decided that it wasn't worth it. Mind you I would not have got abou 15 of the days off without paying a replacement from my own pocket which would have cost another €2000.
Best of luck with your decision.

Is stamp duty calculated before or after the farmer rule is applied?
Not sure if its called "the farmer rule" - but the one the asset is reduced in value by 90% if 80% of your assets are agricultural.

Oh - and I underlined the above bit. Muckit - are you talking inheritence or transfer. I think Juniorhurler is right, no stamp on inheritence, but there is stamp on transfer.

niallf

The 'Farmer' rule doesnt apply to stamp duty, only on capital acquisitions tax which is what you pay on the inheritance

Niall

Juniorhurler

niallf wrote: »

The 'Farmer' rule doesnt apply to stamp duty, only on capital acquisitions tax which is what you pay on the inheritance

Niall

True.

Muckit

Lads

Thanks to all for replies. I'm afraid I have to hold my hands up and plead total ignorance:o

What is the difference (legally) between inheritance and a transfer? I'm thinking (even though it's a bit morbid:p) that it's got to do with whether I get the farm before or after the death of my parents??

Thanks all for the calculations etc. As I've said I'm totally ignorant on the whole subjec

Username John

Muckit wrote: »

Lads

Thanks to all for replies. I'm afraid I have to hold my hands up and plead total ignorance:o

What is the difference (legally) between inheritance and a transfer? I'm thinking (even though it's a bit morbid:p) that it's got to do with whether I get the farm before or after the death of my parents??

Thanks all for the calculations etc. As I've said I'm totally ignorant on the whole subjec

As far as I understand it
- inheritance is applicable only on a death
- transfer can take place at any time

But I was wrong in me previous post re needing the green cert - so I'm prob not the best person to be listening to

aristo

Username John wrote: »

As far as I understand it
- inheritance is applicable only on a death
- transfer can take place at any time

I could be horribly wrong here but i think,,

Inheritance tax (CAT) is 25% applicable to the remaining value of the item above the tax free threshold of €332,084.00

Stamp duty is on transfers at 1% up to €1M and 2% thereafter

So the most cost effective way of passing on land from father to son is for the son to have a green cert and transfer the land(stamp duty not applicable) before the father dies (inhertiance tax not applicable) or is the son then subject to some form of capital acquisitions tax?

Juniorhurler

aristo wrote: »

I could be horribly wrong here but i think,,

Inheritance tax (CAT) is 25% applicable to the remaining value of the item above the tax free threshold of €332,084.00

Stamp duty is on transfers at 1% up to €1M and 2% thereafter

So the most cost effective way of passing on land from father to son is for the son to have a green cert and transfer the land(stamp duty not applicable) before the father dies (inhertiance tax not applicable) or is the son then subject to some form of capital acquisitions tax?

Stamp from father to son/daughter is half the normal rate. Normal rate is 6% so 3%. If you have a green cert and are under 35 at time of transfer you are exempt.
On farms CAT is on 10% of the value of the farm as 90% is discounted for tax purposes I think. Sure about the stamp, not sure about the exact ins and outs of the CAT though. If you have other assets i.e investment properties you will not be considered a farmer and will lose the 90% discount I think.

nashmach

Same as barry above I am half way through the course as well - will be finished this time next year.

As has been said it is not a walk in the park!

betsie

ok sorry to be bringing up an old thread but entries are open for the online course again and I'm considering doing it, but as previously mentioned at a price of €2k I want to make sure its worth my while:

So current situation is Im 25 working away from the family farm (approx 80 ac), the farm will eventually be passed to me. if this is done by way of inheritance does that mean that the cert as it stands now will be of no advantage (financially that is) as it only gives reliefs on stamp duty which is on transfers??

king_m

Betsie,
In some what the same position as your self, 29 now and will be left the farm, currently farming it with my father with the herd number in his name. Was looking to putting it into my own name, so was talking to my Teagasc planner, he was saying that after the current aseos scheme (which we have hopefully just gotten into) there is talks of a scheme for young farmers under 35 and with a green cert. But like he said it currently just talks of it yet. So not sure to do the on line course or not??

F.D

thinking of doing this myself 30 now but thinking the same 2k for something thats worthless in 5 years if dad holds onto the farm for longer, on another note do you actually learn anything usefull while doin it or is it stuff you already know? i'm working in a non farm job and done agri engineering when i went to college, does it cover all sectors dairy beef tillage and can anyone give an example of how deep it goes into it

bigmcm

barryoc1 wrote: »

I am half way through the course. Have to go to attend an agricultural college about 1 day a month. On that day have an exam in the mornin on what you have been studyin for the past month and do some practicals like soil sampling or farm walk. Alot of evenings taken up with studyin for the exam but they aint too strict bout the exams thankfully. But the projects also take a fair bit of time. The only thing you do online is correspond with the tutor every now and again but in really very little done online. Cost is excessive but what can you do? Anymore questions bout it?

Just wondering about the online one. I've applied but still not sure if I can make all the days. I'm teaching and getting the days off will be a problem. It runs from may 2012 to may 2013. Were the mandatory attendance days always on a Friday? Did ye do much of it in the summer (july an august), do they accomodate people's working situations at all?? Under a bit of a time constraint here so would appreciate a quick reply from anyone with info.

thomand

Started the course last may, Its 17 days in doing exams,farm walks etc. We got holidays july,august and back in end of sept,its about 1 day every 3-4 weeks at the minute due to finish up in june.
Its not always fridays, we have three days in a row coming up the end of february doing practicals. Done wednesdays aswel before but its mainly fridays. You have to sit all exams to pass but you may be able to miss a day one off if you let them no you cant make it and sit the exams the next day in. We have six on farm discussion days which are mandatory to be at if you cant make them all you dont pass but can wait till the following year to do with next class.
We were in last friday and he told us that places for this mays course opened up 4 days prior and 56 of the 60 places were already gone.

curiousbuyer

Is this qualification the same as a green cert, does it give you the same entitlements?

thomand

yes it is/does

nashmach

thomand wrote: »

Started the course last may, Its 17 days in doing exams,farm walks etc. We got holidays july,august and back in end of sept,its about 1 day every 3-4 weeks at the minute due to finish up in june.
Its not always fridays, we have three days in a row coming up the end of february doing practicals. Done wednesdays aswel before but its mainly fridays. You have to sit all exams to pass but you may be able to miss a day one off if you let them no you cant make it and sit the exams the next day in. We have six on farm discussion days which are mandatory to be at if you cant make them all you dont pass but can wait till the following year to do with next class.
We were in last friday and he told us that places for this mays course opened up 4 days prior and 56 of the 60 places were already gone.

That sums it up well - not to be underestimated the amount of time you need to devote to it.

bigmcm

Thanks for the help thomond. I'm one of the 56 applied. Do you have to have a green cert to get the disadvantaged farm payment??

kieran12345

Thanks for the useful advise people.

But can someone explain inheritance or transfer if you are over 35 years old? (and the benefits of having green cert or not having it when you are over 35)

does the stamp duty apply if you are over 35? i don't no much about it and the previous threads only talk about if you are under 35.

Galroy_Tech

Kieran I've sent you a private message.