Safe level of training for an unfit 13 year old.

papac

My daughter will be 13 in a couple of weeks and has drifted away from games at school (not good at them) and is embarrassed to be seen out cycling with her dad.(she used to love it).She has become pretty unfit.
I have managed to convince her to try running with a view to maybe trying a bit of competitive cross country when she goes to secondary in September.She is built like a whippet and had a good engine when she was fit so she might make a decent runner.

I have a reasonable understanding of training basics but I am unsure of what level of training we should be thinking about.I reckon an adult beginners 10k program over the next few months and aim to be running 15-20k a week by september. (Mix of treadmill and outdoors)Does this seem reasonable.???

Also any links to training advice for teens would be appreciated.(or book recommendations)

mitresize5

get yourself and the daughter down to the local athletics club.

She'll be training with people her own age and coached by people whop have experience in it .... could open up a whole new world for her

donothoponpop

papac wrote: »

My daughter will be 13 in a couple of weeks and has drifted away from games at school (not good at them) and is embarrassed to be seen out cycling with her dad.(she used to love it).She has become pretty unfit.
I have managed to convince her to try running with a view to maybe trying a bit of competitive cross country when she goes to secondary in September.She is built like a whippet and had a good engine when she was fit so she might make a decent runner.

I have a reasonable understanding of training basics but I am unsure of what level of training we should be thinking about.I reckon an adult beginners 10k program over the next few months and aim to be running 15-20k a week by september. (Mix of treadmill and outdoors)Does this seem reasonable.???

Also any links to training advice for teens would be appreciated.(or book recommendations)

Are there any local Athletics clubs she could join? Getting into a group of friends who train together is one of the best ways to stick at it. There's a list of clubs throughout the country in this beginners thread at post no. 5, (also some good training programs listed). Failing that, keep an eye out for Community Games training in your area, which should be starting up soon (there goes my Tuesday and Thursday nights for the next while:D).

I'm sure other have better advice, but there's a start. Best of luck with her.

TheRoadRunner

Fair play to you for trying to get her involved again but an adults 10k program is not the way to go IMO. I have no training qualifications but have been involved in athletics since I was a kid. I agree with above poster regarding local athletics club. When I was 13 I trained 2 times a week and raced at the weekend. Training was not all running we use to do drills (boring) but played games that added to overall cardiovascular development. Cross country can be tough for kids especially if they are doing it solo. At that age refinding fitness won't be an issue in the right environment

papac

mitresize5 wrote: »

get yourself and the daughter down to the local athletics club.

She'll be training with people her own age and coached by people whop have experience in it .... could open up a whole new world for her

Unfortunately we live in a quite isolated area and she and her sister are pretty booked up with organized activity anyway so a club is not really an option.
Even if a club was an option her current level of unfitness would probably be an issue for her. (she has become quite concious of it,)

Thats why the plan to get her fit for September and secondary school where there is organised athletics.

RoyMcC

Agree with the above posters - a club based at a local track is the best introduction to athletics. But why does everyone imagine that distance running is the only option? A good club will offer sprints, jumps and throws as well as maybe longer distance. It's only a minority of youngsters that actually want to do distance - most enjoy the other events around ages 12-15. They learn new skills and can improve quickly. As RR says these activities will give the child a good level of fitness.

Edit - sorry, crossed with post #5. OP, what organised activities does she do?

papac

RoyMcC wrote: »

Edit - sorry, crossed with post #5. OP, what organised activities does she do?

Nothing physical.
She has a great interest in music and plays a couple of instruments.This is very time consuming. Problem is we live 10k from the nearest town so her mother is pretty snowed under time wise with activities.
A club just isn't on really.I'd love to take her to the local club but she is just at that self concious age where the very suggestion is rejected out of hand.

I was really involved in lots of clubs and sports growing up so I know exactly how good it is. Un fortunately our location/circumstances and her personality demand a different approach.

donothoponpop

If all you have is a field (say a football field) and an old casio stopwatch, you could try:

Tue- 3 laps slow jog warm up, followed by gentle stretches.
1 lap fast, half lap jog, 1 lap fast, half lap jog, 1 lap fast,
Rest a couple of minutes.
3 laps slow jog cool down.
(about 5k total)

Thurs- 3 laps slow jog warm up, followed by gentle stretches.
Fast short Sprints- (jog 20m, sprint 30m, jog 20m, sprint 30m)*3
Rest a couple of minutes
longer strides- run long diagonal of pitch comfortable stride pace (slower than racing), jog 50m very slow to next corner, run diagonal, do this for a few minutes, building up longer time as the weeks go by (over 10 minutes).
3 laps slow jog cool down.

Weekend- 10-15 laps easyish pace, shouldn't feel wrecked at the end. (5-6k total)

Thats a very generic plan we use for the Community Games (kids 10 to 15). Speed is determined by effort- sprint is all out, stride is running with long steps, easyish pace is a run (chatting feels a bit tough), jog feels very comfortable, chatting should be easy. Speeds improve as effort becomes easier.
Rule number one (the only rule): run to the line (always encourage those sprinting and striding distances to be covered, ie if striding 100m, run the full 100m, no slowing down 20m before the line.

It's very basic, (and I'm only a coach by reputation- "you're the fella who runs, will you train some kids" is my qualification), I'm sure you'll get better advice.

Oh yeah, the casio is there to make you feel official. Buy a whistle if you have more than a couple of kids joining in;)

RoyMcC

I would guess (but you'll know best) that your daughter's got a normal level of fitness for a 13 year-old - she's not overweight. I'd be wary of nagging her to get fit. In my experience 13 year-old daughters are not inclined to go along with what Dad thinks .

She'll quite likely find out what sports (if any) she enjoys doing once she moves to her new school. Unless she shows enthusiasm for running I most definitely would not set her off on d'pop's schedule - you risk turning her off active sport for good.

In short I wouldn't be too concerned in the same situation.

papac

RoyMcC wrote: »

I'd be wary of nagging her to get fit. In my experience 13 year-old daughters are not inclined to go along with what Dad thinks .

You can sing that!!
The thing is-she came around to this by herself. She knows the importance of fitness and actually suggested this.

I also agree about her finding her own sport activity at secondary but I would be a bit concerned that when a kid becomes unfit it can become a negative spiral.Unfit kids tend to get excluded from sports in a big busy school.

Woundedknee.

You need to be careful with this one I think and in short I'd agree with Roy and wouldn't be too worried.
It's not all about running or athletics and the best activity for a kid of that age is one they enjoy doing and there's something for everyone. Try them all and the activity that might suit best might not be the one she's best suited to but enjoys.
I have a 13 year old daughter and 9 year old son and when I'm coaching juvenile athletics my son is playing soccer and my daughter is boxing. They were doing athletics because I was but when I knew they weren't really enjoying it I told them to try something else and I didn't mind what they were doing once they were doing something.

RoyMcC

Woundedknee. wrote: »

my daughter is boxing

:eek: Look what that Katie Taylor started. But it illustrates well what opportunities youngsters have these days - though this forum hopes they'll all be athletes of course.

donothoponpop

RoyMcC wrote: »

Unless she shows enthusiasm for running I most definitely would not set her off on d'pop's schedule - you risk turning her off active sport for good.

Gulp! Too hard? We do this with about 30 kids each year, the have varied ability- its all done on effort, so the faster ones come in way in front of the slower, but "everyone runs to the line" and improves over a couple of months.

As I said, its very generic, but I thought it was an easy starter plan:o

Woundedknee.

RoyMcC wrote: »

:eek: Look what that Katie Taylor started. But it illustrates well what opportunities youngsters have these days - though this forum hopes they'll all be athletes of course.

Yeah thats very true but boxing 'runs' in the family

I think everyone needs to find their own game and although I run I don't push it.
Would make life a lot easier for me if the kids were involved in athletics.

Amazotheamazing

What sports does the secondary school she's going to offer? Maybe chat to her future PE teacher for some ideas?

RoyMcC

d'pop I didn't really evaluate your schedule - I'm sure it's fine. My point was that if you were to shove an unwilling child into an activity that they're not enthusiastic about then it could do more harm than good. By all means offer the opportunity.

My daughter was a pretty good javelin thrower and it broke my heart when she just gave it up one day. But I knew better than to go on about it and she's moved on into other areas quite happily.

donothoponpop

RoyMcC wrote: »

d'pop I didn't really evaluate your schedule - I'm sure it's fine. My point was that if you were to shove an unwilling child into an activity that they're not enthusiastic about then it could do more harm than good. By all means offer the opportunity.

My daughter was a pretty good javelin thrower and it broke my heart when she just gave it up one day. But I knew better than to go on about it and she's moved on into other areas quite happily.

Nothing truer, an overbearing parent is no good (but it seems the OP has an interested daughter, which is half the battle).

My son would rather play his Wii by the fire, than run up a boggy mountain on a wet Sunday in February. The fool.:D

papac

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

What sports does the secondary school she's going to offer? Maybe chat to her future PE teacher for some ideas?

Herein lies the crux of the matter. She is useless at sports. This is a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp. She has naturally poor coordination at the far end of the scale. All ball sports are out.The focus in school is on ballsports and she does not participate because of her lack of ability. Thus her current poor fitness and her interest in trying some running.

What my op was trying to get was some ideas as to what levels of training one should be looking at at her age.

papac

RoyMcC wrote: »

My daughter was a pretty good javelin thrower and it broke my heart when she just gave it up one day. .

I feel your pain.My girl and I used to cycle together loads. She loved it. I got her a little road bike and she was really getting strong.Then some older girl at school made some stupid remark and she hasn't been out on her bike for a year. I am hoping she may get into it again.

I am not in any way pushing her into this running thing,

SomeFool

papac wrote: »

I feel your pain.My girl and I used to cycle together loads. She loved it. I got her a little road bike and she was really getting strong.Then some older girl at school made some stupid remark and she hasn't been out on her bike for a year. I am hoping she may get into it again.

I am not in any way pushing her into this running thing,

Just a notion op but something like hillwalking once a week together might work for you, always a good day out and possibly look into orienteering as well. Mountain biking might be an option too.

donothoponpop

SomeFool wrote: »

Just a notion op but something like hillwalking once a week together might work for you, always a good day out and possibly look into orienteering as well. Mountain biking might be an option too.

Just to clarify SomeFool, I was joking (a bit!) here. My gig is hillrunning, great if they into it, but if not, no biggie, hopefully they'll be happy and healthy, and find a sport they like (and they've not yet reached the more difficult age that the OP's daughter has!). But yeah, we took them O'ing a couple of months back, and they loved it. Great sport, for all levels.:)

@ the OP: don't wish to push my "program" as there will be better advice out there, but 90% of the kids doing it are only there because they suck at ball/team sports. It's the slower kids, who have up till now been indoctrinated that they are crap, who get the biggest lift for "achieving" a "well done!" for running to the line, or doing 3 laps. Having said that, its easier for them as they are in a group. We're quite rural too, but there is usually a Community Games group in most rural areas that don't have a dedicated Athletics club. You might find an ad in the local paper asking about such groups would pay dividends. I know that loads of parents bring their kids to ours after a couple of months of it running, having just found out about it. Not saying there will be one for definite, just that they are out there.:)

Amazotheamazing

papac wrote: »

Herein lies the crux of the matter. She is useless at sports. This is a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp. She has naturally poor coordination at the far end of the scale. All ball sports are out.The focus in school is on ballsports and she does not participate because of her lack of ability. Thus her current poor fitness and her interest in trying some running.

What my op was trying to get was some ideas as to what levels of training one should be looking at at her age.

I was absolutely useless at ball sports too, I'd no co-ordination whatsoever. I was lucky I live near a rowing club which allowed me get better at running etc. Still gave up sports when I was 16 or so and am purely a social runner/triathlete now to keep fit and keep my weight down.

If ball sports aren't her thing but she'd like a team sport, is there a rowing club near where you live? They are usually populated (underage) by people who want to get fit but are crap at field sports and there's good camaraderie. I realise the time to get her rowing mightn't be available at the minute but when she starts school it might become an option worth considering.

kingQuez

papac wrote: »

Nothing physical.
She has a great interest in music and plays a couple of instruments.This is very time consuming. Problem is we live 10k from the nearest town so her mother is pretty snowed under time wise with activities.
A club just isn't on really.I'd love to take her to the local club but she is just at that self concious age where the very suggestion is rejected out of hand.

I was really involved in lots of clubs and sports growing up so I know exactly how good it is. Un fortunately our location/circumstances and her personality demand a different approach.

I live in dublin, but when we went to secondary school everyone cycled. All boys school, so it may be different again. I guess safety might be a concern where you're based (you say its rural), but with the summer coming up and secondary school looming would the potential independence of being able to cycle places on her bike overcome whatever comment was made to her at school? It sounds like it was something your daughter enjoyed and was ok at.

You could get her back out on the road with you a few times a week to get experience and some safety stuff going on over the rest of the winter, and when the summer comes she'd be back fit enough to cycle the 10k to town (so shes not relying on her mum) if there was any sports clubs or anything going on.

thirtyfoot

At 13 it should be fun. Doing an adults program with Dad wont be fun. Maybe don't worry about her fitness, let her start school and let her join the running group there. If you try to implement a training program in the interim you are more likely to do harm than good. She isn't unfit as she isn't fat. There will be unfitter kids at school.

runrabbit

papac wrote: »

What my op was trying to get was some ideas as to what levels of training one should be looking at at her age.

A 10K program aimed at adults is too much. At U13 she'd be running 2500M in cross-country, 3000M for U14. Training once/twice a week with maybe a family walk/cycle at the weekends would be more than enough - maybe one 30min jog and one other "session" like throwing in some hill-repeats (just 4 or so short hills). Include a few drills and stretches too.

Mr Slow

Any bit of exercise will help but I think what OP wants is to get her over her lack of confidence in relation to exercising with others. A Club that she can be brought to is the obvious solution but as OP says not possible. As someone else suggested get in contact with the school, try and arrange a meeting with the P.E. teacher and see if there are any extra curricular sports that she could get involved in now so that she's comfortable with the teacher and the other kids before she attends the school, it will also allow a bit of hand holding on the OP's part, something he won't get to do when she's in a school setting.

Mr Slow

thirtyfoot wrote: »

She isn't unfit as she isn't fat.

This is not accurate, when I started running I weighed 12 stone and at 6ft 1 looked extremely fit but I couldn't run a quarter mile, I can run a lot further now but weigh 12 and a half stone.

RoyMcC

mrslow wrote: »

This is not accurate, when I started running I weighed 12 stone and at 6ft 1 looked extremely fit but I couldn't run a quarter mile, I can run a lot further now but weigh 12 and a half stone.

But you're not 13 - at that age a child who is not overweight is generally naturally fit enough. Of course some are fitter than others. You're of course correct when referring to adults.

a_non_a_mouse

if joining a local club isn't an option...and you expect to be doing this alone, then you have got to get involved big time with whatever activity she is going to be doing.
Leaving the running behind for the moment, what about skipping, its a fantastic exercise and beating mom/bad is a great incentive. its also a very personal thing and improving on what was done last time is the target and kids buy into that big time.
Basketball? A basketball set out the back yard/garden if you have room is great, but mom/dad have to get involved.
I know what you are saying about being badly co-ordinated and that probably a huge deal in school, but in the confines of home it might not be such an issue.
Also, I found skipping helped my son with co-ordination. At the age of 10 he had the co-ordination of a new born giraffe and couldn't skip 5 times in a row.
practice and soon he could do 200 almost in a spot.
Skipping is claimed to improve running efficiency also and it can be done at home. Running on the roads could invite some comments especially if she's struggling in the early days.

But best of luck with whatever you decide.
Its a pity more people don't take an interest in their childrens health and fitness

papac

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

. Running on the roads could invite some comments especially if she's struggling in the early days.

But best of luck with whatever you decide.
Its a pity more people don't take an interest in their childrens health and fitness

We have use of a quite good treadmill.

The good thing is she's taking an interest herself as she was quite fit up to a year or so ago and knows she felt better.The running was her own idea-her mother and aunt were respectable competitive runners and their dad was a top class cross country runner so I think she may be getting a bit of inspiration from there.

Right.
Assuming we have given it some thought and we ARE going running-any more opinions on a suitable amount of training.

For now we are NOT joining a club.

Thanks to everyone for all the input so far.

spurscormac

papac wrote: »

We have use of a quite good treadmill.

The good thing is she's taking an interest herself as she was quite fit up to a year or so ago and knows she felt better.The running was her own idea-her mother and aunt were respectable competitive runners and their dad was a top class cross country runner so I think she may be getting a bit of inspiration from there.

Right.
Assuming we have given it some thought and we ARE going running-any more opinions on a suitable amount of training.

For now we are NOT joining a club.

Thanks to everyone for all the input so far.

Caitriona McKiernan started by just running around a field at home. Can't offer any specific coaching, but would it be worth suggesting to start with she just runs a circuit for as long as she feels able, possibly 30 mins max.

Let her start at that, get back some of her lost fitness and go from there before implementing a "regime".

dna_leri

spurscormac wrote: »

Caitriona McKiernan started by just running around a field at home. Can't offer any specific coaching, but would it be worth suggesting to start with she just runs a circuit for as long as she feels able, possibly 30 mins max.

Let her start at that, get back some of her lost fitness and go from there before implementing a "regime".

I can't believe it took 31 posts to get to that. If the girl wants to run, then go out and run. She does not want to skip, play ball, hike or join a club - fine. Don't over analyse it, don't worry about a training program.
1. Get her a pair of runners,
2. find a suitable field/park/beach and run around a few times at a comfortable pace.

She may hate it. If she does not, she might want to run again, if so repeat step 2. Let her set the pace that she runs at and how often. If she continues to enjoy it and gains confidence, then think about a training program or finding a way to participate with others of a similar age.

Just do it

thirtyfoot

mrslow wrote: »

This is not accurate, when I started running I weighed 12 stone and at 6ft 1 looked extremely fit but I couldn't run a quarter mile, I can run a lot further now but weigh 12 and a half stone.

Were you 13 though, that's my obvious point.