Poolbeg incinerator

stoneill

How does a private operator negotiate a deal with councils that it gets paid if there is not enough raw material to operate?


"A proposed incinerator at Poolbeg in Dublin could cost the city’s four councils between €187m and €350m in penalties, according to a new report."

http://insideireland.ie/2011/01/31/poolbeg-incinerator-could-cost-councils-e350m-6103/

energyguru

There's now A NEW technology for dealing with domestic/municipal waste that has ZERO landfill, ZERO incineration, ZERO emissions and comes fully funded - .i.e. ZERO cost to the state (you & me) ! Is it too late for Dublin & Poolbeg with Covanta saying they finally have finance for the Poolbeg Incinerator - surely environmental concerns and cost to taxpayer should force a closer inspection of all the options.

RandolphEsq

energyguru wrote: »

There's now A NEW technology for dealing with domestic/municipal waste that has ZERO landfill, ZERO incineration, ZERO emissions and comes fully funded - .i.e. ZERO cost to the state (you & me) ! Is it too late for Dublin & Poolbeg with Covanta saying they finally have finance for the Poolbeg Incinerator - surely environmental concerns and cost to taxpayer should force a closer inspection of all the options.

What is this new technology?

energyguru

It's a patented process with a unique seperator and a bespoke chemical process, utilising acid,steam & yeast - with all the benefits outlined above - and a 72 hour output cycle.

It also produces typically 30% greater output of biofuel than it's nearest competing process.

wonderfulname

Oh do enlighten me as to the mechanics of this wonderful process, if its patented I'm sure you wouldn't mind sharing...

energyguru

See the following link which was listed on The Times, Business section on Jan 3 2010


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article6973972.ece

wonderfulname

This isn't new, nor does it promise any of the things you claim in your first post.

Are you just assuming I don't understand the concept in general or is the main method discussed in the piece the one of which you speak? Because it certainly doesn't sound like it. You will find that private waste management companies such as Greenstar are already investing in such projects, and the incinerator you are giving out about is a waste-to-energy plant, abet not a particularly efficient one, but I invite you to tell me what is wrong with it as an engineering concept (not the social or monetary repercussions, which I know are ridiculous).
All these projects cost money, as does everything in life,I don't know if you read the article you linked but it mentions a 30 billion pound investment required to implement such a system in the UK, yes it would be much less for Ireland but it certainly wouldn't be zero, and we certainly could not afford it - if it were managed privately of course people would have to pay, services don't come free. Overall it will be impossible for any waste management system to have zero emissions so you can give up on that one. Landfills are no longer a sound investment in Ireland so I do not foresee them being an issue in future and to be honest there is nothing wrong with incineration as a concept, just the idiotic one planned for Dublin.

hardCopy

stoneill wrote: »

How does a private operator negotiate a deal with councils that it gets paid if there is not enough raw material to operate?


"A proposed incinerator at Poolbeg in Dublin could cost the city’s four councils between €187m and €350m in penalties, according to a new report."

http://insideireland.ie/2011/01/31/poolbeg-incinerator-could-cost-councils-e350m-6103/

I'd imagine they were smart enough to realise that it would be pointless to invest if they didn't have some buffer to protect them from potential public backlash against incineration.

It would be unwise to invest so much unless they could be guaranteed enough energy production to pay for it.

wonderfulname

hardCopy wrote: »

I'd imagine they were smart enough to realise that it would be pointless to invest if they didn't have some buffer to protect them from potential public backlash against incineration.

It would be unwise to invest so much unless they could be guaranteed enough energy production to pay for it.

Its not just potential public backlash, and the energy aspect is actually a secondary source of income - for every , this plant won't pay for itself regardless of waste intake. On that point the council takes in only a tiny portion of the waste needed to run such a facility, approx 1/3 of what they have promised to provide and 1/6 of the capacity of the plant. The only way they can provide the necessary volumes is via a monopoly over waste management in the greater Dublin area, this will put the already struggling private sector out of business, massively affecting employment in the area, it will quite obviously ruin competition as well as removing incentive to create innovative and green methods of waste disposal (a landfill has a typical lifetime of 10years, the companies that run them are looking into more sustainable and long-term solutions to take over upon their closure). Covanta have already used these tactics in the US to detrimental effect.

hardCopy

wonderfulname wrote: »

Its not just potential public backlash, and the energy aspect is actually a secondary source of income - for every , this plant won't pay for itself regardless of waste intake. On that point the council takes in only a tiny portion of the waste needed to run such a facility, approx 1/3 of what they have promised to provide and 1/6 of the capacity of the plant. The only way they can provide the necessary volumes is via a monopoly over waste management in the greater Dublin area, this will put the already struggling private sector out of business, massively affecting employment in the area, it will quite obviously ruin competition as well as removing incentive to create innovative and green methods of waste disposal (a landfill has a typical lifetime of 10years, the companies that run them are looking into more sustainable and long-term solutions to take over upon their closure). Covanta have already used these tactics in the US to detrimental effect.

I haven't made my own mind up on the issue of whether we should incinerate or not. But the council decided they were for it and I can see why an incinerating company would want guarantees before building it, whether they got the waste volumes or not. Otherwise they could end up with an empty incinerator for several years if the greens got a majority in the council.