Emigration

Tapes

I am getting very annoyed at all the people on the radio and tv making emigration sound like the end of the world, i know that back in the 80s emigration was a very lonely thing alot of people didnt even have a phone and if they did international calls were very expensive but these days you have facebook, email, cheap international phone calls, skype, text messages and cheap flights, there was a man on the frontline last night almost in tears about his childrens emigration to germany wtf these days with ryanair moving to germany is no different than moving from cork to galway.

Wolfe Tone

His children have moved away, they may never live in Ireland again, he may see his grandkids only occasionally. Take rural family life, very closed knit in the main, thats destroyed by emigration, entire communities get ravaged as only the old remain, yeah its a big deal.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

20Cent

Of course emigration is a tragedy, the country losing so many young people who can't make a living in Ireland. Heartbreaking for families torn apart.

Tapes

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

His children have moved away, they may never live in Ireland again, he may see his grandkids only occasionally. Take rural family life, very closed knit in the main, thats destroyed by emigration, entire communities get ravaged as only the old remain, yeah its a big deal.

The fact is there will never be a job for everybody in rural ireland.

Tapes

20Cent wrote: »

Of course emigration is a tragedy, the country losing so many young people who can't make a living in Ireland. Heartbreaking for families torn apart.

The only reason we had full employment during the "boom" was because young lads could work on a building site building houses that we didnt need earning €700+ per week, that was not normal and will never happen again.

zig

I agree to an extent, but you cant compare someone moving from cork to galway with someone going abroad. Its just not that black and white, why is it that anyone i know that has emigrated only comes back once a year if even. And this would be people in Europe, never mind Oz or Canada. My point is, its all well and good to say "Ryanair flight,bla bla" but the truth is thats not how it works.
You are right about communication, there really is no excuse for lack of communication using skype, mobile phones etc. But I think its easy for us young people to say that, but if you were a parent and all three of your kids moved to another country because they couldnt get work , there'd be a feeling of shame and sadness over it.

dan_d

I'm not a parent so I don't know how it feels from that point of view.

But I will say one thing.It's a hell of a lot different to leave because you want to, as opposed to leaving because you have to.

We are considering emigration, and while part of me wants it....part of me is so,so angry that I'm being forced into this situation. It's not the be-all and end-all, and it's not what it was 30 years ago. But nor is it right to let a country come to a stage where the only solution for people to have any kind of life is to leave.

I could cite so many examples of people I know having moved to the UK...they come home every 5 weeks or so.I know of one who is going shortly (after 5 years of work here, and 6 months of unemployment) and is fairly miserable about leaving his friends and family.I know a couple who are recently engaged - she's here, he's in the UK.He's home about every 5 weeks, they are planning to wed next year, but they've no idea what the future holds for them. All of her relatives bar one live abroad and her parents are elderly. I know another couple in the Middle East - both with very elderly parents, neither with much hope of coming home soon.And a third couple where he went to Dubai after a year of unemployment (and a proposal), and she's stuck here, in their house.I've got no idea when he'll be able to come back at all, or what they'll do. And I know of one family where 3 of the 4 children have emigrated to Australia- the most recent was in January.

I could go on and on and on, but I won't, because we all know the stories.
It's not a tragedy per se, but it's not something to be taken lightly.It's a total disgrace that it has actually become built into economic policy at this stage.

As I said before, it's one thing to go because you want to - there's hope for your parents you may come back - but it's another thing to go because you have to and there's no other option. That takes away what little hope your parents may have.

Next time you're wondering why people are so distraught over it, I suggest you read post no 313 in this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056081109&page=21

It should answer all your questions.

liammur

Emigration is certainly not as hard today as it was maybe 20+ years ago given the advances in technology etc. But only a fool would say emigration is a great thing. It's a very hard choice for some, and not so hard for others.

southsiderosie

On the one hand, I agree that emigration can be a great adventure, especially for young people. And I had a fine time in Europe over the past few years working on projects that I was interested in, meeting cool people, and experiencing different cultures.

That said, I was VERY relieved to come home to the US. Most of my family is still here, my parents are getting older, and personally I found being so far away from family and friends really hard, especially during the holidays. And ultimately the decision to move abroad was mine; it wasn't something I felt I needed to do to keep a roof over my head, or to support my family.

In this day and age, I don't see how moving to the UK is that big of a deal: they speak the same language, have many cultural similarities, and from an American perspective, the distance from Dublin to London is smaller than what most of us experience just to go to university. To a certain extent, moving away is just part of growing up, and in rural areas across the industrialized world, it is pretty much a rite of passage; Ireland is not unique in this regard, even if they are later to the game. But moving to the US or Australia is a much bigger and more permanent proposition, especially since the visa regimes are quite different.

Ultimately, I think the Irish people have a right to be angry about the situation, especially given that people thought the days of "sure we can't all live on a small island" were over and done with. And sadly, the blase attitude of much of the political leadership towards emigration doesn't seem to have changed much since the 1980s.

southsiderosie

Here's an interesting critique of how emigration has been handled as a political issue in Ireland since the 1930s. I think the closing paragraphs sum things up pretty well:

Now people are leaving again. The spin machine is again in overdrive as new versions of old myths and half-truths are dusted off and recycled. Young people, says the Tánaiste, are 'going abroad and enjoying themselves'. To be sure, there is some distance between the American Wake and the world of Skype, the provincial newspapers on the internet and affordable international air travel. But the underlying reality is that the State, for the third time since independence, has spectacularly failed its own citizens and has cynically sought to find a way out of its crisis, inter alia, by pressing the 'export' button all over again. Those who have to leave lose everything all over again, including any right to have their voices heard in the political process in Ireland – a process whose antediluvian, corrupt and clientelist nature is a large part of the problem in the first place.

The bottom line is that governments and elites are directly and serially responsible for policies which have led to high, unnecessary and involuntary emigration. They are responsible for the hypocrisy, silence, denial and spin which has always surrounded the issue in public and political discourse. Once again, the woes of the country are being addressed at be behest of those who have; it is those who have not who are being made to pay the price.

ulinbac

zig wrote: »

But I think its easy for us young people to say that, but if you were a parent and all three of your kids moved to another country because they couldnt get work , there'd be a feeling of shame and sadness over it.

I honestly don't see where there is shame involved from moving, even in an economic crisis. Its an opportunity1

I agree it is extremelyit is hard for families, but as a person emigrating (with parents who also did) in the next few months, I believe the opportunity needs to be embraced. I have family in Australia and the US who emigrated long before I came along and they say it was the best decision they ever made whilst still keeping in contact with family. There are so many Irish out in Australia now that Bondai Beach is being called County Bondai. 20/30 years ago it was a lot bigger deal.

Also, you cannot learn world class skills in Ireland. If you want to better your skills, in any line of work you will need to emigrate, not just in recession but in boom. Considering that Asia wil be the next big competitor in nearly all areas, why not go there? Get to know the competition . The more diverse and culturally aware one is the better and when/if people decide to return home will that not be better for the country than everyone staying here on welfare as they will be able to offer more.

later12

Tapes wrote: »

I am getting very annoyed at all the people on the radio and tv making emigration sound like the end of the world, i know that back in the 80s emigration was a very lonely thing alot of people didnt even have a phone and if they did international calls were very expensive but these days you have facebook, email, cheap international phone calls, skype, text messages and cheap flights, there was a man on the frontline last night almost in tears about his childrens emigration to germany wtf these days with ryanair moving to germany is no different than moving from cork to galway.

Leaving aside the economic impact that a substantial migration of a young educated workforce can have on a small economy I agree with you. For the emigrant, it can be a fantastic opportunity. Like another poster, I see no reason why a young Irish man or woman who have strong aspirations for their future would stay in Ireland. It just doesn't make sense to me but they obviously have their reasons since not quite everybody is leaving.

However, I can fully understand why emigration can have a devestating effect on families and communities. Twitter and Facebook do not replace grandchildren, do not fill up local sports clubs and have a tremendously deleterious effect on small, local economies, thus aggravating the problems that gave rise to the initial emigration and joblessness, causing a positive feedback loop.

So it just isn't all one sided. Emigration can be wonderful for the emigrant, but disastrous for those left behind and particularly so in rural communities.

nickobrien1985

Emigration?

The Paddies have basically invaded Bondi down Sydney, it might as well be considered Irish territory now

nickobrien1985

Emigration is great, I left Ireland for 2.5yrs (during the boom years) and it was the best thing I ever did. Got great work experience, learned a new language, met people of lots of different countries (unlike those down OZ), had foreign girlfriends (foreign birds much hotter), broadened my horizons, collected many stamps in me passport

Its great to see that different perspectives and views on the world, and get away from that generic UCD/Fade St/snobbish D4 fake life.

n900guy

Tapes wrote: »

I am getting very annoyed at all the people on the radio and tv making emigration sound like the end of the world, i know that back in the 80s emigration was a very lonely thing alot of people didnt even have a phone and if they did international calls were very expensive but these days you have facebook, email, cheap international phone calls, skype, text messages and cheap flights, there was a man on the frontline last night almost in tears about his childrens emigration to germany wtf these days with ryanair moving to germany is no different than moving from cork to galway.

It's not the individuals, it's that the productive work of a generation will contribute to other countries development; Ireland will not have a generation of people to develop it out of the mire of the FFinancial mess.

bmarley

Emigration should not be seen as such a huge problem, particularly for the younger generation. It does not mean that these young people will never return. During the 80's it was commonplace to move to England or America in search of employment. Many of these people progressed well and managed to save money to buy property on their return to Ireland. Even during the boom years, the younger generations became much more adventurous taking career breaks etc to travel the world. Many now have friends and family living in all corners of the world so they will have that support when they get there. On the other hand, it is different for families who have to emigrate to find employment or fathers that have to leave their partners/children here so that they can send money home to pay for their mortgages. This is happening on an increasing scale.

pragmatic1

southsiderosie wrote: »

On the one hand, I agree that emigration can be a great adventure, especially for young people. And I had a fine time in Europe over the past few years working on projects that I was interested in, meeting cool people, and experiencing different cultures.

That said, I was VERY relieved to come home to the US. Most of my family is still here, my parents are getting older, and personally I found being so far away from family and friends really hard, especially during the holidays. And ultimately the decision to move abroad was mine; it wasn't something I felt I needed to do to keep a roof over my head, or to support my family.

In this day and age, I don't see how moving to the UK is that big of a deal: they speak the same language, have many cultural similarities, and from an American perspective, the distance from Dublin to London is smaller than what most of us experience just to go to university. To a certain extent, moving away is just part of growing up, and in rural areas across the industrialized world, it is pretty much a rite of passage; Ireland is not unique in this regard, even if they are later to the game. But moving to the US or Australia is a much bigger and more permanent proposition, especially since the visa regimes are quite different.

Ultimately, I think the Irish people have a right to be angry about the situation, especially given that people thought the days of "sure we can't all live on a small island" were over and done with. And sadly, the blase attitude of much of the political leadership towards emigration doesn't seem to have changed much since the 1980s.

Rosie we're the Puerto Ricans of Europe.

nickobrien1985

nickobrien1985 wrote: »

Emigration is great, I left Ireland for 2.5yrs (during the boom years) and it was the best thing I ever did.

A few years travelling is not emigration, maybe thats why so many on this thread think emigration is no big deal!
Emigration is a permanently move

nickobrien1985

Deleted User wrote: »

A few years travelling is not emigration, maybe thats why so many on this thread think emigration is no big deal!
Emigration is a permanently move

I was lived in another country and work in a good job.

Is emigration a permanent move? says who?
What happens if you move and several years later decide to go home? was that just travelling?

southsiderosie

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Rosie we're the Puerto Ricans of Europe.

Funny you should say that...I went to a conference on Puerto Rico last week and Ireland came up a lot. Small island nation, tax policies that draw in American multinationals, nearly bankrupt government, history of emigration, no control over monetary policy...sound familiar? But they may be in even worse shape than Ireland: they have 10% of California's population, but 47% of their debt.

p1akuw47h5r3it

southsiderosie wrote: »

Funny you should say that...I went to a conference on Puerto Rico last week and Ireland came up a lot. Small island nation, tax policies that draw in American multinationals, nearly bankrupt government, history of emigration, no control over monetary policy...sound familiar? But they may be in even worse shape than Ireland: they have 10% of California's population, but 47% of their debt.

Why does Puerto Rico not have control over it's monetary policy? (or where u referring to Ireland)

Also i agree with the OP. However as has been said, a person having to leave to work with a wife and 2 kids is a lot different then a 22 year old graduate. Also it is my understanding that in the 80's people tended to emigrate right out of secondary school, so would have been 17,18 (I may be wrong however). However now the majority of school leavers go onto some sort of further education, therefore emigrate at an older age. More mature and better ready. I would have been terrified having to leave right after school (when I was 17,I am 18 now and the thought of living on my own in a foreign country is fairly scary)

I believe people around my age are not in as a worse position as some of us may think. The majority of us received (more or less) free education and shouldn't have much reason to have debt, or any severe debt. Whilst I believe I will have to emigrate, I wouldn't say I am looking forward to it, however I don't see it as a really horrible thing to do. I guess in a sense we're just carrying on an old Irish tradition!

I like to think mistakes made by the current goverment will probably not be repeated again, again advantageousness benefitting people near or around my age.

southsiderosie

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Why does Puerto Rico not have control over it's monetary policy? (or where u referring to Ireland).

Because they aren't independent; it's a US territory.

theroad

DanDan6592 wrote: »

however I don't see it as a really horrible thing to do. I guess in a sense we're just carrying on an old Irish tradition!

Emigration is potentially great for the emigrant but always catastrophic for the country that's left behind. Just think what a difference the thousands of people who left in the '80s could have made if they had been able to build a life in Ireland. That cliche about those with get up and go, got up and went is largely true. In the economy, emigration depresses activity and acts as a brake on development. Politically and socially, it is a pressure valve and therefore ultimately serves the interests of those benefiting from the status quo. One of the reasons we don't have riots here nowadays is because those most likely to do so are leaving the country instead, in droves. Government knows this, and is content to see it happen. The de facto policy of emigration is, in my opinion, one of our political masters' unforgiveable failures.

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I like to think mistakes made by the current goverment will probably not be repeated again, again advantageousness benefitting people near or around my age.

You may like to think the government's mistakes will not be repeated, there is, however, little evidence to support your view! The likelihood is that the mistakes of the last 10 years will be repeated in some form or another just as soon as the country scrapes together enough cash to spend again.

p1akuw47h5r3it

theroad wrote: »

Emigration is potentially great for the emigrant but always catastrophic for the country that's left behind. Just think what a difference the thousands of people who left in the '80s could have made if they had been able to build a life in Ireland. That cliche about those with get up and go, got up and went is largely true. In the economy, emigration depresses activity and acts as a brake on development. Politically and socially, it is a pressure valve and therefore ultimately serves the interests of those benefiting from the status quo. One of the reasons we don't have riots here nowadays is because those most likely to do so are leaving the country instead, in droves. Government knows this, and is content to see it happen. The de facto policy of emigration is, in my opinion, one of our political masters' unforgiveable failures.

Yes I agree with you on all these points. My opinion was more based from a personal point of view, or from the viewpoint of the younger generation.

You may like to think the government's mistakes will not be repeated, there is, however, little evidence to support your view! The likelihood is that the mistakes of the last 10 years will be repeated in some form or another just as soon as the country scrapes together enough cash to spend again.

haha well I guess I can live in hope, though you obviously have more experience in this regard.

p1akuw47h5r3it

southsiderosie wrote: »

Because they aren't independent; it's a US territory.

Oh, i never knew that. I knew that American Samoa was though

jank

I think it all depends. Emigration is not good for a country especially as rural as ireland. Towns and villages deserted of its young cannot be good.
It is easier now a days though but that doesnt it make it easy, it is still hard.

It is one thing to emigrate to the UK but those further flung like those in OZ or NZ, it is still a long way away. Cheap flights? Maybe in europe cause it would cost me about $2000 to fly home!

marcusfeloni

I would like to emmigrate if it were possible for me. Cant see any future here not for a long time to come. The news gets worse all the time, seem to be living on a creschendo of bad news followed by some trivial feel good story about a cross eyed polar bear in a german zoo that had corrective eye surgery, and thankfully all is well says the smiling reporter!!! Had enough of this!!

chicken fingers

Most of those "emirating" to aus are on 1 year working holiday visas.

bonkers

So many Irish people want to come home and see their future in Ireland and want a vote here! Big interest in www.ballotbox.ie it seems by their Facebook

hinault

Tapes wrote: »

I am getting very annoyed at all the people on the radio and tv making emigration sound like the end of the world, i know that back in the 80s emigration was a very lonely thing alot of people didnt even have a phone and if they did international calls were very expensive but these days you have facebook, email, cheap international phone calls, skype, text messages and cheap flights, there was a man on the frontline last night almost in tears about his childrens emigration to germany wtf these days with ryanair moving to germany is no different than moving from cork to galway.

Emigration, where it is a necessity not a choice, is not good.
It is not good for the individual nor is it good for the State.

It is not good for the individual because the decision to emigrate has been forced on him/her. They're emigrating to make a life for themselves which ordinarily they would choose to make in the country of their birth and upbringing.
It is also not good for the immediate relatives of the person because they're deprived of direct access to their loved one.
No amount of telephone call or cheap Ryanair flights can replace the proximity of a loved one.

Emigration is not good for this State either.
The cost of educational capital lost is one issue when a person has to emigrate.
The cost of social capital lost is another issue - if the person stayed here he/she would be adding to their community, family and workplace.
Emigration is also the sign of a country's inability to provide a basic economic environment in which a person can secure a job.
As human beings we all need security and to a job or a means of earning a living is the most basic form of security.
By making emigration a necessity for the individual, it is clear that this State has failed economically.
Human capital is this country's most prized possession.

When emigration is a necessity and not a choice, there is no upside either for the individual or the State.

virmilitaris

People go where the work is. Simple as that.

The fact of the matter is that we don't have enough jobs for our population. The boom was economic insanity in action.

People are going to emigrate out of necessity and I don't think thats such a bad thing. I emigrated during the boom and I just got married to a wonderful woman in what you mght call my adopted land. Im well on the way to learning a new language well and I'm studying for free with a scholarship in a foreign university for my msc.

Mabe ill come home in the future but I don't really see the point except for sentimental reasons.

FTA69

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Ha! I ended up working in an industrial waste disposal facility in Hackney; sounds like I got the thin end of the emigration wedge!

ming64

I too emmirated in late 80's. Did not do as well as you seem to have done, I did go back to college got myself a good job and had great fun. Then in 2001 after having our 2nd child we decided to return to Ireland, thinking it was the best place to raise our children. What a mistake that was. I have not worked since we came back as my qualifications are not recognised here. Buried uder a mortgage, car payments and credit card, we now feel like we are doomed. We never got involved in this whold Celtic Tiger business but still can not seem to get ahead. I am wondering did you return to the US or are you still here. We are considering trying to rent our house, we live in rural Roscommon and return to USA. We figure that we can work our ass off here for the next 10 years and still be no further on, because that is what has happened for the first 10 years that we are home. NO vacations or anythinf of the sort over the last number of years. Or we could go back work hard and in 5 years time we will be back on our feet .
Very torn as to what to do.

dpe

Speaking as an emigre (to Ireland, from the UK), its not exactly a hardship these days. Frankly I see my family as much as I ever did.

When my daughter grows up I'll actively encourage her to spend at least some time working abroad, even if its only to go back to the old country and explore her English roots (LOL).

anymore

zig wrote: »

I agree to an extent, but you cant compare someone moving from cork to galway with someone going abroad. Its just not that black and white, why is it that anyone i know that has emigrated only comes back once a year if even. And this would be people in Europe, never mind Oz or Canada. My point is, its all well and good to say "Ryanair flight,bla bla" but the truth is thats not how it works.
You are right about communication, there really is no excuse for lack of communication using skype, mobile phones etc. But I think its easy for us young people to say that, but if you were a parent and all three of your kids moved to another country because they couldnt get work , there'd be a feeling of shame and sadness over it.

Look a big part of the reason some only come back once a year,is because they are living thier lives. To be honest I have seen quite afew cases where the kids come back spend the minimum amount of time with the parents and the rest out enjoying themselves. As a parent I accept that is just the way - we are thier parents not thier friends - thats life.
There are plenty of parents in Irleand with kids in Ireland who see precious little of their kids.

Clareboy

The reality is that the Irish have to emigrate in order to facilitate the new multi culturalism. Since we opened the flood gates to foreign immigrants, we have created a totally distorted labour market and our own people are the losers.

ulinbac

Clareboy wrote: »

The reality is that the Irish have to emigrate in order to facilitate the new multi culturalism. Since we opened the flood gates to foreign immigrants, we have created a totally distorted labour market and our own people are the losers.

Clareboy, what a narrow-minded and naive view you have. That is in no way true. What about all the Irish that have emigrated throughoutt the decades. It is a simple fact people emigrated to work, not due to "multi-culturalism". Would that not explain the reason why there were so many Irish around the world before 2007?

To be honest it is better for people to emigrate for a while in their fields of work as you will not get world class experience in anything in Ireland!!! Most of the young people that have emigrated are only gone for a year or two and it's more like a holiday than hardship.

Also, the immigrants that came to Ireland were here to do the jobs that the Irish wouldn't so when people say "oh they took our jobs" is ridiculous.

Clareboy

ulinbac wrote: »

Clareboy, what a narrow-minded and naive view you have. That is in no way true. What about all the Irish that have emigrated throughoutt the decades. It is a simple fact people emigrated to work, not due to "multi-culturalism". Would that not explain the reason why there were so many Irish around the world before 2007?

To be honest it is better for people to emigrate for a while in their fields of work as you will not get world class experience in anything in Ireland!!! Most of the young people that have emigrated are only gone for a year or two and it's more like a holiday than hardship.

Also, the immigrants that came to Ireland were here to do the jobs that the Irish wouldn't so when people say "oh they took our jobs" is ridiculous.

First of all, this idea that the Irish went all over the world is a myth. The vast majority of Irish emigrants went to the UK, the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. With the exeption of the UK, the Irish went to the New World, to countries with vast wide open spaces, unlimited natural resources and mineral wealth.

As regards the immigrants doing the jobs the Irish would not do - how did we ever keep the country running and businesses operating before the immigrants arrived here in the early years of the 21st century? You tell me!

JustinDee

Clareboy wrote: »

The reality is that the Irish have to emigrate in order to facilitate the new multi culturalism. Since we opened the flood gates to foreign immigrants, we have created a totally distorted labour market and our own people are the losers.

Rubbish.
Its perfectly normal. If its good enough for Paddy to do, its good enough for anyone else.
Would you prefer everyone just stayed put? How wonderful and enlightened.


.

Dob74

JustinDee wrote: »

Rubbish.
Its perfectly normal. If its good enough for Paddy to do, its good enough for anyone else.
Would you prefer everyone just stayed put? How wonderful and enlightened.


.

Neo-Liberal bull.
First of all there is no historical links with eastern europe and ireland.
It was an economic scam to enrich the incompetent managers of our economy.
We should be bringing in outsiders to run our finanical regulation not pump petrol.
Emigration should be regulated oz, canada, the US they dont throw open the flood gates to us or to anybody. Thats the way we should of had it.

JustinDee

Dob74 wrote: »

Neo-Liberal bull.
First of all there is no historical links with eastern europe and ireland.
It was an economic scam to enrich the incompetent managers of our economy.
We should be bringing in outsiders to run our finanical regulation not pump petrol.
Emigration should be regulated oz, canada, the US they dont throw open the flood gates to us or to anybody. Thats the way we should of had it.

Neo-liberal bull? Lol
Just speaking from experience. You should try it yourself. Would do you the world of good. Really does broaden horizons and opportunities. Did for me and anyone else I know.

washman3

Anybody got the present immigration figures, think it was about 1000 a week leaving this time last year. would that be correct??

dpe

Dob74 wrote: »

Neo-Liberal bull.
First of all there is no historical links with eastern europe and ireland.
It was an economic scam to enrich the incompetent managers of our economy.
We should be bringing in outsiders to run our finanical regulation not pump petrol.
Emigration should be regulated oz, canada, the US they dont throw open the flood gates to us or to anybody. Thats the way we should of had it.

Yes there are; you're both part of the EU. Get over it. Free movement of labour is part of the deal; which plenty of Irish lads are grateful for as the flow of labour moves the other way. Lets get something clear; "emigration" in 2011 is not the one way ticket to a new life it was as recently as 30 years ago, its just globalisation in action; its not a particularly Irish phenomenon, its just part of the ebb and flow of economics, and most of these so-called emigres will be back.

And I think you mean "immigration" should be regulated (which it is), I hope you don't mean people should be stopped from leaving!

ulinbac

Clareboy wrote: »

First of all, this idea that the Irish went all over the world is a myth. The vast majority of Irish emigrants went to the UK, the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. With the exeption of the UK, the Irish went to the New World, to countries with vast wide open spaces, unlimited natural resources and mineral wealth.

As regards the immigrants doing the jobs the Irish would not do - how did we ever keep the country running and businesses operating before the immigrants arrived here in the early years of the 21st century? You tell me!

Well as far as I can see the countries you mention are basically the four corners of the globe!!! The land mass of these alone must be at least half of world's land mass (they are big places you know...). You also forgot the strong contingent of Irish that are in mainland Europe like France and Germany and don't forget China and Japan (massive crowd there). So that means the Irish are located in 4 continents, pretty big no? The Irish went to where they believed the could earn a good living and make money, as the immigrants did when they came here and rightly so. They did not say "The US has great oil reserves, gold and are the reserve currency of the world so must be the best choice". The reason we all have friends and family moving there now is MONEY and that is the reason we had immigrants. We needed to sustain a risiing labour force to accommodate the increase in economic growth. A large portion of those "immigrants" coming into the country were people returning back to Ireland who were skilled in the like of the pharmaceutical sector.

Ireland also turned from net emigration to immigration in the mid-nineies, so they didn't just turn up over night. It is simple really, without the people from the likes of eastern Europe who did the unskilled labour (like pour your tea and serve your lunch) Ireland would not have the growth it did. Many of these people were in-fact highly trained. From a personal point I know a PE teacher who wasn't allowed to teach and a Doctor who was a florist because it wasn't recognised here.

It was really annoying when we had a lot of foreign people working here and Irish people saying "they are taking our jobs", again ridiculous. Can you honestly tell me that a qualified engineer, tradesman would have taken a job in a restaurant? Not likely. The Irish workforce was too skilled for these position's in general due to free tertiary education etc. Can you tell me who were going to fill these position's?

So even-though, the Irish kept the running of business' going these immigrants you don't seem to like were an essential backbone to them, from serving coffee to working on the buildings.

No offence but it sounds like you have a grudge and never been the other side of the barrier. The majority of my family emigrated but parents came back. Brother is gone (since 2005 when times were good) and I'm gone in September as secured a job abroad, why did they and I do it?, for money. better jobs and a better life! So this multi-culturalistic and typical old Irish frame of mind you are spreading needs to get off it's high horse (possibly read an economics book about this stuff) and open your eyes!

anymore

Clareboy wrote: »

First of all, this idea that the Irish went all over the world is a myth. The vast majority of Irish emigrants went to the UK, the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. With the exeption of the UK, the Irish went to the New World, to countries with vast wide open spaces, unlimited natural resources and mineral wealth.

As regards the immigrants doing the jobs the Irish would not do - how did we ever keep the country running and businesses operating before the immigrants arrived here in the early years of the 21st century? You tell me!

In fact many of us are still doing the kind of work that..... uumph, apparently we are not willing to ! Does that mean we are invisible ?
.

dsmythy

ulinbac wrote: »

It was really annoying when we had a lot of foreign people working here and Irish people saying "they are taking our jobs", again ridiculous. Can you honestly tell me that a qualified engineer, tradesman would have taken a job in a restaurant? Not likely. The Irish workforce was too skilled for these position's in general due to free tertiary education etc. Can you tell me who were going to fill these position's?

So even-though, the Irish kept the running of business' going these immigrants you don't seem to like were an essential backbone to them, from serving coffee to working on the buildings.

No offence but it sounds like you have a grudge and never been the other side of the barrier. The majority of my family emigrated but parents came back. Brother is gone (since 2005 when times were good) and I'm gone in September as secured a job abroad, why did they and I do it?, for money. better jobs and a better life! So this multi-culturalistic and typical old Irish frame of mind you are spreading needs to get off it's high horse (possibly read an economics book about this stuff) and open your eyes!

So when the famed Celtic bubble was threatened by a labour shortage our moronic government of the time blew it further to keep 'the good times rolling,' and of course, themselves in power.