Do it Yourself Garage

keithclancy

So went down to my local DIY Garage, for that you get a car lift, access to tools (Impact Hammer, Oil Collector, spanners, socket sets etc) just have to make sure you clean them after your done.

Plus they have a parts shop attached to the workshop so you can just walk up, get new bits if you need them.

11 euros per hour with bridge and your own parts.
7 euros per hour with bridge if you buy parts there.

10 euros per hour without bridge and your own parts.
6 euros per hour without bridge if you buy parts there

Link

Just as a matter of interest, anyone know if this exists in Ireland, its a fantastic idea IMO, especially in the winter

no1beemerfan

keithclancy wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, anyone know if this exists in Ireland, its a fantastic idea IMO, especially in the winter

I've done a bit of research into this and its not in Ireland. It is a very good idea but I imagine insurance here would make it unworkable. Plus knowing my area, there are a lot of lads I wouldn't let near the place if I had something like this.

bazz26

Public Liability Insurance costs would make it prohibitory expensive here.

Padraig Mor

I think they'd be a fantastic idea but doubtless end up closed after some guy's car rolls off the lift onto his head.

biko

Yeah would love this but alas, none around.

-Corkie-

Would be a great idea but as some people mentioned some numpty would let a car drop on themselves.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Seen one up in Belfast. Good idea, but inevitably people would ruin it.

Ghost Estate

bazz26 wrote: »

Public Liability Insurance costs would make it prohibitory expensive here.

such a shame in Ireland, so many things like this are dead before they even get off the ground over insurance and regulations.

We don't even have an amusement park worth mentioning.

a_v525

Dont ya just hate stupid people? they always ruin it for the rest of us....

biko

I'd love to open one if the insurance stuff could be circumvented, all "at owners own risk" type deal.
I guess a pit model would be better since the car is essentially still on the ground.
Then if someone need a lift I could operate it for them and put some lock on it so it cannot be lowered without my key.

galwaytt

biko wrote: »

I'd love to open one if the insurance stuff could be circumvented, all "at owners own risk" type deal.
I guess a pit model would be better since the car is essentially still on the ground.
Then if someone need a lift I could operate it for them and put some lock on it so it cannot be lowered without my key.

You won't get around the insurance. You can sign all the disclaimer's you want, but you're wasting your time.....

Forget pits - they're an even bigger hazard than lifts. People fall in to them, trip into them, they collect gas and petrol fumes.........some numpty will blow himself up.

C'est la Vie in this country, as they say.

shedweller

Being abroad for a few years showed me that the insurance thing can be got around. But it involves a massive shift away from the current system. That aint going to happen unfortunately.:(
I believe Mary Harney (i know..i know!!) went to NZ to look at their healthcare system a while back. It works fantastically well and as a result insurance is, or at least was, very cheap. You think they'd implement such a system here?

Ghost Estate

galwaytt wrote: »

.
Forget pits - they're an even bigger hazard than lifts. People fall in to them, trip into them, they collect gas and petrol fumes.........some numpty will blow himself up.

C'est la Vie in this country, as they say.

I know someone who used to have a pit but they filled it in once kids came on the scene

Never mind the sensible option of locking the garage door when nobody's around, fill the thing in altogether and ruin it for themselves.

I started a thread about this carry on in another forum. and as much as I'd like to blame the government and the EU I believe its a mentality thats firmly engrained in our society. Its only a thing from the last few decades (and it's got worse in recent times). You'd wonder how anyone survived childhood 50 or 100 years ago

dr.fuzzenstein

no1beemerfan wrote: »

I've done a bit of research into this and its not in Ireland. It is a very good idea but I imagine insurance here would make it unworkable. Plus knowing my area, there are a lot of lads I wouldn't let near the place if I had something like this.

+1
This is yet another thing that works absolutely without any problem in any country on the planet but would not ever be possible in Ireland in a million years because of the restrictive and bizarre way insurance works here.

unkel

Ghost Estate wrote: »

I believe its a mentality thats firmly engrained in our society.

I think you're right. If you fall into a pit in the Netherlands, concensus is you should have paid attention and been more careful where you step. You've only got yourself to blame. A judge would laugh you out of court and you wouldn't get a cent compensation. In Ireland if the same thing happens, you sue for personal injuries. You get all your legal costs paid, all your medical costs paid, all your lost income paid plus all other expenses and for good measure another €30k for "compensation" for immaterial damages :rolleyes:

dr.fuzzenstein

unkel wrote: »

I think you're right. If you fall into a pit in the Netherlands, concensus is you should have paid attention and been more careful where you step. You've only got yourself to blame. A judge would laugh you out of court and you wouldn't get a cent compensation. In Ireland if the same thing happens, you sue for personal injuries. You get all your legal costs paid, all your medical costs paid, all your lost income paid plus all other expenses and for good measure another €30k for "compensation" for immaterial damages :rolleyes:

Absolutely.
So, float this business idea and, let's just say, that against all odds it's a runner.
After spending about a year negotiating with different insurance companies you finally find someone who is willing to insure you for about a million quid a month, open your doors to business, skanger walks in , drops hammer on foot and that would be the end of that.
Any business like that would last about 5 minutes here.
It would be the same as opening a ski slope.
Within 10 minutes there would be at least 20 claims in, a million quid and my right nut on that.

bijapos

I used to use one of these on a regular basis when I lived in Germany, I looked into opening one when I came back here about five years ago but gave up on the idea after 6 months of talking to various insurance brokers.

The myraid of possibilities that they came up with as to how someone might hurt themselves was endless. Alone the amount of warning signs that would have been necessary would make it a joke as well.

A good example: I proposed there would be a "chill out" area with a kettle, sink, a few mugs and a few sofas to chat and have a cup of tea. Points raised by the insurance company were

• Who will be serving the tea? When I said self service they said the risk that someone will cover themselves in boiling water was too big.
• How do I contain the risk of an oral infection being passed to another customer if someone doesnt wash up their dirty cup properly. :rolleyes:
• How will I contain the risk of somebody accidentally flooding the building whilst making the cup of tea. (*sigh*)
• How will I ensure that hygeine standards are kept to in the communal space when there is no employee dedicated to this area.
• How will I ensure that waste does not form a hazard. (When I asked what this meant he said someone could slip on a discarded wrapper or sandwich).

The list went on and on. Regrettably a broker I spoke to was very keen on the idea, he was a bit of a classic car nut himself but he said at the beginning that the insurance would not work, the costs would be too big compared to income.

Yes, in some ways I regret coming back here. And I cant for the life of me understand why a piece of legislation has not been introduced to prevent massive insurance claims.

unkel

That makes for sad reading. Someone with a bit of initiative, trying to get a little enterprise going. And all you face is a thick insurance brick wall. Must have been very frustrating

bijapos

Yes it was annoying, frustrating and plenty more to boot.

I cant blame the insurance companies tbh, they were just outlining the things would leave me open to being sued and thus them having to make a payout. I personally blame the kind of people who look for any reason to sue, but most of all the justice/legal system that allows massive payouts for what is essentially carelessness on the supposed "victims" behalf.

Incidentally it was proposed that there would have to be an induction for anyone using the workshop, it would have amounted to ca 15-20 mins, plus form signing. It would have been an embarrassment to have to induct someone for 20 mins who only wanted to use a pit for 10 mins to change his/her oil.

Clothing was another issue, everyone had to wear a bloody high viz and safety boots. The average Joe or Josephine doesnt have safety boots.

It was a lost cause from the beginning really.

shedweller

Because i mentioned it earlier, Here's how it works in nz:http://www.emigratenz.org/healthcare-migrants-newzealand.html

Who can I sue if I am injured?
You cannot sue anyone for compensation. The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) helps to pay for the cost of your care. Injuries from work, home and sports or other leisure activities are covered.

ACC claims may also be made for personal injury caused by a medical mistake or error, sexual assault or abuse, and some work-related conditions.

Amazing isn't it!?

Eric Cartman

Could You start one and perhaps use it as a members club ? where you pay by the month or something , every member signs some document that says they or their relatives cannot sue if anything happens to them or their vehicle as a result of entering the premesis and by paying membership they agree to this , then perhaps some kind of 2 hour - 1 day quick safety course on workshops.

because of the safety and membership you wouldnt get as many people as a public one would but If you could build a membership base of car enthusiasts down every few days/weeks it would work

bijapos

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Could You start one and perhaps use it as a members club ? ..........
because of the safety and membership you wouldnt get as many people as a public one would but If you could build a membership base of car enthusiasts down every few days/weeks it would work

Yes you can do this, but you need a lot of members to cover rent, general running costs and insurance.

My issue was that I wanted to run it as a full time business and the costs proved prohibitive.

jimbobjones40

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Could You start one and perhaps use it as a members club ? where you pay by the month or something , every member signs some document that says they or their relatives cannot sue if anything happens to them or their vehicle as a result of entering the premesis and by paying membership they agree to this , then perhaps some kind of 2 hour - 1 day quick safety course on workshops.

because of the safety and membership you wouldnt get as many people as a public one would but If you could build a membership base of car enthusiasts down every few days/weeks it would work

I've a DIY / self service workshop in Dublin using very similar club membership method to above. Anyone looking to service their car or change their shocks etc?

Eric Cartman

bijapos wrote: »

Yes you can do this, but you need a lot of members to cover rent, general running costs and insurance.

My issue was that I wanted to run it as a full time business and the costs proved prohibitive.

you could do a system of 1 euro a year membership then keep their name on a book and just charge them a 'facilities' charge every time they show up , keeps the once off lads in the door and the regulars get it cheap too

damianmcr

http://www.themotorgym.com/

mickdw

damianmcr wrote: »

http://www.themotorgym.com/

They are offering franchise opportunities in Ireland england Scotland & wales.
Ok so who is brave enough?

jimbobjones40

mickdw wrote: »

They are offering franchise opportunities in Ireland england Scotland & wales.
Ok so who is brave enough?

Don't think anyone will be brave enough. With the claim culture in Ireland club membership (as in actually taking responsibility for ones self) is the only way DIY workshops will work.

Interesting though my own rates are actually better than that company just the club membership fee isn't cheap but that's just to put off the jokers.

biko

Swedish Diy station

http://www.ok-koping.se/gds_hallen.htm

Things that can go wrong

Max_Damage

Reading through this thread has given me another reason to leave this hell hole of a country.

Voodoomelon

Another big problem is rates.
I'm paying a hair under €6000 for 2700sq feet of warehouse, enough space for maybe 6-7 lifts and some open space. Its an absolute killer.

Esel

Ghost Estate wrote: »

We don't even have an amusement park worth mentioning.

Much as it pains me to reply to one of your posts, have you checked out our own amusement park?

jackbauer

Ever try simply renting a bit of space to work on a car? I did in 06. Soon as i mentioned the purpose was told to eff off. This is one of the business models that SHOULD be taking off here right now as it helps everyone save a buck. Every issue of car machanics magazine has an ad for one of these in the uk.:mad:

tankbarry

Im sure a guy in Waterford does it Not far from the Airport. My brother in Law fixed my car for my and would have needed to lift it up to fix it.... obviously its done on hurt urself tough ****... and clean up after urself...

taintabird

bijapos wrote: »

I used to use one of these on a regular basis when I lived in Germany, I looked into opening one when I came back here about five years ago but gave up on the idea after 6 months of talking to various insurance brokers.

The myraid of possibilities that they came up with as to how someone might hurt themselves was endless. Alone the amount of warning signs that would have been necessary would make it a joke as well.

A good example: I proposed there would be a "chill out" area with a kettle, sink, a few mugs and a few sofas to chat and have a cup of tea. Points raised by the insurance company were

• Who will be serving the tea? When I said self service they said the risk that someone will cover themselves in boiling water was too big.
• How do I contain the risk of an oral infection being passed to another customer if someone doesnt wash up their dirty cup properly. :rolleyes:
• How will I contain the risk of somebody accidentally flooding the building whilst making the cup of tea. (*sigh*)
• How will I ensure that hygeine standards are kept to in the communal space when there is no employee dedicated to this area.
• How will I ensure that waste does not form a hazard. (When I asked what this meant he said someone could slip on a discarded wrapper or sandwich).

The list went on and on. Regrettably a broker I spoke to was very keen on the idea, he was a bit of a classic car nut himself but he said at the beginning that the insurance would not work, the costs would be too big compared to income.

Yes, in some ways I regret coming back here. And I cant for the life of me understand why a piece of legislation has not been introduced to prevent massive insurance claims.

I think its hilarious people think there's a lot of red tape in Germany its nothing compared to the nanny state of Ireland, what ever happened to good old common seance it seems to be sadly lacking in people these days.

keithclancy

taintabird wrote: »

I think its hilarious people think there's a lot of red tape in Germany its nothing compared to the nanny state of Ireland, what ever happened to good old common seance it seems to be sadly lacking in people these days.

Yeh, Germany its not that theres red tape, its that theres a rule for everything.

I.E. You buy a car in Germany and want to take it out ? You can just get temporary plates and ADAC Insurance to take it home without having to be resident.

You want a delivery truck to drop stuff at your apartment?
Fill out a form at the City Hall and you'll get signs and a time you can reserve a space outside your apartment block for delivery. If someone parks there call the cops and they'll come tow them away or give them a ticket.

On the other hand your not allowed to wash your car on the street in some cities, have to take it to a car wash !

Matt Simis

I know of a couple of guys that rented out small garages themselves and set them up with lifts etc. They were based in those tiny little industrial areas in semi-rural areas. They did side business mechanic stuff there.

I know there are several empty brand new workshop type areas in Athboy for instance.
This entire topic was brought up on Octane.ie too btw. I really dont think the Insurance would be as much as people make out either.

Esel

tankbarry wrote: »

Im sure a guy in Waterford does it Not far from the Airport. My brother in Law fixed my car for my and would have needed to lift it up to fix it.... obviously its done on hurt urself tough ****... and clean up after urself...

Until someone decides to sue...

mawk

Any business like that would last about 5 minutes here.
It would be the same as opening a ski slope.
Within 10 minutes there would be at least 20 claims in, a million quid and my right nut on that.[/QUOTE]

We have a ski slope in kiltiernan. Been open a few years now

kippy

Great discussion lads.

This compensation culture has led to massive cost increases for businesses, local community groups, sporting organisations and people wanting to try a "different" business venture.

I totally agree with what has gone before in this thread. The insurance companies in fairness arent totally at fault. We have a regulatory system which is all too kind to idiots. This needs to be evened up.
I must look into the NZ system, that looks fair.

ARGINITE

jackbauer wrote: »

Every issue of car machanics magazine has an ad for one of these in the uk.:mad:

Got any links to one in or near the Bedfordshire area?
I can find one in London, Birmingham and Glasgow. But they still seem to be pretty limited over here.

Lex Luthor

galwaytt wrote: »

they collect gas and petrol fumes.........some numpty will blow himself up.
.

you won't if you have the proper monitoring in there but then that comes at a premium. We supplied & installed the system in the port tunnel for the exact same reason at the lowest point in there and it didn't come cheap and is costly to maintain

galwaytt

Lex Luthor wrote: »

you won't if you have the proper monitoring in there but then that comes at a premium. We supplied & installed the system in the port tunnel for the exact same reason at the lowest point in there and it didn't come cheap and is costly to maintain

The point is made: cost. Of course it's possible to technically cure, anything, you're right there.

Still won't stop the forgetting there's a hole in the floor and walking into it, and won't stop this happening, either...;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBWz-yBt4Hk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B1hjQqfY_8

taintabird

keithclancy wrote: »

Yeh, Germany its not that theres red tape, its that theres a rule for everything.

Absolutely if you follow the rules almost everything is possible no question but you must follow the rules to the letter

Esel wrote: »

Until someone decides to sue...

A case of not if someone sues but when

kippy wrote: »

We have a regulatory system which is all too kind to idiots.

The cotton wool approach that was created by the nanny state and to a certain extent by health and safety legislation plays into the hands of less scrupulous individuals who sees an opportunity for a quick buck, the lack of common sense by the courts only compounded this. I was always told by my parents when I was growing up you have to be responsible for your own safety, the unfortunate fact of life is most people don't seem to take that approach.The high payouts for injuries which in a lot of cases could have been avoided has only added to the problem and as a result we see the results in our premiums every year. A venture like a diy garage would be financial suicide even if you could get a justifiable insurance quote you would have the damage to equipment and or theft to contend with, it would be a case of the idiots f***ing it up for every one else

taintabird

Lex Luthor wrote: »

you won't if you have the proper monitoring in there but then that comes at a premium. We supplied & installed the system in the port tunnel for the exact same reason at the lowest point in there and it didn't come cheap and is costly to maintain

To be fair monitoring wont ventilate a pit it will however provide a nice video for you tube of some idiot doing something stupid though

dr.fuzzenstein

mawk wrote: »

Any business like that would last about 5 minutes here.
It would be the same as opening a ski slope.
Within 10 minutes there would be at least 20 claims in, a million quid and my right nut on that.

We have a ski slope in kiltiernan. Been open a few years now[/QUOTE]

Cool, will check it out, was to go to Germany, but after hanging around the departures area for a few hours my flight got canceled.:(

sogood

Many many years ago there was just such a set up in Santry in Dublin, called PIT STOP. It was located where the exhaust centre is/was on the old airport road opposite the Santry Stadium. It didn't last too long, for whatever reason, but I will always remember the fact that you got a window sticker, which proudly proclaimed " I fixed it myself at Pit Stop" made all the more poignant and humourous in the pre nct days when I saw such a sticker in the rear window of a sad, rusting, dented Fiat 127! Still, it was running!!

Slidey

Nice idea but a disaster. Even pro mechanics can get caught out doing a job. What happens when a guy comes in to change a bottom ball joint and there is a problem where he can't put the car back together?

Hey presto there is a lift out of action and you can be sure there will be a row when times comes for him to cough up the dough for all the time he has blocked it

pippip

Slidey wrote: »

Nice idea but a disaster. Even pro mechanics can get caught out doing a job. What happens when a guy comes in to change a bottom ball joint and there is a problem where he can't put the car back together?

Hey presto there is a lift out of action and you can be sure there will be a row when times comes for him to cough up the dough for all the time he has blocked it

How is it a disaster if there are plenty of them all over the Europe that operate fine?

jimbobjones40

Slidey wrote: »

Nice idea but a disaster. What happens when a guy comes in to change a bottom ball joint and there is a problem where he can't put the car back together?

Hey presto there is a lift out of action and you can be sure there will be a row when times comes for him to cough up the dough for all the time he has blocked it

There's two ways I deal with it:
1. The car can be removed from the lift without any wheels with the equipment I have.
2. If the above doesn't work for the customer then the on-site mechanic will complete the job at the usual rate.