Spring reseed

JohnBoy

We need to reseed some of our ground.

I'm considering doing it in the spring.

when should we do it?

if we had a good job could we take a cut of silage off it later in the year? we dont have any stock to graze it.


Been reading some of the reseeding threads on here, I like the idea of putting lime into a dung spreader and putting it out in advance, the ground is in need of lime too.

In that situation what's the order of events?

spray
spread lime/dung
wait a week or two
plough
harrow
seed
roll
wait six weeks or so
spray post emergence spray for weeds

Does the ploughing really bring any benefit or would a one-pass power harrow drill be better? we have stones, but I'm not sure how far down they are!

Username John

JohnBoy wrote: »

We need to reseed some of our ground.

I'm considering doing it in the spring.

when should we do it?

if we had a good job could we take a cut of silage off it later in the year? we dont have any stock to graze it.


Been reading some of the reseeding threads on here, I like the idea of putting lime into a dung spreader and putting it out in advance, the ground is in need of lime too.

In that situation what's the order of events?

spray
spread lime/dung
wait a week or two
plough
harrow
seed
roll
wait six weeks or so
spray post emergence spray for weeds

Does the ploughing really bring any benefit or would a one-pass power harrow drill be better? we have stones, but I'm not sure how far down they are!

I reseeded last spring, and plan to do a bit this spring again.

What I did was
- spray (around first week April)
- waited 2 weeks
- plough
- spread lime
- harrow
- seed
- roll (all done 3rd week of April)
After 7 weeks grazed it with sheep (start - mid June)
Had a lot of fecking docks come up tho :mad:
So I sprayed after first grazing, but this spring I will spray earlier, a few weeks after setting... how many weeks, am not sure tho... need to check...

I plan on ploughing this year again - it has a thick mat of old grass, so I want to bury it. I dont have many stones, so thats not so much of an issue.

Re taking silage off it - we have sheep, so its suits us to graze. Two neighbours of mine reseeded the same time as me last Spring, both took a cut of silage off it. (One took a cut of silage, and a cut of bales off it actually) One sprayed post emergence, and it did a super job.
The other didnt spray, and you could see that weeds come up a lot more after the silage.
Now - I know people say that silage isnt the best to do for new reseeds, but from what I can see, while it may not be the best, it works fine too...

Question - if you put out lime, then ploughed it, woudl you not be putting the lime down a lot? I thught it was better to put lime out after ploughing?

JohnBoy

Quite possibly right, just saw someone in another thread who put a loader full of lime into each dung spreader load and saved on the cost of spreading the lime, struck me as a very clever idea.

countryjimbo

Username John wrote: »

- spray (around first week April)
- waited 2 weeks
- plough
- spread lime
- harrow
- seed
- roll (all done 3rd week of April)
After 7 weeks grazed it with sheep (start - mid June)
Had a lot of fecking docks come up tho :mad:
So I sprayed after first grazing, but this spring I will spray earlier, a few weeks after setting.

What did you spray with at the start, roundup?

Also what's the best spray to control weeds after emergence?

reilig

JohnBoy wrote: »

Quite possibly right, just saw someone in another thread who put a loader full of lime into each dung spreader load and saved on the cost of spreading the lime, struck me as a very clever idea.

That was me

We just power harrowed it in to the top inch of the soil. I'd imagine if you were to plough after spreading the lime then you would lose a lot of lime in the furrow when the sod would be turned over.

We let Sheep eat the first growth and then took silage off it after that.
There were a lot of weeds the first year but the lambs ate them all and none regrew.

Reseeded last August with the chain harrow and as of yet still have no weeds - just a good crop of grass.

Username John

countryjimbo wrote: »

What did you spray with at the start, roundup?

Also what's the best spray to control weeds after emergence?

Feck - cant remember what we sprayed with, it wasnt roundup, but it was the same thing, in that it was a cheaper glyphosate.

Last year I sprayed Undersown, after first grazing, as I had clover. I'll spray earlier this year tho, I think it might be better.
More info on post emergenece sprays on this thread.

Username John

As we're on the topic of spring reseeds - whats the thinking on applying fertiliser for spring reseeds?

Apply a minimum when sowing, and then more when the grass starts growing? I think I read / heard somewhere that no fertiliser should be applying when sowing, only after a few weeks, but this seems wrong to me...

I need to get the soil tested, but I would guess I'll be putting in 2 bags 18-6-12 / acre when I set it as I'll be getting contractor to do it.

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on it? What do people normally do?

A

reilig

Username John wrote: »

As we're on the topic of spring reseeds - whats the thinking on applying fertiliser for spring reseeds?

Apply a minimum when sowing, and then more when the grass starts growing? I think I read / heard somewhere that no fertiliser should be applying when sowing, only after a few weeks, but this seems wrong to me...

I need to get the soil tested, but I would guess I'll be putting in 2 bags 18-6-12 / acre when I set it as I'll be getting contractor to do it.

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on it? What do people normally do?

A

2 bags of 18-6-12 to the acre on last August's reseed. It grew well. Slurry going on to it in the next week or 2 and a bag to the acre of Urea. Will be taking a cut of silage off it at the end of May.

jeff greene

Reseeded last April for the first time, same procedure as above, redshank was a huge problem, never get it in August. The weather was very dry in May which allowed the weeds to established, I would consider under sowing it with barley to control the weeds if its destined for silage anyway.

JohnBoy

Wow, to within half an hour of being exactly a year later my mind has turned to reseeding again!!!!!

(prompted by that other thread)

with a million and one non farm things going on last spring we never did anything with that field.

We did get a good customer for our silage, who wants to do business again this year, but is keen to get that field cleaned up.


Soooooo talked to the contractor two weeks ago, he's suggesting three passes with discs and then in with the one pass as opposed to ploughing, they've done it for a few neighbours in the last few years so as not to bring up so many stones and it seems to have worked well. also as this is going into silage straight away the discing wont cut up as much.


two questions....

1) timing, when do we go? this ground will not be grazed before silage in mid-late may. We have a decent crop of docks and a couple of big patches of nettles that need a good kill. The docks are well on the way already and the nettles are just starting to sprout now in the spring, how tall should I let the nettles get before we spray to ensure a good kill?

2) lime, we need to lime the whole place, should have done it in the autumn, I know, but is it too late to do it now? also could we lime the reseed in advance of even spraying, or would it go to waste?

I know there's restrictions with urea after liming, but we can work around those.

yellow50HX

Reseeded a grass field for the 1st time last August, had cut the field for silage in June, let the grass grow back then Let the cows clean it off. Then sprayed it and when the it was killed off we ran the rotovator across it and speared the seed with a spreader. Levelled it with a harrow and rolled it. Nice grass there now.

It was our 1st autumn reseed. When ever we did it in spring we would usually do it after tillage so it was ploughed harrowed and then undersown with barley. The barley will keep the weeds down. We would then cut it as arable silage and the grass would come well for the autumn. That is fine for pit silage but wouldn't be too sure for bales.

cj maxx

thinking of reseeding and cutting small bales of hay (weather permitting) . what did it cost you guys per acre and what was a rough breakdown , was thinking a power harrow might suit best ?

6480

whats the best way to sow grass seed after it is power harrowed and levelled with a land leveller , roll before sowing and roll again after sowing or chain harrow before sowing then chain harrow with it upside down after sowing and then roll

Username John

cjmc wrote: »

thinking of reseeding and cutting small bales of hay (weather permitting) . what did it cost you guys per acre and what was a rough breakdown , was thinking a power harrow might suit best ?

I did some reseeding last autumn, will get the costs tonight and put em up.

But small square bales of hay off a new reseed? You'd want savage weather to save grass that green would you not? Admittedly, it would be great hay if you got it...

cj maxx

thanks john . graze year1 then cut, whatever year 2 ?

Username John

Username John wrote: »

I did some reseeding last autumn, will get the costs tonight and put em up.

But small square bales of hay off a new reseed? You'd want savage weather to save grass that green would you not? Admittedly, it would be great hay if you got it...

Hello Cjmc,

Sorry - forgot to look up costs the other night.

Please find breakdown below, as it was reclaimed ground not sure of the exact acreage...

Spray - 12 - 13 / acre
Ploughing + disc harrow - 40 - 45 / acre (not sure of exact cost of ploughing cos some of the field had terrible sods which needed to be disced, but not all of field was disced)
Spread lime - 6 / ton
One pass - 33 - 35 / acre
Rolling - 15 - 17 acre
Spread fertiliser - 40 / ton

Be interested to hear what other think of these prices as well.

JohnBoy

In our will we/wont we debate we've decided in fact that yes, we will reseed this field.

Todays question relates to Lime!

The field has a pH of 5.12 which needs 11t/ha to correct. That should be applied over two stages though.

how much at the reseed?

JohnBoy

Ok, second thought is to the process.

just writing it down for my own benefit, but feel free to comment.


spray
graze
disc 3 times
spread slurry
spread lime
one pass power harrow seed drill
roll

wait

post emergence spray


How's that order of events look? should we put out fert as well? Nitrogen index 2, Phosphorus index 3, potassium index 2.

49801

JohnBoy wrote: »

Ok, second thought is to the process.

just writing it down for my own benefit, but feel free to comment.


spray
graze
disc 3 times
spread slurry
spread lime
one pass power harrow seed drill
roll

wait

post emergence spray


How's that order of events look? should we put out fert as well? Nitrogen index 2, Phosphorus index 3, potassium index 2.

I'd be concerned about your placement of slurry in the process and running on cultivated ground with heavy machinery and irish weather and compaction. Think I'd prefer granular fert than slurry. If you really want to use slurry I think i'd spread it a couple of weeks before spraying off even.

we had some stoney ground that we did not want to plough and it went as follows with a disc.

spray
graze
box of match's
disc x2
lime
broadcast fert
Pharrow
sow seed.
roll
pray for rain.
really really pray for rain


post emergant spray

bogman_bass

If you can get your hands on a seed barrow then use that instead of a one pass drill. In my experience, placing grass seed in nice straight lines leads to a patchy feild of grass.

F.D

john boy do you need to disc 3 times? could you chain harrow it yourself, or even get someone with one of those opico air seeders with the spring tines?

JohnBoy

Being reccomended by the contractor as a better alternative to ploughing for our soil.

Cant do any of this myself I'm afraid. the tractor is 60 miles away from the land and the only implement I own right now is a tripleK and a two furrow plough! (both are also 60 miles away from the land)


I have to be as awkward as possible

49801

JohnBoy wrote: »

Being reccomended by the contractor as a better alternative to ploughing for our soil.

Cant do any of this myself I'm afraid. the tractor is 60 miles away from the land and the only implement I own right now is a tripleK and a two furrow plough! (both are also 60 miles away from the land)


I have to be as awkward as possible

just remember the goal of cultivation is to produce a tilth and the number of required passes can only be decided once the previous pass is complete.
disc's do a fierce good job in dry weather and generally don't do a great at breaking up soil clods but will do the job at the same time. its a big help for the dics' to make sure there is no trash (dead grass) left.

Sorry I'd Lime wrong in my above post. it was in fact prior to discing lime was applied to help break down the clods.

JohnBoy

so the reseed is mostly done.

Costs so far per acre
Roundup biactive €26
Seed: €78
Lime: €54
Fertiliser €98

So far: €256

Contractor bill is currently unknown, takes a long time to get an invoice out of them, but they're easily paid.

I havent spoken to them since to know exactly what was done, how many passes of the discs and power harrow it got, but it looks well and there're very very few stones came up.

I think it needs rolling, it's not fluffy undefoot, but it's not firm either. how long should we wait before doing that? the grass is up nearly two weeks now, and growing mad.


Also growing mad are weeds. how soon should we put out a post emergence spray, and what should we use, there's no clover to worry about.

Username John

JohnBoy wrote: »

so the reseed is mostly done.

Costs so far per acre
Roundup biactive €26
Seed: €78
Lime: €54
Fertiliser €98

So far: €256

Contractor bill is currently unknown, takes a long time to get an invoice out of them, but they're easily paid.

I havent spoken to them since to know exactly what was done, how many passes of the discs and power harrow it got, but it looks well and there're very very few stones came up.

I think it needs rolling, it's not fluffy undefoot, but it's not firm either. how long should we wait before doing that? the grass is up nearly two weeks now, and growing mad.


Also growing mad are weeds. how soon should we put out a post emergence spray, and what should we use, there's no clover to worry about.

Hi Johnboy,

I sprayed with undersown 2 years ago when I reseeded a field in Spring, but I wanted something that wouldnt kill clover. I imagine there would be cheaper alternatives when yer not worried re clover.

As for when did we spray - we left it too late, and had to graze before we sprayed it, which wasn't great. I imagine spraying at 5 weeks after setting would be the right time, but it all depends on how the weeds are looking I guess...

Rolling - as the grass is up and would be very tender, would you not need to grow a good bit before rolling it now, as it might only do more harm than good to break the shoots. IMO anyways, but I wouldn't know a whole pile about rolling either

Did you put in a lot of fertiliser, 98 / acre seems high for a reseed, but maybe fertiliser is more expensive than I thought? Seed is gone savage expensive isn't it...

If the contractor comes in at 100 - 150/acre, making it 350 - 400 acre for a reseed.

JohnBoy

10-10-20 is €490/tonne!!!!

3.33 bags to the acre, plus one bag of CAN

Teagasc reccomendation based off soil tests done last year. (Sometimes I wonder if our adviser has shares in a fertiliser company )

It's been an expensive reseed no doubt, but not sure how much costs could have been eliminated.

Shopping around could surely have saved a bit admittedly, but we didnt have the time so had to take the prices we were given.

Pharaoh1

Reseeded about 3 acres myself recently.
Used Clinic Ace to burn didn't use much out of a new 20l drum it was €95. Neighbour charged €20 for spraying.

Contractor charged €250 for plough/level/power harrow/sow - I think he let me off lightly.

I rolled it myself once before sowing and after sowing.

JohnBoy I see you have a nitrogen soil test result I didn't think there was such a thing.
I used 7 bags 10-10-20 or a little more than 2 per acre as per soil test.
I'll use a bag of can later if I need it.
Seed was pricey at €82 a bag

It is coming up nicely a few soft weeds but they should top out after grazing.
Roughly €235 an acre plus whatever diesel I used for rolling twice

reilig

Anyone used one of these quad spreaders to spread grass seed?



Have approximately 15 acres of bogland that I'm reclaiming and draining at the moment. Thought this might be useful for spreading the seed on wet ground. Anyone got one?

JohnBoy

I'd imagine you'd need to get one and try it out, on one hand 15 acres is loads of ground to get it figured out on, but on the other hand seed is feckin expensive.

As an alternative, dont you have a 35 and a vicon?

would a set of duals for the 35 be a better investment?

oj9

The problem with a spinner like that is wind can leave the field stripey and the can be tricky to calibrate properly , is there no one in the area with a spring tine air seeder, it will sow and harrow all in one pass

JohnBoy

Some pics......

Before the reseed. This was the annoying part. where there was grass in this field it was actually quite good. but this is the cleanest corner of it it, photo taken in march.

what you cant see is behind that grove of trees is nothing but docks, and down the hill you can just make out some lighter coloured patches, those are nettle stalks from 2011, huge patches of them.

As we sell silage off this ground this patch was causing us issues, it was putting people off big time, plus a crop of docks is not a good thing to have anyway!



It was sprayed off in the first week of april, and grazed (a bit late) by one of the neighbour's heifers. my fear with the nettles seemed to have some foundation as they didnt get a great kill.



It all then sat for a month nearly with the weather. It was then done all in a day, but I dont know exactly what was done, it was disced a few times and then powerharrowed and sown with a one pass.


It was in a week when this pic was taken. most of the field looked like the foreground of this pic, only a few small stones and a great spurt of growt wit the warm moist weather in the last week of may/first week of june. The really impressive bit in the background is where they cleaned out the drill I think, there was a small patch that was absolutely mad with grass.

I think the disc/powerharrow combo worked very well from a stones point of view, but I'd have liked the seedbed to be firmer, I think it should have been rolled afterwards.




Was back this weekend, two weeks later and the grass is looking great.

So are the weeds. Spoke to the co-op about a post emergence spray with no clover and they reccomended doxstar, so I bought a bottle of that. expensive stuff....

Both these pics are taken in the one spot, seedbed has firmed a lot from all the rain.




the odd dock seems to have survived! but no sign of any decent nettles.


This weekend was not the time to be spraying though, there's a small river running down part of it.

Username John

JohnBoy wrote: »

Some pics......

Before the reseed. This was the annoying part. where there was grass in this field it was actually quite good. but this is the cleanest corner of it it, photo taken in march.

what you cant see is behind that grove of trees is nothing but docks, and down the hill you can just make out some lighter coloured patches, those are nettle stalks from 2011, huge patches of them.

As we sell silage off this ground this patch was causing us issues, it was putting people off big time, plus a crop of docks is not a good thing to have anyway!



It was sprayed off in the first week of april, and grazed (a bit late) by one of the neighbour's heifers. my fear with the nettles seemed to have some foundation as they didnt get a great kill.



It all then sat for a month nearly with the weather. It was then done all in a day, but I dont know exactly what was done, it was disced a few times and then powerharrowed and sown with a one pass.


It was in a week when this pic was taken. most of the field looked like the foreground of this pic, only a few small stones and a great spurt of growt wit the warm moist weather in the last week of may/first week of june. The really impressive bit in the background is where they cleaned out the drill I think, there was a small patch that was absolutely mad with grass.

I think the disc/powerharrow combo worked very well from a stones point of view, but I'd have liked the seedbed to be firmer, I think it should have been rolled afterwards.




Was back this weekend, two weeks later and the grass is looking great.

So are the weeds. Spoke to the co-op about a post emergence spray with no clover and they reccomended doxstar, so I bought a bottle of that. expensive stuff....

Both these pics are taken in the one spot, seedbed has firmed a lot from all the rain.




the odd dock seems to have survived! but no sign of any decent nettles.


This weekend was not the time to be spraying though, there's a small river running down part of it.

Looks good John.

Are the small leaves chickweed that's coming up through it? I have it in my head this is head enough to kill?
But when I sprayed I used a clover friendly spray, so maybe thats why it wasnt killed off?

Will you graze it before you take silage off it (assuming you will take a cut off it?)

EDIT : Ignore me, I googled Doxstar, and it said "Control of Docks and chickweed"
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDAS/dh_013e/0901b8038013e881.pdf?filepath=/uk/pdfs/noreg/011-01545.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

JohnBoy

I dont know what to do with it, would it benefit from a topping in another few weeks?

I could give away a grazing off it I suppose, but as you may have noticed recently I'm a small bit annoyed with the person who I'd have given the grazing to.

If I was on hand I'd be half tempted to buy a few sheep, but I'm not, so I cant.

Oh and there's feck all fencing!!!!

I should borrow the auld lad's ride on maybe to cut it tight and collect the clippings

JohnBoy

As we finally got our contractors bill I said I'd update these costs

Costs per acre
Roundup biactive €26
Seed: €78
Lime: €54
Fertiliser €98
Post emergence spray €26
Contractor (spray off, spread lime, spread fert, disc 3 times, sow with one pass harrow drill, spray post emergence) €86

Total cost €368

All prices include VAT.


Everyone talks about reseeds costing around €200 an acre..... where did I go so horribly wrong? or is the €200 an acre figure out of date?

epfff

JohnBoy wrote: »

As we finally got our contractors bill I said I'd update these costs

Costs per acre
Roundup biactive €26
Seed: €78
Lime: €54
Fertiliser €98
Post emergence spray €26
Contractor (spray off, spread lime, spread fert, disc 3 times, sow with one pass harrow drill, spray post emergence) €86

Total cost €368

All prices include VAT.

Everyone talks about reseeds costing around €200 an acre..... where did I go so horribly wrong? or is the €200 an acre figure out of date?

I never add the cost of lime or fert because i say the land would get that regardless
your contractor did not rob you anyway my guy would be a lot more

Username John

JohnBoy wrote: »

As we finally got our contractors bill I said I'd update these costs

Costs per acre
Roundup biactive €26
Seed: €78
Lime: €54
Fertiliser €98
Post emergence spray €26
Contractor (spray off, spread lime, spread fert, disc 3 times, sow with one pass harrow drill, spray post emergence) €86

Total cost €368

All prices include VAT.


Everyone talks about reseeds costing around €200 an acre..... where did I go so horribly wrong? or is the €200 an acre figure out of date?

I think 200 is well out of date now...

86 for contractor costs seems very low to me, think you did well there.

98 for fertiliser seems high, that's about 4 bags / acre is it? I think I only put out about 2 bags / acre when I was reseeding. But, all depends on soil tests I guess...

Is the price for roundup expensive? This site suggests it might be.

Farmer Pudsey

JohnBoy wrote: »

As we finally got our contractors bill I said I'd update these costs

Costs per acre
Roundup biactive €26
Seed: €78
Lime: €54
Fertiliser €98
Post emergence spray €26
Contractor (spray off, spread lime, spread fert, disc 3 times, sow with one pass harrow drill, spray post emergence) €86

Total cost €368

All prices include VAT.


Everyone talks about reseeds costing around €200 an acre..... where did I go so horribly wrong? or is the €200 an acre figure out of date?

Did the contractor supply all the materials such as roundup/fertlizer/lime.

Biactive is expensive you couyld have used ordinary roundup at less than 10/acre. Fertlizer sounds abit high as well, grassseed was expensive last Year.

JohnBoy

Last saturday:



There's no shortage of grass on it anyway