Greens; performance, posters ad funding

anna1962

I am a GP member. I also vote Labour, Joe Higgins, any decent independent.; I came here from NI , 14 yrs ago: my election criteria was
‘Can I trust this party to keep their fingers out of the till and do the job they’re paid to do? And leave the country a better place?’ so I Never voted FF, FG or PD. Never thought SF too effective.
I saw a thread by Countryman re Green posters. He muses as he saw none, in his district the Greens are finished. He’ll have seen some now. Reason for late arrival there- Greens rely on volunteers. I spent 6 hrs with friends postering , using my hatch back and a ladder- no paying people 100 Euro a day to drive round in cherry picker trucks. I don’t get pay or petrol money.
Election funds: FF & Labour - 1,000,000 Each. :FG 2,500,000(!):
SF 400,000.
Green Party- 40,000 for the whole country- only party to only accept small donations from Individuals only ( max donation around 5,000) and None from banks, unions, big business, developers.
I’m won’t bother defending the Greens- intelligent people know there is more to their performance than has been shown in some Very lazy journalism. Try better quality smaller papers and www.greenparty.ieor candidates websites, which you‘ll find on main site, for the real story .
EG how many knew Ciaran Cuffe put through a 2010 Planning Act to see there Never will be any more property bubbles- we’d have been saved that if he’d got in 15 yrs ago. Yet little comment on this in the press. Also John Gormley has put in Record investment in water infrastructure-as previous governments didn’t bother for the last 20-40 yrs...too busy giving funds for that as tax breaks to the 1% elite.
So we will now get decent water infrastructure- when this is in place no more water shortages now we are back to bad winters. And no more undrinkable water in some counties- Outrageous in an EU state! But Totally tolerated under previous FF and FG governments. If anyone thinks the Greens are finished- the Boards.ie election has elected 2 Green TD’s with 2 others almost elected.
Who will I vote for ( on boards.ie and real election)? Greens, Labour, People before Profit, Socialists…any but the gombeens and gombeen parties who ruined this country for decades.

anna1962

as of 11pm Sunday 13/2/2011 Four Green TDs are elected on the boards.ie election- by the intelligent boards users. This may change - But that's the snapshot now.
BTW- I'm not even trying to influence anyone to vote Green- if you want Real info visit their website www.greenparty.ie
My criteria for voting has always been 'anti gombeen parties'- and I'd encourage anyone who cares about our future to do the same.:)

ei.sdraob

anti gombeen :rolleyes:

you couldn't make it up, so thats why they propped up FF for so long

Liam Byrne

anna1962 wrote: »

as of 11pm Sunday 13/2/2011 Four Green TDs are elected on the boards.ie election- by the intelligent boards users. This may change - But that's the snapshot now.

Incorrect. I didn't vote for Green and I'm an intelligent boards user. I'd suggest being less condescending in your posts.

anna1962 wrote: »

My criteria for voting has always been 'anti gombeen parties'- and I'd encourage anyone who cares about our future to do the same.:)

Ah yes, vote for a non-gombeen party; and replace that with voting for one that supports the gombeen party through all its corruption and sickening "keep the boom going" attempts like NAMA & throwing our money at Anglo.

Not to mention abandoning the "polluter pays" principle with taxing everyone for existing stuff.

anna1962

Dear commentators,I'm not starting any rows- and I'm not condescending- i said some intelligent people vote green- i didnt say all do:
The greens were in coalition- the coalition had to repair the Huge damage done to the country's finances by FF policies to enrich developers and bankers- I didn't approve of NAMA or bank bailout- however opposition didn't come up with any other plans- in fact Silence from Opposition was Deafening, and this country would have been completeley Bankrupt with no money to pay nurses etc, if Nama, bank bailout , funding from UK & IMF had not been done.
Meantime Ciaran Cuffe put thorugh 2010 Planning Act to stop any more property bubbles....it is better to be in goverment to do these things than to watch and be unable to do them from opposition benches.
When the greens were in power they were left to repair the gombeen policies of previous FF governments- and the next government will be doing that for a Long time to come as well.
As I said i don't start rows with anyone- anyone interested in the Greens can look up their website, for their real achievements.
It is difficult for a small party to be in goverment
- but it is better to try to change things than always be in opposition. If you don't try Ireland will always have gombeen parties.
I am interested to hear anyones views, and am very respectful of yours, - but I am rarely on this site so I won't be getting in any debates with anyone, thank you anna

Bottle_of_Smoke

Yeah think they're being hard done by. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying other than your voting choices.

Whilst FG come from more of a gaimbín populated culture than Labour - I think their record is pretty good. Look at how they got rid of Lowry despite overwhelming public support from his constituency - FF wouldn't in a million years do that.

Labour's been around long enough so there's no doubt there's some element of gaimbinism within their ranks. Whilst I don't think it was major issue myself - had gilmore's wife been married to a Fianna Fail TD we'd be saying the house sale was real typical of gaimbinism

So if gaimbinism is a major influence on who you vote for I'd say consider Fine Gael instead or don't vote for either of them.

What I'd like to know is your opinion on how long the greens stayed in government. Do you think they chose the right time to leave government or should they have pulled the plug earlier? What was the mood within the party members during the last 6 months of their term?

I'd like to see them get a few seats and go into coalition with FG or support a minority government. The most likely candidates are all people I'd consider above average dail intelligence so if in power I think they will vote rationally. They're not the type of people who would put the Green Party agenda above national interests considering the economic climate. In the debate tonight I can only remember Gormley plugging green ideas that would create jobs or better infrastructure rather than broader worldwide green goals

anna1962

Dear smoke- I try not to do much blogging- keeps me up late- and others reading it, but just thought i'd give quick reply:
The Lowry bit happened just @ time i came to live here, I read a little on details , not much, but I understand his behaviour was suspect and Yes FG they were very right to expel him- NO FF wouldn't do it- another blogger said even when Bertie left office he Still didn't have a tax clearance cert.

When a country has 2 major parties for a long time, and still has shocking gaps in infrastructure/ services and a Very big culture of white collar crime being Encouraged rather than punished, then i can't be impressed by either.

Yes I know Eamonn Gilmore's wife got a windfall on some family land she sold, she still did nothing criminal or wrong, such as bribe a councillor to rezone the land to have it sold at an inflated price., Ie she did nothing to inflate the price, that was the crazy bubble price at the time: If the wives of Enda, Brian,Miheal, John Gormely etc also got a windfall in the same way ( without their doing anything to increase the price of the land) I wouldn't really think less of them- or ponder and use this as criteria to vote against them-to me this is a bit of a side show, and Many honest people got unexpected windfalls due to crazy bubble- 1 person i know in south Dublin was offered huge money- unprompted- by a developer for his large garden.

However I am aware that FG always regarded themselves as above FFs standards of honesty, and I will think about what you say- to me Irish peopel deserve the best and most honest politicians.

Re Greens, I work hard full time in admin job ( not for green party) so am V busy, I am a part time green -not in the inner circle- I just understand they were on a tightrope:staying in to make change- but not staying in lto keep a tired and discredited government going too long.BUT if they hadn't stayed in till 2010 The Planning bill wouldn't have gone through - or millions to be spent on antique water system.Ciaran was also Minister for housing- and did get safe guards in place to see mortgage holders in trouble did not lose homes as yet.
I'm being polite- i dont have energy to debate best policies ahead for greens/ future FG & labour policies/country as a whole/planet BUT many peopel believe Drastic change is needed- I think both FG and Labour are talking about a committee to overhaul constitution. So I think new government shoud Immediately have all party committees ( inc. best of FF er's) to debate future of country:
constitution, composition of Dail & seanad, job creation, economics , energy - a new Ireland all parties should honestly be working for, an end to 'what's in it for me and my party?'

southsiderosie

The sad thing about the Greens is, if they had stayed out of government in 2007, they would be very well positioned today to be in government. I thought Gormley seemed quite reasonable and did well in the debate tonight, but he and the Green leadership are absolutely dreadful political operators.

If you lie down with dogs, you may get up with fleas. The Greens rolled the dice and lost.

gandalf

The problem is anna1962 that once the Greens threw their weight behind a FF lead Government they lost their right to be anti-Gombeen at all. Without their collaboration this outgoing Government could not have existed and they would not have been able to damage our sovereignty and sink the economy totally.

So imho far from repairing the "gombeen politics" they helped to extend them with the help of some of the main gombeens in the Irish Parliament, Jackie Healy-Rae and Michael Lowry.

As a member of this party you should really hang your head in shame rather than come on here and pass judgement on who the rest of us will be voting for.

Finally the boards.ie demographics is not fully representative of the actual state yet. So I expect the Greens to get 1 seat at best. I sincerely hope they return no TD's to the next dail.

the_syco

gandalf wrote: »

The problem is anna1962 that once the Greens threw their weight behind a FF lead Government they lost their right to be anti-Gombeen at all.

Heck, it'd make her pro-Gombean.

anna1962 wrote: »

BUT if they hadn't stayed in till 2010 The Planning bill wouldn't have gone through - or millions to be spent on antique water system.

Ah, so the end justifies the means? Propping up Gombeans, no matter the cost, so that the Greens can do some good? But does the good outweigh the bad?

Banbh

The Greens election leaflet just dropped through the door. It has the following listed among their achievements:
Planning Legislation radically overhauled to avoid the 'ghost estates', a legacy of the previous government.
Drove changes to financial regulation to ensure that the financial crisis, again a legacy of the previous government, cannot be repeated.
What they don't say is that they were the government or are they seriously trying to say that this was the work of the government before them and they could do nothing to reverse it.
The lying, smirking candidate on the leaflet will be last on my ballot paper next week.

Snakeblood

Banbh wrote: »

The Greens election leaflet just dropped through the door. It has the following listed among their achievements:
Planning Legislation radically overhauled to avoid the 'ghost estates', a legacy of the previous government.
Drove changes to financial regulation to ensure that the financial crisis, again a legacy of the previous government, cannot be repeated.
What they don't say is that they were the government or are they seriously trying to say that this was the work of the government before them and they could do nothing to reverse it.
The lying, smirking candidate on the leaflet will be last on my ballot paper next week.

I think they're saying that the previous PD/FF govt. did this, when they came in in 2007, building was dropping off a cliff. That wasn't actually their fault. They could do nothing to reverse it because the ghost estates were built or being built by that point. Stuff that happened from 2007-2011 is their fault as far as it goes, but that's mostly the bailout and crappy budgets, and also just not getting out of govt.

anna1962

I don't pass any judgements on Who Anyone else voted for- i merely said there are some parties I never ever voted for.
Passivity is what got the country to where it is- i am amazed when people in my work say - 'there is no alternative' I'll vote Ff!' so carry on voting for a bad party- because no other party is as big as them.
But if you aren't big enough to form a whole government, then it is better to be in coalition.
By the time the Greens had got into government, even in 2007, this country was facing collapse- though on the face of it, it looked ok- the property bubble had already reached saturation: even in 2005, i knew people in Dublin who could not get their over priced properties sold- on the market for a year or so.( In fact the economy was slowing in 2002- as I realised when i lost a job overnight)
Even IF FF had managed to form a government All on their own in 2007 ( no JHR, ML, PD's. Greens) bank bailouts, handouts from UK + IMF were Inevitable thanks to bad policies of previous Ff/PD governments coming to bitter fruition- there was no way any coalition partners could have Prevented this happening- only other solution I can think of is the Zimbabwe/ 1930's Germany one- print billions and billions of your own worthless banknotes, and let population take their pay home in wheelbarrows..and even the opposition did not suggest this, in fact the silence from the opposition was deafening, as there Were no other solutions. However it is a good idea to now try and negotiate more favourable % rates on the loans- and these may well be granted,as that is better to the lenders than a country defaulting.
FF has always called itself the Republican party- it put its country and people in that situation- and if were an FF TD or party member I would be ashamed.