''Don't act the sissy'' - What makes a man?

SparkyTech · 13-02-2011 8:38pm #1

I read a thread on TLL a while back about men crying, if their other halfs would be comfortable with it or not.

Got me thinking, does society condition men to conform to the machoisim ideology, or do men natrualy conform to it themselves? Why is it that theres such a social taboo about men expressing their feelings, showing emotional vunrebility, flamboyancy etc...without bieng precieved as weak or 'gay', even if they are the straightest bloke in the world?

ChunkyLover_53 · 13-02-2011 8:40pm

Well, not being in TLL for a start.

Oranage2 · 13-02-2011 8:41pm

Having a

Vag

and liking

The Petshop Boys

. Super manly these things are

pragmatic1 · 13-02-2011 8:42pm

What makes a man is looking after your family and standing up for what you believe is right. After that the rest is meh.

squod · 13-02-2011 8:42pm

Even ponsy Austraaalians with their fancy ''weather'' and crippling accents know better than to cry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

Conor108 · 13-02-2011 8:43pm

This video covers the basics tbh...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

EDIT: OH ffs what are the odds

brummytom · 13-02-2011 8:44pm

In before 'having a piece of wood set aside for stirring paint'.

starviewadams · 13-02-2011 8:45pm

DNA

Sisko · 13-02-2011 8:51pm

Some examples are needed.

I mean tbh if I knew a bloke that was in tears over your typical episode of greys anatomy or some similar shite I would question his sexuality.

But whether or not I cry over something is not influenced by a fear of being deemed a sissy.

Last time I cried was 9 years ago, my dog died.

I've gotten teary eyed plenty of times over strong emotional reactions to powerful scenes in movies or songs. But not the teary eyedness you'd get from something sad. I mean from say witnessing or experiencing something awesome. The next level beyond experiencing goosebumps kinda thing.

Like what happened to this guy in LOTOR : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLhvFSmhGC0

(worm tongue , you actually can't see it in the vid but tears roll down his cheeks apon seeing the huge army)

I pity those unable to experience such things from music or cinema. ( to clarify I'm not saying that scene gave me that reaction, its an example of a character in a movie having such a reaction)

bonerm · 13-02-2011 8:52pm

Just act like this guy. (the clue is in his name)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hiHAkK6KA

starbelgrade · 13-02-2011 8:58pm

Westlife have the answer. In this deep, meaningful & emotive video, they will explain to you exactly what makes a man a man, as they drive around in expensive cars & fly helicopters.

It really is very enlightening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbL3qkxEnlc

Snakeblood · 13-02-2011 8:59pm

SparkyTech wrote: »

I read a thread on TLL a while back about men crying, if their other halfs would be comfortable with it or not.

Got me thinking, does society condition men to conform to the machoisim ideology, or do men natrualy conform to it themselves? Why is it that theres such a social taboo about men expressing their feelings, showing emotional vunrebility, flamboyancy etc...without bieng precieved as weak or 'gay', even if they are the straightest bloke in the world?

Giving, not receiving.

Celly Smunt · 13-02-2011 9:00pm

perfect time for the perfect song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKjFnlW4lmQ

SparkyTech · 13-02-2011 9:01pm

Very insightful :pac:

strokemyclover · 13-02-2011 9:02pm

A test tube and two willing donors?

RichieC · 13-02-2011 9:04pm

Only cooking when it's a BBQ.

Carrying a copy of the sun rolled up in your arse pocket.

Sitting at the bar in a pub.

kicking the wheel of a mates new car to test something or other...still havent figured that one out tbh...

Snakeblood · 13-02-2011 9:05pm

SparkyTech wrote: »

Very insightful :pac:

Well, something to bear in mind in prison, at least.

orourkeda · 13-02-2011 9:09pm

bonerm wrote: »

Just act like this guy. (the clue is in his name)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hiHAkK6KA

A further clue in his name was that fact that he was called macho man randy savage

McChubbin · 13-02-2011 9:10pm

Its probably the titties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HSj-2shbqY

orourkeda · 13-02-2011 9:11pm

A 10 inch shaft

bonerm · 13-02-2011 9:14pm

orourkeda wrote: »

A 10 inch shaft

I don't see how playing with toys makes you a man?

SparkyTech · 13-02-2011 9:15pm

Sisko wrote: »

I mean tbh if I knew a bloke that was in tears over your typical episode of greys anatomy or some similar shite I would question his sexuality.

Completely concur. Hate that show with a passion.

orourkeda · 13-02-2011 9:16pm

bonerm wrote: »

I don't see how playing with toys makes you a man?

You'd be surprised the hours of fun a 10 inch shaft could provide you with.

bonerm · 13-02-2011 9:17pm

orourkeda wrote: »

You'd be surprised the hours of fun a 10 inch shaft could provide you with.

I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound like that.

McChubbin · 13-02-2011 9:24pm

bonerm wrote: »

I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound like that.

Lay off him. He's a complicated man who no-one understands but his woman.

Links234 · 13-02-2011 9:28pm

SparkyTech wrote: »

I read a thread on TLL a while back about men crying, if their other halfs would be comfortable with it or not.

Got me thinking, does society condition men to conform to the machoisim ideology, or do men natrualy conform to it themselves? Why is it that theres such a social taboo about men expressing their feelings, showing emotional vunrebility, flamboyancy etc...without bieng precieved as weak or 'gay', even if they are the straightest bloke in the world?

men are very much conditioned by society to act in a certain way, and to conform to certain standards. to consider just how much of a facade masculinity is, think about how guys will shrink away when their girlfriends ask them to hold their bag. social taboos exist because of rigidly defined gender roles, that if people express something that is socially accepted for their role, they're scorned for it. think about the fact that a lot of homophobia isn't so much a hatred of same sex relationships, but a hatred of the breaking of gender norms, we'll often hear people say "I don't care if you're gay, just don't act like it" so the homophobia is less about who a person is attracted to, but rather that someone who is male expressive themselves in feminine or effeminate ways. look at when you're buying cosmetics and toiletries, so many things have to be blatantly signposted as "For Men" or has to be directly marketed towards men, just in case a man might accidentally purchase a product that might be something for women and the sky falls!

but also consider that men in this country have a higher suicide rate than women. what does that say about how enforced and rigid gender roles are? how stifled men are when they're not able to express themselves the way they'd like, instead of how society tells them they should express themselves?

NeedaNewName · 13-02-2011 9:28pm

Having a tool box, with tools inside.

FACT!

mfceiling · 13-02-2011 9:30pm

NeedaNewName wrote: »

Having a tool box, with tools inside.

FACT!

Using them daily...not just having them for show

southsiderosie · 13-02-2011 9:54pm

SparkyTech wrote: »

Completely concur. Hate that show with a passion.

I'm a chick and I hate that show.

I spent most of yesterday painting and plastering. I can jump my car and change the tires. Next week, I'm going to learn how to replace light fixtures. I don't see these as "manly" activities, but rather if you own a car and/or a house, you should be able to do some basic maintenance yourself. Plus there is something really satisfying about home repairs - much more so than washing dishes or doing laundry (I hate housework!).

I don't really like the insinuation that there is something gay or effeminate about men who don't do traditionally "male" activities, or who get emotional - not all gay men are useless twinks that shriek like teenage girls, and not all heterosexual men can chop wood with one hand while slinging their barefoot and pregnant woman over their shoulder with the other.

I would say that there are some traits that I find more annoying in men than in women - for example, I dislike whiny people in general, but I REALLY hate whiny men. Vanity and a lack of personal independence (i.e. freeloading off of parents and/or friends) are also generally negative personality traits that I find particularly distasteful in men. I guess these are rooted in "traditional" stereotypes about gender roles, but maybe they are are magnified when thinking about a potential partner.

Cybertron85 · 13-02-2011 10:03pm

Links234 wrote: »

also consider that men in this country have a higher suicide rate than women. what does that say about how enforced and rigid gender roles are?

It just means we're better at it! Women actually attempt it more often, fact. They just lack the balls to carry through.

fitzgooble · 13-02-2011 10:06pm

...The ability to do what I'm told...

grungepants · 13-02-2011 10:11pm

southsiderosie wrote: »

I'm a chick and I hate that show.
Vanity and a lack of personal independence (i.e. freeloading off of parents and/or friends) are also generally negative personality traits that I find particularly distasteful in men. I guess these are rooted in "traditional" stereotypes about gender roles, but maybe they are are magnified when thinking about a potential partner.

**** that its your loss if you dont want a "freeloader"....attraction is about personality

Basically what you just said is "if he aint got a job i dont want his dick in me"

Whats the difference between being a freeloader and not having a job?

Gummy Panda · 13-02-2011 10:11pm

When you have Subotai to cry for you instead!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAZnpb3o4h0

stimpson · 13-02-2011 10:19pm

The Big Lebowski: What makes a man, Mr. Lebowski?
The Dude: Dude.
The Big Lebowski: Huh?
The Dude: Uhh... I don't know sir.
The Big Lebowski: Is it being prepared to do the right thing, whatever the cost? Isn't that what makes a man?
The Dude: Hmmm... Sure, that and a pair of testicles.

fitzgooble · 13-02-2011 10:20pm

...A daecent set of tits.

Crasp · 13-02-2011 10:22pm

I can't believe noone has mentioned James Bond yet

This is what every man should aspire to be: Charming, strong, trained in hand to hand combat and weapons, great with the one-liners and always does the right thing. eventually.

Him and Nick Heidfeld.

southsiderosie · 13-02-2011 10:30pm

grungepants wrote: »

**** that its your loss if you dont want a "freeloader"....attraction is about personality

Basically what you just said is "if he aint got a job i dont want his dick in me"

Whats the difference between being a freeloader and not having a job?

Well, I work really hard, and I am not attracted to lazy people. If that's a loss, I'll take it.

Being unemployed is not the same thing as being a freeloader. Losing a job means you at least had enough energy to get one in the first place. However, I would look askance at any able-bodied adult who was not either in school, working (or actively seeking work), or looking after their kids full time - and this is regardless of gender.

grungepants · 13-02-2011 10:45pm

southsiderosie wrote: »

Well, I work really hard, and I am not attracted to lazy people. If that's a loss, I'll take it.
.

Listen sometimes people do not realise te folly of their judgements
And this my friend is especially true with working women who have gotten a good steady job and let the role go to their head.
good for you im glad you have a job and you can get loads of self worth from it but not everyone fits into working in a cubicle...some women need to wake up and realise that the soul cannot be bought and what you feel inside that soul is more powerfull then "i work really hard"

I make shoes,play gigs and look for work in my spare time.

gurramok · 13-02-2011 10:46pm

southsiderosie wrote: »

I'm a chick and I hate that show.

I spent most of yesterday painting and plastering. I can jump my car and change the tires. Next week, I'm going to learn how to replace light fixtures. I don't see these as "manly" activities, but rather if you own a car and/or a house, you should be able to do some basic maintenance yourself. Plus there is something really satisfying about home repairs - much more so than washing dishes or doing laundry (I hate housework!).

A woman's work in the home has changed alot since the 50's

RichieC · 13-02-2011 10:47pm

Can I have a pair of shoes Grungepants? mine are bollocksed.

Wibbs · 13-02-2011 10:50pm

Links234 wrote: »

men are very much conditioned by society to act in a certain way, and to conform to certain standards. to consider just how much of a facade masculinity is, think about how guys will shrink away when their girlfriends ask them to hold their bag.

They're not men. A man wouldn't give a toss. Actually I'd define a man as a male of the species that has reached a point where he has some handle on things but is also willing to learn. Most of all he really truly doesn't give a **** for what anyone thinks beyond his nearest and dearest. And even then... But tempers that with a social conscience and awareness. So even if you think someone is being a tosser you dont point it out to salve your own ego(Have trouble with that one TBH). That usually comes with age and a bit of life experience knocking the edges off you though. Before say the age of 30 then you're still finding your feet. After? And you're acting like a tool, or a wuss? Bad sign. BTW before knickers get bunched wuss isn't gender specific. Indeed I can think of more male wusses than female, just like I can think of more female flakes.

social taboos exist because of rigidly defined gender roles, that if people express something that is socially accepted for their role, they're scorned for it. think about the fact that a lot of homophobia isn't so much a hatred of same sex relationships, but a hatred of the breaking of gender norms, we'll often hear people say "I don't care if you're gay, just don't act like it" so the homophobia is less about who a person is attracted to, but rather that someone who is male expressive themselves in feminine or effeminate ways. look at when you're buying cosmetics and toiletries, so many things have to be blatantly signposted as "For Men" or has to be directly marketed towards men, just in case a man might accidentally purchase a product that might be something for women and the sky falls!

There's something to that alright. Though again a man won't give a toss. Regardless of sexuality. Actually one of the few "real men" I know is as bent as a fiddlers elbow to use a colloquial. He is what he is and again does not give a fcuk but is socially aware.

but also consider that men in this country have a higher suicide rate than women. what does that say about how enforced and rigid gender roles are? how stifled men are when they're not able to express themselves the way they'd like, instead of how society tells them they should express themselves?

Maybe because they need actual guidance and all this "anything goes/cry me a river" guff is detrimental? IMHO women are better at finding their roles within themselves. While IME they're more socially competitive they're more aware socially than men are. Particularly young men. Yea they do more of the self harm thing in their teens etc, but usually balance out in their 20's.

For all the talk of equality men are still expected to be "men". Especially hetrosexual men. They're expected to be providers more than women are. OK look at southsiderosie's example. She (rightfully) doesnt want a freeloader. The fact is it is more socially acceptable for women to be freeloaders or to be reliant on others.

Men usually don't have the social support women have. They can be more isolated. I've seen this with my married male mates. They as a very general thing, tend to have fewer social outlets than their wives. Look at the divorce stats. We're told divorce is hard on women and it can be of course, but a man is three times, yep three times more likely to commit suicide after a divorce.

I think in the past men got much from the old style apprenticeship careers. Where more mature men who weren't their fathers helped them find what it was to be a part of male society. Common in tribal societies. You see less of that in young women, in tribal societies too. Modern life has many men growing up without a stable male presence in their lives in the first place, then they don't get the external uncle type roles either. Hence in extremis you get gang type behaviour. Well if you dont have a male role model at 13, then some cocky 17 year old looks like one.

grungepants · 13-02-2011 11:03pm

RichieC wrote: »

Can I have a pair of shoes Grungepants? mine are bollocksed.

Yes you may....I make custom design shoes.You can pick what fabric you want aswell.

southsiderosie · 13-02-2011 11:12pm

grungepants wrote: »

Listen sometimes people do not realise te folly of their judgements
And this my friend is especially true with working women who have gotten a good steady job and let the role go to their head.
good for you im glad you have a job and you can get loads of self worth from it but not everyone fits into working in a cubicle...some women need to wake up and realise that the soul cannot be bought and what you feel inside that soul is more powerfull then "i work really hard"

I make shoes,play gigs and look for work in my spare time.

When did I ever say I worked in a cubicle, or even had steady work? I ran away from that life a long time ago. Yet I have managed to remain self-sufficient, and would expect any future partner to do likewise, regardless of where and how he is employed. Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions.

grungepants · 13-02-2011 11:18pm

southsiderosie wrote: »

When did I ever say I worked in a cubicle, or even had steady work? I ran away from that life a long time ago. Yet I have managed to remain self-sufficient, and would expect any future partner to do likewise, regardless of where and how he is employed. Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions.

My point still stands.....its not about working in a cubicle ffs

Great your self-sufficient JUST DONT WEAR IT AS A BADGE!!!

southsiderosie · 13-02-2011 11:29pm

grungepants wrote: »

My point still stands.....its not about working in a cubicle ffs

Great your self-sufficient JUST DONT WEAR IT AS A BADGE!!!

I don't think it is a badge. I think it should be the standard, default situation for all able-bodied adults. Saying "I have a job!" is like saying "I take care of my kids!" Well, duh, that's what grown-ups are supposed to do. Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of men in their 20s these days who seem to be in an extended state of adolescence (this holds for women as well, but this thread is about men).

The point of the thread is about "manliness". Well I don't think any adult can call themselves a "man" - or a fully fledged woman for that matter - if they are incapable of taking care of themselves. If you're an adult and you can't manage yourself and/or your household, what's the difference between you and a teenager? No rational adult wants to date or marry a child.

''Don't act the sissy'' - What makes a man?

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