Nokia Bike Charger

C4Kid

http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/chargers/nokia-bicycle-charger-kit/features

I've been quite excited about this product since it's announcement 6 months ago, finally it's available and I'll be purchasing it over the weekend.

I'm just wondering has Anybody here already got one, they haven't been out very long so I'm sure there will be very few of You out there at the moment!

I have one question, relating to the dynamo, I've heard many stories about them causing alot or some resistance when in use.

Just wondering is this true or is it minimal?

Cheers.

Captain Havoc

I thought the solar powered chargers would have made this obsolete, they're only about €20.

carthoris

C4Kid wrote: »

I have one question, relating to the dynamo, I've heard many stories about them causing alot or some resistance when in use.

Just wondering is this true or is it minimal?

The addition of the dynamo will cause resistance. The amount will depend on the actual dynamo and the fitting of it - if it is fitted poorly it could cause more resistance. Whether it will be a large resistance or not would also depend on how much the person will notice it.

As an aside there are a few things you should consider before buying this. It can only be used to charge nokia phones - solar charges will charge multiple things; there is a universal charger standard in the works which would mean future nokias will probably no longer use this 2mm jack standard giving this a short life; the mounting of the phone to the bicycle looks ... weak.

C4Kid

Thanks for the replies Guys, much appreciated

I always assumed mainly because We're in Ireland, that those solar chargers wouldn't generate much charge, at least not as much as a Dynamo.

I'm looking for a charger to keep the phone (nokia 5800) running with GPS and perhaps Radio or video playing at the same time. I'm just wondering wether or not the solar chargers could generate the power such apps require and keep the phone chargered at the same time.

carthoris

C4Kid wrote: »

I always assumed mainly because We're in Ireland, that those solar chargers wouldn't generate much charge, at least not as much as a Dynamo.

They might not generate a massive amount of charge, and less than a dynamo, but many of them have a battery connected to them which means that you can charge the battery just by leaving it outside whether you need it or not, then the battery can charge the phone. The dynamo on the other hand needs you to be moving before it can charge anything.

Comparing this charger with the dynamo:
http://www.phonesonline.ie/Producti.asp?ProductID=228

It looks like it can generate 300mA (probably from the battery) compared to 450mA from the dynamo. But the solar panel only generates 45mA so if everything was flat it would take longer to get the battery charged than if you were using a dynamo.

C4Kid wrote: »

I'm looking for a charger to keep the phone (nokia 5800) running with GPS and perhaps Radio or video playing at the same time. I'm just wondering wether or not the solar chargers could generate the power such apps require and keep the phone chargered at the same time.

A solar charger probably wouldn't keep it charged - but you will not be using GPS and radio all day - there would probably be periods where it and you are idle - this is the time the solar charger could charge it up.

blorg

Mini solar panels are just not comparable to dynamo based chargers. The extra battery mentioned is not optional; it is necessary, the current is so low. It will not charge most devices by itself but will only trickle-charge the battery, which you then use to charge the device. On the figures from cathoris 45mA vs 450mA the solar panel will take ten times as long to charge a device than a dynamo!

It is better than nothing- but not very much better than nothing. I am on a long tour and use the PowerMonkey solar charger which gets among the best reviews for the mini solar chargers. The cheaper ones I have seen reviews that basically say you are throwing your money away. But even the PowerMonkey is very limited. I have been using it mainly in the deserts in Syria, Iran and the Arabian peninsula (I have never seen a cloud) and even there, left with 10+ hours a day or so of very strong sunlight, it manages to gather not quite enough power to keep my GPS going. E.g. I start with a full PowerMonkey battery, charge the GPS, recharge the PM battery during the day with solar, and the panel will get it back up to maybe 80%. There are around two full Garmin 705 charges in the PM battery on its own... using solar maybe this stretches it to four or five days. (I have three PM batteries.) As I say, it is better than nothing, but an hour in the mains at lunch is probably as good/better than as a day of solar, and that is what I was doing a lot. Auxiliary batteries are however very handy.

I haven't used it in Ireland but if this is how it works in Arabia I wouldn't hold out much hope. Alternatively, it is maybe possible that the extra sun in Arabia is simply wasted on it and the limiting factor is the capacity of the panel, and it won't put out any more in a very sunny climate than in a not so sunny one- I don't know how these things work. Larger solar panels would of course work better- but they are cumbersome and very expensive.

There are plenty of other dynamo/charger options but so far some of them have been very expensive indeed. See this thread for some more interesting reading. If the Nokia is coming in substantially cheaper it could well be worth a punt and I'd be interested in getting one myself. It is annoying that is uses the new 2mm Nokia plug- the 'old' 3.5mm Nokia connection (the bigger one) is basically the standard for most travel charging systems these days and you can get a tip to convert that to anything- it is what the PowerMonkey uses and tips are sold on the street from Istanbul to India. However from the Crazyguy thread it seems adapters from the 2mm one are available, so you would just have to source what you need.

From my research modern dynamos work very well and don't create a lot of resistance- hub dynamos are best but I believe even modern bottle dynamos are very good (and you can turn them off entirely, which you can't do with a hub dynamo.)

Lumen

Sidewall dynamos are hateful things.

I'd just go with a dynamo hub front wheel and an E-Werk or similar.

That way you get lighting and charging.

TBH I don't really see the point unless you're doing proper hardman touring (i.e. without access to overnight power). Are you intending to watch video as you cycle?

blorg

I meant to add, as you dont say what duration you need power for- if you only want to power 1 GPS phone for a day, or even several days, an aux battery, or just a few spare batteries for your phone should be sufficient. I am looking at the dynamo to power lots of devices- phone, ipod, GPS, torch, bike lights- for several weeks wild camping. The power monkey has 2000mAh I think which should fully recharge most phones more than twice I think.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Sidewall dynamos are hateful things.

I'd just go with a dynamo hub front wheel and an E-Werk or similar.

That wheel and the E-Werk cost €385 + hefty shipping charges. The Nokia charger costs €30.

Ghost Estate

blorg wrote: »

That wheel and the E-Werk cost €385 + hefty shipping charges. The Nokia charger costs €30.

who spends that kind of money on a dynamo? you can get a sidewall one for a fiver off ebay.

Its probably cheaper and easier to buy a couple of spare batteries for your phone

even a 1W solar panel is a fairly big and cumbersome thing to be carrying around.

C4Kid

Thnaks for the detailed post Blorg, certainly has given me some thought, I wasn't aware of these alternative options, so it's great You could give me so much info on them

I meant to add, as you dont say what duration you need power for- if you only want to power 1 GPS phone for a day, or even several days, an aux battery, or just a few spare batteries for your phone should be sufficient.

My apologies, I should have said, well recently I'm beginning to do a few 60-70 km trips, which as You say are basically just day trips. Im going to look into the spare batteries as I only need it for one day or two , I can't see Myself using it for camping trips just yet, as I'm not experienced enough to do it. I can see very clearly the huge difference between keeping the phone online for a day or two compared to several weeks:eek:

The last time I went out for a 60 - 70 KM cycle, with just Nokia Sports tracker running and nothing else and the screen turned off, it got me about 45KM. Theres also a bit of security when You know Your phone won't go dead, just in case:)

I am looking at the dynamo to power lots of devices- phone, ipod, GPS, torch, bike lights

Totaly agree, My Ipod lasts no problem being used for a a day or two, and even if that goes I can revert back to my phones MP3, but the torch and lights are a valid point. It's difficult because the timescales are so different.

That wheel and the E-Werk cost €385 + hefty shipping charges. The Nokia charger costs €30.

Just discovered it there:( I'm afraid I'll have to rule those out.

modern bottle dynamos are very good (and you can turn them off entirely,

I was even thinking for a way of disconnecting the dynamo from the wheel on the ascent and engaging it again on the descent if the resistance was high enough, but the only way to find out is using it Myself with My bike to see how much resistance there is.

blorg

Ghost Estate wrote: »

who spends that kind of money on a dynamo? you can get a sidewall one for a fiver off ebay.

A hub dynamo has less friction and is quieter than a sidewall dynamo. It takes less pedalling energy for what you get out of it. Whether it is worth so much more (and the hassle of building it into a wheel) is up to the individual. This is the €255 bit, although that price includes a wheel. I believe Shimano have a slightly cheaper hub that is only marginally less efficient. If you only require power occasionally, a hub dynamo does have the disadvantage that it cannot be entirely disengaged- I even read one study that with one hub it actually had less resistance engaged than it did disengaged. Having said that I also read that the drag from a good hub dynamo is "unnoticable."

The second part of the expense is the regulating circuit. You can't just connect your electronics directly to a dynamo; you need something to clean and convert the power to what your device needs. Otherwise you will probably kill the device. That is what B&M charge €130 for in the E-Werk, which seems to me rather expensive. It allows different voltages and current to be selected, but given that virtually every gadget these days charges at USB-standard 5V I am not sure this is absolutely necessary. What it will do, I think, that the others will not, is allow you to charge a laptop.

Finally, not all sidewall dynamos are made the same; a really cheap supermarket one will probably be less efficient and less well made than is possible. The Nokia kit includes a (hopefully) reasonable quality sidewall dynamo, plus the regulating circuitry to charge the phone, for €30. As far as I am aware this is the cheapest option on the market at the moment.

Ghost Estate

C4Kid wrote: »

I was even thinking for a way of disconnecting the dynamo from the wheel on the ascent and engaging it again on the descent if the resistance was high enough, but the only way to find out is using it Myself with My bike to see how much resistance there is.

if you had a hub dynamo you could build a circuit with an accelerometer to see when the bicycle is pointing downhill and use it to recharge a set of 4 AA batteries. a sort of regenerative braking.

Ghost Estate

blorg wrote: »

You can't just connect your electronics directly to a dynamo; you need something to clean and convert the power to what your device needs. Otherwise you will probably kill the device. That is what B&M charge €130 for in the E-Werk, which seems to me rather expensive. It allows different voltages and current to be selected, but given that virtually every gadget these days charges at USB-standard 5V I am not sure this is absolutely necessary. What it will do, I think, that the others will not, is allow you to charge a laptop.

I can't find out if they are AC or DC. If they DC then a small low dropout IC voltage regulator might be all you need. Else a small bridge rectifier circuit should work and reduce it near enough to 5v

spending the bones of 500e to generate maybe 20Wh a day doesn't really seem worth it.

blorg

AFAIK hub dynamos are AC while most bottle ones are DC.

If you are away from mains power for an extended period and want lights or gadgets you need something.

I agree the Schmidt hub+E-Werk is ridiculously expensive; Nokia's option however is only €30, which I would be more than happy to spend if it lets me keep my stuff charged when away from a wall outlet.

dayshah

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I thought the solar powered chargers would have made this obsolete, they're only about €20.

They are fairly useless except for a few weeks in June when the sun is at its brightest.

You can get little windmills that you can attach to your bike. They work on wind resistance, and also can work if you are stopped and its windy.

All in all I'd stick with a hub dynamo.

Ghost Estate

one of these yokes would fit nicely onto a baggage carrier

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-Solar-Car-Battery-Charger-Solar-Panel-1W-NEW-/110647340798?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item19c3186efe

but then your carrier is worthless and you'd also need batteries. A 10-pack of AA's or a small 2.1aH lead acid battery would work.

penexpers

blorg wrote: »

I believe Shimano have a slightly cheaper hub that is only marginally less efficient.

A lower end Shimano dynamo hub can be got for a little as 30 euro from ebay.de. The SON is crazy money and probably not worth it unless you are doing frequent night riding, imo.

Lumen

C4Kid, good luck with your project, but I honestly think you'd be better off with a cheap traditional phone and a bike computer. Bike computers are properly waterproof, won't fly off on a descent, have the display and buttons right in front of you, and the battery life will last a couple of days of non-Blorg cycling and can be recharged off AAs with a powermonkey yoke. A decent non-smartphones will go for a full week on a single charge.

I have killed at least one phone with sweat, most people keep them wrapped up in a ziploc bag in a pocket to stop water ingress.

@Blorg, the "power off" drag on a SON hub is apparently almost unmeasurable.

C4Kid

A lower end Shimano dynamo hub can be got for a little as 30 euro from ebay.de.

There are quite a few of these available at that price, I'd nearly go for it except I'd wouldn't be able to wire up some form of charger to the output from the hub dynamo.

I honestly think you'd be better off with a cheap traditional phone and a bike computer.

Yeah I can see Your point Lumen, I have a bike computer on board also, but for some reason I just like the idea of the GPS tracking and it's more accurate for routes. The use of Garmin for directions as well is handy sometimes. I can use the phone for various other things and I know I'll always have charge. I have to agree the plastic bag is a common sight and annoying, but I can live with it. Thats Just me though I'm not disagreeing with You.

At least I've got some more options now that I never thought of before my post.

C4Kid

Just thought I'd let You know, after some consideration, I reverted back to my original plan and ordered the Nokia Charger.

I have to say I'm actually quite impressed considering what I paid, there isn't too much noticable drag and at least I can disengage it if needs be.

Took some time fitting it which I expected because I've a mountain bike, and had to fabricate my own bracket to fit around the forks, but it wasn't too bad.

If anybody is interested in getting this and has a mountain bike which will require a custom bracket, then let Me know and I'll upload some pics.:)

blorg

I don't have a mountain bike but would still be interested in pics. I would have to attach it to a carbon cyclocross fork. It ends with a modern (small) Nokia tip that isn't changeable, I presume? Does it charge the phone as quickly as a mains charger?

Lumen

TheRegister review here.