GEP Entry 2011

sparrow3

Hi guys & girls,

I know its a bit premature to be talking about the GAMSAT scores for entry in 2011 but wanted to see what peoples feelings are.

With more and more people deciding to go back and study medicine, do people think the minimum entry points will jump this year. I know RCSI jumped 3 last year. Is UCD likely to do the same this year ?

What do people think the minimum score will be to get in ?

Does anyone know if the rumours are true about the number of places increasing in UCD and Limerick

Anyway thanks in advance to those who comment

rbrbrb

I'm 1st GEM UCD. We've been told by people in high places in UCD that they are planning on introducing more places and as far as I know there will be a significant increase. I wouldn't take that as gospel but it's certainly what they are planning.

imported_guy

rbrbrb wrote: »

I'm 1st GEM UCD. We've been told by people in high places in UCD that they are planning on introducing more places and as far as I know there will be a significant increase. I wouldn't take that as gospel but it's certainly what they are planning.

how many of ye is it this year?

etymon

unless a crane and demolition ball arrives at our building in the next few weeks, there ain't any more space in RCSI GEP anyway, as our seminar room fits us and only us (as my unfortunately spacious self will attest) - that's 64 total with 30 Irish/EU places
sooo... if more people put RCSI on the CAO, points will jump
Glad to hear more places will be available elsewhere
Grad students are gonna take over medicine in Ireland, mwah ha ha

rbrbrb

There are 82 of us this year with about 55 Irish. I think they may be increasing that to 70-75 Irish but I'm not sure. They certainly want to make it more even between grads and undergrads.

sparrow3

Well let's hope that UCD have a few more places next year.


From my understandign , the only other course which plans to increase its number of places in 2011 is Limerick. However, the class size is approaching its quota of +100 so this is likely to the last year.

Just a quick question to put to the forum
Do people think the requirements to get into Limerick ( 57 in 2010) and UCD (60 IN 2010) is likely to jump and if so , by much ?

Thanks

Cmack

I heard that the amount of people applying had doubled. I just heard this though and didn't see any credible source.

However if it is true it would indicate that the points would jump. But then again these new applicants have to negotiate the GAMSAT first to get the points. And will the increased numbers be offset by more places? So its hard to know.

I certainly hope they don't jump too much.

Biologic

I'd say RCSI will be jumping again anyway. As Etymon said, they only way they can increase places is to hang students off the roof. That means a large increase in applicants has to increase points. My (arbitrary and useless) guess in 65 first round.
CAO didn't mind telling people how many applicants there were last year. If you found this out it's pretty easy to work out RCSI points anyway. Divide the number of RCSI places into total applicants and it'll give you the top % of people that can be guaranteed a place. Find this percentile on the graph from last year and that'll be a pretty good estimate at the round 0 cut off.

spagboll

the biggest shock of last years gamsat was UCD staying the same with a final cutoff of 60 despite a 275% increase in places

rcsi was always going to jump but 63 is high imo, 64 in Pennisula in the UK is the highest I've heard of

I think Limerick will go up when their new med building is finished this year and they have their first graduates

For 2011, St Georges London went from 60 to 61 and Notts from 60 to 59

With fees being back in the UK there might be a flood of UK students with good gamsats and bad interviews. Unsuccessful applicants choosing to stay in the UK to attempt another year of interviews as opposed to going to Ireland was from what I gather a financial decision that now no longer holds water

Sid_Justice

how many of the new ucd places were for non-eu?

del85

Did GAMSAT in Britland last September and could not believe my luck when I managed to scrape a 60. Was truly chuffed.

It'll be properly gutting if the points for all courses jump to beyond 60 this year, cos I don't see myself doing any better in the Irish version next month.

Biologic

del85 wrote: »

Did GAMSAT in Britland last September and could not believe my luck when I managed to scrape a 60. Was truly chuffed.

It'll be properly gutting if the points for all courses jump to beyond 60 this year, cos I don't see myself doing any better in the Irish version next month.

Assuming 180 places again this year, there would have to be about 1500 applicants to drive it about a 60 cut-off. That's assuming 100% of people accept 1st round offers too. VERY unlikely considering there were half that many applicants last year.

sparrow3

Is there any way of finding out how many people have applied this year with CAO for Graduate Medicine ?

I remember UL sent an email around last year inviting all applicants to an open day - however they cc'd everyone on the mail thus you could see how many people applied ( i think it was about 750)

del85

Biologic wrote: »

Assuming 180 places again this year, there would have to be about 1500 applicants to drive it about a 60 cut-off. That's assuming 100% of people accept 1st round offers too. VERY unlikely considering there were half that many applicants last year.

Cheers, that's good to know.

I fired off an email asking how many people applied for Grad Med this year, and the CAO replied that the number is broadly similar to last time. Which is nice.

sparrow3

Hope everyone's study is coming along swimmingly !!

Just wanted to see if anyone could answer this question for me

When you recieve your GAMSAT results, there is a percentile curve to compare your result. Does anyone know if the GAMSAT Ireland 2011 curve include people who sit the exam in the UK . From what i understand, quite a lot of people sit the exam in the UK in March as well

thanks

spagboll

sparrow3 wrote: »

Hope everyone's study is coming along swimmingly !!

Just wanted to see if anyone could answer this question for me

When you recieve your GAMSAT results, there is a percentile curve to compare your result. Does anyone know if the GAMSAT Ireland 2011 curve include people who sit the exam in the UK . From what i understand, quite a lot of people sit the exam in the UK in March as well

thanks

hi sparrow

A 60 in Ireland is a 60 in the UK, but they can represent different percentiles

Last year I scored 60 in the UK, this was the 86th percentile in the UK in 2010. In 2010 a 60 in Ireland was the 88th percentile, so I went up 2 ranks without doing anything!

I think a higher proportion of those that sit the GAMSAT in Ireland are "serious candidates", given the fees for GEM, than in the UK. So it's easier to beat the pack in the UK!

Good Luck!

imported_guy

spagboll wrote: »

hi sparrow

A 60 in Ireland is a 60 in the UK, but they can represent different percentiles

Last year I scored 60 in the UK, this was the 86th percentile in the UK in 2010. In 2010 a 60 in Ireland was the 88th percentile, so I went up 2 ranks without doing anything!

I think a higher proportion of those that sit the GAMSAT in Ireland are "serious candidates", given the fees for GEM, than in the UK. So it's easier to beat the pack in the UK!

Good Luck!

strong math skills bro :cool:

if 60 in the irish exam was 88th percentile that means its easier for you to get a place in ireland, not harder, since there were 2% less people in ireland that scored higher than you.

88% means you beat more people in the pack, not less.

who cares about beating the pack though, its the score that counts, not the percentile. 2 precentile difference isnt huge, the exam in UK might have been slightly harder, and the irish one easier, a 60 on the UK one is directly compareable to a 60 on the irish one, or so ACER say.

del85

imported_guy wrote: »

strong math skills bro :cool:

if 60 in the irish exam was 88th percentile that means its easier for you to get a place in ireland, not harder, since there were 2% less people in ireland that scored higher than you.

88% means you beat more people in the pack, not less.

In fairness, I think that's pretty much exactly the point he/she was making.

imported_guy

spagboll wrote: »

hi sparrow

A 60 in Ireland is a 60 in the UK, but they can represent different percentiles

Last year I scored 60 in the UK, this was the 86th percentile in the UK in 2010. In 2010 a 60 in Ireland was the 88th percentile, so I went up 2 ranks without doing anything!

I think a higher proportion of those that sit the GAMSAT in Ireland are "serious candidates", given the fees for GEM, than in the UK. So it's easier to beat the pack in the UK!

Good Luck!

imported_guy wrote: »

strong math skills bro :cool:

if 60 in the irish exam was 88th percentile that means its easier for you to get a place in ireland, not harder, since there were 2% less people in ireland that scored higher than you.

88% means you beat more people in the pack, not less.

who cares about beating the pack though, its the score that counts, not the percentile. 2 precentile difference isnt huge, the exam in UK might have been slightly harder, and the irish one easier, a 60 on the UK one is directly compareable to a 60 on the irish one, or so ACER say.

del85 wrote: »

In fairness, I think that's pretty much exactly the point he/she was making.

how can you say the two sentences represent the same side of the argument?

if you're in the 88th %ile that means you did better than someone who is at 86th %ile, getting a lower %ile rank means you did worse than another 2% of people, so the "english pack" is smarter than the "irish pack", which is the opposite of what spagboll suggested, or thats how i interpreted it anyway.

comprende?

spagboll

86th UK = 60
88th Ireland = 60

86th Ireland ~59

If I sat the Gamsat in Ireland with an identical performance to what I did in the UK I would have got 59

Open to correction

del85

imported_guy wrote: »

how can you say the two sentences represent the same side of the argument?

if you're in the 88th %ile that means you did better than someone who is at 86th %ile, getting a lower %ile rank means you did worse than another 2% of people, so the "english pack" is smarter than the "irish pack", which is the opposite of what spagboll suggested, or thats how i interpreted it anyway.

comprende?

No comprendo.

Spagboll said that a score of 60 put him/her in the 86th percentile in the UK.

Spagboll then said that the same score put him/her in the 88th percentile in Ireland

That's true.

The comment "I went up 2 ranks without doing anything" was a recognition that his/her score of 60 is more competitive in Ireland than in the UK.

The "beat the pack" comment was a suggestion that you can beat the Irish pack if you do GMASAT in the UK.

That's how I interpreted it anyway.

spagboll

del85 wrote: »

No comprendo.

Spagboll said that a score of 60 put him/her in the 86th percentile in the UK.

Spagboll then said that the same score put him/her in the 88th percentile in Ireland

That's true.

The comment "I went up 2 ranks without doing anything" was a recognition that his/her score of 60 is more competitive in Ireland than in the UK.

The "beat the pack" comment was a suggestion that you can beat the Irish pack if you do GMASAT in the UK.

That's how I interpreted it anyway.

thats what I meant!

all this confusion is good training for the exam anyway

imported_guy

spagboll wrote: »

86th UK = 60
88th Ireland = 60

86th Ireland ~59

If I sat the Gamsat in Ireland with an identical performance to what I did in the UK I would have got 59

Open to correction

its just a small technicality

heres how i see it

60 in ireland and 60 in the UK is the same thing, if the cut off was 60 you'd get the place no matter what

lets take ireland

lets say only 100 people took the GAMSAT

you got 60, that means you did better than 87 people (you're the 88th %ile), and there are 12 people who did better than you

lets take UK now

100 people do the GAMSAT there

you get 60, that means you only did better than 85 other people, not 87 other people, and there are 14 people who did better than you

bottom line

ireland = you were better than 87 others

in UK you were only better than 85 others

in simple terms that means you BEAT more people in ireland, and in the UK its the other way around. (that means you are smarter than 87 irish people but only 85 brits)


hope that explains it, im not a mathematician, this is what 3 years of mechanical engineering math has taught me anyway, i could be wrong.

del85

spagboll wrote: »

thats what I meant!

Thought so!

spagboll wrote: »

all this confusion is good training for the exam anyway

true it's like section 1 all over again

rbrbrb

actually it's not the score that matters purely by itself, if it were then there would be no change in score requirement from year to year. the percentile rank is what it's all about - you're competing against other candidates so everything hinges on percentile rank

spagboll

the use of the phrase "beat the english pack" is the mistake I made, can I rephrase it as "it's easier to beat the Irish pack with a UK score"

my point of getting a higher score in the UK than Ireland on identical perfromances is valid

A 60 in the UK is as good as a 59 in Ireland in 2010! This may be because stronger top level candiates in the UK run away with the gamsat and stretch the curve towards higher scores

I'm guessing your from the UK and took offence importedguy? If so it wasn't intended

imported_guy

rbrbrb wrote: »

actually it's not the score that matters purely by itself, if it were then there would be no change in score requirement from year to year. the percentile rank is what it's all about - you're competing against other candidates so everything hinges on percentile rank

not quiet.

a score of 60 can never be 99th percentile, no matter how dumb a population is, lets say country "A" is full of dumbasses.

lets say there are 3 kinds of dumbasses, some are cluless retarded dumbasses, (the ones who score 30-40) they're on the left of the curve

then theyre are dumbasses, who are in the middle of the curve (around the 50-60 percentile mark)

then there are dumbasses who are not so dumb and score on the 90th percentile (on the right)

ACER marks it so even the "dumbasses who are not so dumb" who get a high score, like 99th percentile score, will still probably be around 70-80, even if you get 90% of the questions wrong.

spagboll wrote: »

the use of the phrase "beat the english pack" is the mistake I made, can I rephrase it as "it's easier to beat the Irish pack with a UK score"

my point of getting a higher score in the UK than Ireland on identical perfromances is valid

A 60 in the UK is as good as a 59 in Ireland in 2010! This may be because stronger top level candiates in the UK run away with the gamsat and stretch the curve towards higher scores

I'm guessing your from the UK and took offence importedguy? If so it wasn't intended

haha no im not , i didnt take any offence, and i think your rephrased statement makes more sense , but still the "60 in the uk is as good as 59 in ireland" is still wrong

you can compare 2 scores, you can compare 2 precentile curves, but you cant compare one score to a different percentile curve.

a 60 is 60, there is no "universal curve" people who took an exam in 2010 can use their score in 2012

now which percentile curve will you look at when you compare competitiveness of a "60" score, if you took the exam in sept 2010, but are applying in 2012?

sept 2010? march 2011? sept 2011? or march 2012?

imported_guy

here is the phenomenon known as "grade curving" they use it in america alot, where classes are really competitive in college, as most people go on to post graduate education


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grading_on_a_curve ACER follows a similar concept


lets say there are 100 people in a class in a college in america

a course requires 40% to pass

50 people score 0

49 people score 40

1 person scores 45

the 1 person is who scores 45 is on the 99th percentile, or in top 1% of the class

in most "post grad" courses in america, the interviwers dont care that he got a sh*t score like 45, all they care about is that he was in the top 1% of the class


*disclaimer* the curve would look pretty weird with the scores i used, but 99th percentile would still be 45.

spagboll

we'll agree to disagree

What college are all the 2011 cohort opting for? RCSI still the top choice?

sparrow3

I am sure Surgeons will be top choice again.

UCD is my first choice - got a score of 61 in Sept.

To be honest, i just really want to study medicine so wherever i get in is a blessing - so let's hope the points don't jump too much

Do you think i have any hope of UCD with 61 this year ?

spagboll

sparrow3 wrote: »

I am sure Surgeons will be top choice again.

UCD is my first choice - got a score of 61 in Sept.

To be honest, i just really want to study medicine so wherever i get in is a blessing - so let's hope the points don't jump too much

Do you think i have any hope of UCD with 61 this year ?

hard to know, i was way off last year in my predictions, way off:o

neurodegenerate

I'd say 61 will be enough for UCD this year - good luck!:) I have RCSI as my first choice but don't think I've a chance of getting in! I've Cork number two so fingers crossed the points won't rise there! I don't know how I'll stick the wait till august...!

sparrow3

Well best of luck to you neurodegenerate , what points are you hoping to get in on

neurodegenerate

I've 59, so cautiously optimistic about cork! I'd be very happy with limerick either, I just heard about the open day UL is having on march 31st, hopefully that will be helpful! Are the number of places increasing in any of the courses does anyone know?

sparrow3

I'd say you'll definitely get Cork with 59 - best of luck .

At least you know that with 59 you will be doing medicine somewhere come September which is the main thing

The rumours is that UL are increasing their places to meet their quota for the class size but that the increase in places is not as sinificant as last year . Also, there is talk that UCD are going to add a few more places too.

brainyladybug

Hi Sparrow

I think you are fretting far too much... You will your pick of UCD, Limerick or Cork with 61.

P.s. I think you're hot.

Wilhelmet

neurodegenerate wrote: »

I've 59, so cautiously optimistic about cork! I'd be very happy with limerick either, I just heard about the open day UL is having on march 31st, hopefully that will be helpful! Are the number of places increasing in any of the courses does anyone know?

Hey Neuro,

Incase you haven't heard, both UCD and UL are both increasing their places:

UL increasing to 70 to 90 (although it could be 25 extra places, I think)
UCD increasing from 55 to 77

Also, contrary to what was said earlier in this thread (someone said applicants had doubled), CAO applications have actually dropped this year from 760 last year to 680 this year. So things are definitely looking good this year for at least stability in points, and even a possible drop.

With 80 less applicants, and approximately 45 new places, that's a total difference of 125 lower from last year, which is a drop in 'place demand' of almost 20%, quite significant.

RCSI = 30
UCD = 77
UCC = 25
UL = 90

Total Places = 222
Total Applicants = 680 (therefore 458 will miss out)

Which means that literally 1 in 3 people will definitely get a place somewhere this year, which is a great percentage! Therefore: 458/680 = 0.67 x 100 = 67%percentile. Therefore judging by this years Gamsat Curve, everyone with a 55-56 and above should get a place somewhere. Obviously, there are variables that this doesn't take into account, like some people will have scores from September and such, but by and large, things are definitely looking better than last year you could say.

Scientist1

Wilhelmet wrote: »

Hey Neuro,

Incase you haven't heard, both UCD and UL are both increasing their places:

UL increasing to 70 to 90 (although it could be 25 extra places, I think)
UCD increasing from 55 to 77

Also, contrary to what was said earlier in this thread (someone said applicants had doubled), CAO applications have actually dropped this year from 760 last year to 680 this year. So things are definitely looking good this year for at least stability in points, and even a possible drop.

With 80 less applicants, and approximately 45 new places, that's a total difference of 125 lower from last year, which is a drop in 'place demand' of almost 20%, quite significant.

RCSI = 30
UCD = 77
UCC = 25
UL = 90

Total Places = 222
Total Applicants = 680 (therefore 458 will miss out)

Which means that literally 1 in 3 people will definitely get a place somewhere this year, which is a great percentage! Therefore: 458/680 = 0.67 x 100 = 67%percentile. Therefore judging by this years Gamsat Curve, everyone with a 55-56 and above should get a place somewhere. Obviously, there are variables that this doesn't take into account, like some people will have scores from September and such, but by and large, things are definitely looking better than last year you could say.

You have made my day! I really really really hope you're right, have 56 - hoping and praying to God, Allah, Buddha...etc...that I get into UL

del85

Scientist1 wrote: »

You have made my day! I really really really hope you're right, have 56 - hoping and praying to God, Allah, Buddha...etc...that I get into UL

Oh God the waiting! I can't take the waiting anymore!

Wilhelmet

Scientist1 wrote: »

You have made my day! I really really really hope you're right, have 56 - hoping and praying to God, Allah, Buddha...etc...that I get into UL

Hey Scientist1, yeah UL is actually increasing places from 70 to 95, so that's even more than I had in my previous calculation. While nothing can be said for sure, with the 10% drop in all GEM applicants and such an increase in places (26% across the board) giving a total drop in real place demand of 127 compared to last year, I would be very surprised if a 56 didn't get you into UL this year, especially based on last years UL closing on a 56*.

My gut "on the very cautious side" instinct is that it will probably have a Round Zero of 57 max (but very likely a 56*), and then in Round One, a 56.

Like I said, nothing can be guaranteed, but I think you could allow yourself some very realistic hope.

So, to update my previous calculations:

RCSI = 30
UCD = 77
UCC = 25
UL = 95

Total GEM Places = 227 (equals exactly 33.3% of all applicants, a great number)
Total GEM Applicants = 680 (therefore 453 will miss out)

Therefore: 453/680 = 0.665 x 100 = 66.5%percentile. So, still judging by this years Gamsat Curve, everyone with a 55-56 and above should get a place somewhere. (this still doesn't include people with UK scores from september, but I can't see that being too big a factor)