Overtraining and Illness

chakattack

Mods, before you lock this I'm not looking for specific medical advice, just opinions and experience about training load and staying healthy. I'm going to the doctor in the morning if not improved so please let the conversation flow

I'm at home on my sick (death) bed with a bad flu. I was sick three weeks ago with the same symptoms, felt like death the first day, significantly improved the next and took a full 5 days off training following by 3 days of easyish 1 hr spins followed by a rest day until I felt myself again.

I rarely get sick (once every 3 years on average) so I must be doing something wrong.

I did about 800km in January (including 5 days off) and a typical week is:

Monday=Rest (maybe upper body weights/core work if feeling good)

Tuesday = Hill repeats (trying to stay in aerobic zones and moderate gear)

Wednesday = Easy commute (40k round trip) or 1-2 hrs keeping hr in endurance zone

Thursday = Hard commute or Sufferfest on turbo (Approaching anaerobic)

Friday = Very easy commute or rest

Saturday = 80 - 110k flattish spin generally endurance with a few short hard efforts

Sunday = 80 - 110k flattish spin generally endurance with a few short hard efforts

Doing 3 weeks on followed by a rest week where I cut volume and intensity to about 50%.

Diet is ok but not amazing due to time constraints. Using recovery drinks and definitely eating enough after. Home cooked food most of the time and have home made soups/smoothies most days and fruit after meals.

Looking at my training log I don't think that I'm overtrained. The comments are generally positive, not struggling to complete workouts and motivated to train.

Sleep 6.5 - 7.5 hrs midweek and as much as possible at weekends (10+ hrs) + naps after long spins.

Are there any blood tests I should get done? White blood cell count? Specific vitamin diffiencies?

Any ideas? Anyone have experience of this?

All thoughts appreciated.

Diarmuid

You probably had a cold the first time around and have the flu this time.

chakattack

Diarmuid wrote: »

You probably had a cold the first time around and have the flu this time.

Hi Diarmuid...no I've the very same symptoms...bad headache, chills, aches, tiredness. No coughing, sneezing or runny nose.

Lumen

I've been coughing for two months and I've hardly been on my bike.

seamus

Listening to your body is as important if not more important than sticking to your training plan.

Do you find yourself going out and training even if your muscles feel tired (as opposed to just generally feeling tired or lazy), for the sake of sticking to the plan?

chakattack

seamus wrote: »

Listening to your body is as important if not more important than sticking to your training plan.

Do you find yourself going out and training even if your muscles feel tired (as opposed to just generally feeling tired or lazy), for the sake of sticking to the plan?

Hi Seamus,

I try to stick to that philosophy and train how I feel not according the the plan. That's why this is annoying!

chakattack

Lumen wrote: »

I've been coughing for two months and I've hardly been on my bike.

Have you figured out why?

Lumen

chakattack wrote: »

Have you figured out why?

Nope.

My current shortlist is: lung cancer, bronchitis, swine flu, ergotism, the bloody flux, the ague, and titanium poisoning.

kennyb3

Again guesses and not wholely scientific but id look at:

1. How cold you feel on the bike? are your feet getting wet?

2. How quickly do you shower/bath after?

3. Eating enough veg and fruit?

4. Taking any supplements? sufficient vit C?

5. Any contact with kids? My OH's nieces and nephews are generally the cause of any sickness i get.

Also i'd look at any patterns - Few years ago I tend to get sick on a Monday (not mondayitis or hateworkitis) but i always put it down to coming out of a club with no jacket/the general mingling in a crowded are.

Rarely go out now and dont find myself sick on a monday anymore.

lescol

Lumen wrote: »

Nope.

My current shortlist is: lung cancer, bronchitis, swine flu, ergotism, the bloody flux, the ague, and titanium poisoning.

Love it:D

I'm in the same position, currently on my third bout of chills, fever etc since mid December, voluminous amounts of snot and phlegm. Was thinking I'm now borderline COPD. It's somewhat reassuring to learn that others are also suffering. Found myself telling the missus that I'll be off the bike until I'm properly better this time.

chakattack

kennyb3 wrote: »

Again guesses and not wholely scientific but id look at:

1. How cold you feel on the bike? are your feet getting wet?

2. How quickly do you shower/bath after?

3. Eating enough veg and fruit?

4. Taking any supplements? sufficient vit C?

5. Any contact with kids? My OH's nieces and nephews are generally the cause of any sickness i get.

Also i'd look at any patterns - Few years ago I tend to get sick on a Monday (not mondayitis or hateworkitis) but i always put it down to coming out of a club with no jacket/the general mingling in a crowded are.

Rarely go out now and dont find myself sick on a monday anymore.

1. How cold you feel on the bike? are your feet getting wet? Have all the gear and never get too cold despite the elements

2. How quickly do you shower/bath after? Straightaway often with a recovery drink in the shower

3. Eating enough veg and fruit? Most of the time...might need significantly more?

4. Taking any supplements? sufficient vit C? Started taking A, C and E last week and on a general multivit before then

5. Any contact with kids? My OH's nieces and nephews are generally the cause of any sickness i get. No - Thankfully

My track record is that I have a very strong immune system - rarely get sick even when others around me are dying.

chakattack

Lumen wrote: »

Nope.

My current shortlist is: lung cancer, bronchitis, swine flu, ergotism, the bloody flux, the ague, and titanium poisoning.

There's a reason why I didn't google my symptoms

Hail 2 Da Thief

lescol wrote: »

I'm in the same position, currently on my third bout of chills, fever etc since mid December, voluminous amounts of snot and phlegm.

I had a couple of similar bouts myself around end Dec/start Jan. Got back on the bike too soon which didn't end well!

English Bob

Providing you are not feeling that you have a chest infection / productive cough I would say your'e fine to keep spinning within reason.
I reckon this is the time of year for all the cold bugs to raise their ugly heads so there isnt much you can do to avoid getting sick. Even with a strong immune system there are so many different strains of colds itd be impossible to have immunity to them all.
Have you ever taken echinacia as a supplement? This may help post sickness & maybe zinc can be of benefit at the earliest signs of any cold.
If you train with HRT then id say youve just been unlucky rather than having overtrained.

Esroh

OP
Go to Doc.
I had a underlying virus that was triggered by getting Hyperthermia after the W200 last year. I had taken my time to come back after that and it was after doing the Etape Hib and SK that it hit me.
So just go get yourself checked out.

At those of you who are coughing for months and especially coughing up muck. GO to the Doc. General rule is if you coughing up muck its an infection(did none of you listen to the radio when they on about the flu:rolleyes:). I had same after new year and left it for 4 weeks but got it sorted.

chakattack

English Bob wrote: »

Providing you are not feeling that you have a chest infection / productive cough I would say your'e fine to keep spinning within reason.
I reckon this is the time of year for all the cold bugs to raise their ugly heads so there isnt much you can do to avoid getting sick. Even with a strong immune system there are so many different strains of colds itd be impossible to have immunity to them all.
Have you ever taken echinacia as a supplement? This may help post sickness & maybe zinc can be of benefit at the earliest signs of any cold.
If you train with HRT then id say youve just been unlucky rather than having overtrained.

Having trouble getting out of bed and can't look at my bike!

Zinc is interesting. Major craving for seafood since the weekend.

Beasty

No more speculation/commenting on the nature of the illness, otherwise the thread will have to be locked. Specific medical advice should be taken on this aspect

No problem with discussing the principles of overtraining, and how that could affect health generally though

Thanks

Beasty

Beasty

Now not as a mod;)

My workload over the past year or two has been significantly higher than at any other time in my life. My general health has always been good, but since I upped my workload and fitness I've not had anything more than a head-cold/24 hour bug. Only crashes and ice have kept me off the bike

Now I undersrtand that with top athletes overtraining can be a problem. They can appear to suffer more from slight bugs. However I suspect that is also because at their level the slightest ailment can have an impact

So my view is overtraining per se is unlikely to result in more illness, at least not at the level most people who frequent this forum are at. However if you are ill, and it stops you doing what you want to on a bike, get yourself checked out at the doctors

victorcarrera

I think it is generally accepted that if you have a bacterial chest infection you should just stop and take a break. It is the quickest way back to fitness.
Have you lost much weight since getting ill?
You seem to be doing all the right things with the multivitamins etc but you might be slightly anemic so as a precaution try taking on extra iron in tablet form or guinness and lambs liver are also good sources.
Ensure your water intake is sufficient in case you are dehydrated also.
If its any consolation the last time I got a bad flu I was two weeks off the bike and it took another two to get back to the level I was at before falling ill.

kennyb3

The only other thing i can add is to keep an eye on your resting HR. Tunney had a few interesting posts over in the ART training logs re this only today.

morana

i am grand btw. Not a sniffle...

victorcarrera

kennyb3 wrote: »

ART training logs

What or where is this?

kennyb3

victorcarrera wrote: »

What or where is this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70575569#post70575569

Few posts back re overttraining

markdrayton

Wikipedia has a good list of overtraining symptoms. Doesn't sound like you have too many of them and you otherwise seem to be in good health so perhaps don't worry too much. Be sensible -- if your symptoms linger or develop further you should see someone qualified, just as you would if you weren't an athlete. As you recover ease back into riding paying attention to how you feel.

If you're training quite hard then it stands to reason that your body's immune systems might be weakened while they deal with the stress you're putting on it. If you're around a lot of sick people in a nicely air-conditioned office or train (another reason to avoid public transport and ride!) you could be at a greater risk of getting something.

mloc123

chakattack wrote: »

There's a reason why I didn't google my symptoms

Cancer or aids, its always cancer or aids.

levitronix

Same thing happened me in september had flu like pains in my joints from training, looking back i just got burnt out from any number of reasons

RacoonQueen

chakattack wrote: »

Hi Diarmuid...no I've the very same symptoms...bad headache, chills, aches, tiredness. No coughing, sneezing or runny nose.

I had about 3 or 4 colds between the Dublin marathon and Christmas, then got diagnosed with swine flu in the new year. Despite my training load decreasing massively(the snow helped me train less), it still evolved into flu. Take it easy, my symptoms were very similar to yours, I had a lot of coughing pre-flu but no sneezing or runny nose. 4 weeks back training now and I'm still not back to normal.

Look after yourself. It's not worth still struggling 4 weeks on, just to get a few extra km's in now.

Ryder

Beasty wrote: »

So my view is overtraining per se is unlikely to result in more illness, at least not at the level most people who frequent this forum are at. However if you are ill, and it stops you doing what you want to on a bike, get yourself checked out at the doctors

Agree...except that stress is cumulative so you need to factor work/family in and cut training volume/intensity accordingly.

Having said all of that, this year is bad for viruses so could easily have picked up diff ones. Go to a doctor and rest.

doedoe

your training schedule doesnt look over hectic to me if your used to training and your resting heart rate was more or less the same when you were taining, unless you've lost a lot of weight over the winter......anymore than 4/5 lbs a month can lead to immune system defficiencies associated with over training.
It is winter so you would be lucky not to catch some sort of bug like most people.....

BostonB

Lumen wrote: »

I've been coughing for two months and I've hardly been on my bike.

lescol wrote: »

...
I'm in the same position, currently on my third bout of chills, fever etc since mid December, voluminous amounts of snot and phlegm.....

Same here. On and off since Nov. All the kids got it too. Lots of people I know got it. Anytime I've tried to ignore and got out on the bike, it got worse. This year when I do get back in the saddle. I'll be much more appreciative of it.

running_away

Raw garlic is great for the immune system.

AstraMonti

running_away wrote: »

Raw garlic is great for the immune system.

Also helps keeping women and vampires away!

NeedsTraining

Chakattack, hope you are feeling better.

I have the flu for the past 2 weeks now and as a result have been off work, absolutely no energy (therefore no training), no appetite and no interest in anything really.

I recommend going to or ringing the doctor. It is definitely worth getting checked out.

Hopefully you will start picking up soon and get back on the road.

Ryath

AstraMonti wrote: »

Also helps keeping women and vampires away!

Women do curtail training though and longterm what they spawn is probably as bad as illness for preventing you training.
I'm promising myself the year my youngest starts school is when I start training for an ironman.

sy

Ryath wrote: »

..
I'm promising myself the year my youngest starts school is when I start training for an ironman.

Dream on

Ryath

sy wrote: »

Dream on

Oh no its happening. I'll have nearly 5 hours 5days a week all to myself I'm not wasting them. You really don't appreciate what having free time is when you're young and child free.

chakattack

doedoe wrote: »

your training schedule doesnt look over hectic to me if your used to training and your resting heart rate was more or less the same when you were taining, unless you've lost a lot of weight over the winter......anymore than 4/5 lbs a month can lead to immune system defficiencies associated with over training.
It is winter so you would be lucky not to catch some sort of bug like most people.....

No problem with weightloss this Winter....

I don't really bother tracking resting HR so can't tell if it's changed.

Thanks to everyone for the good advice and it's heartening to hear I'm not the only one getting sick. Feeling much improved after loads of sleep today. Guess I've just been unlucky to be sick twice in three weeks.

doozerie

It'd probably be no harm to get your doctor to refer you for some blood tests. It costs nothing, other than the time spent in the hospital getting the blood samples taken (plus the time spent fighting the myriad of bugs that you'll encounter within the confines of a hospital, of course!). Your GP dictates what tests are carried out but they can include a number of things which might (or might not) relate to your symptoms such as iron level, thyroid, etc. It's also a useful opportunity to easily get the likes of your cholesterol level tested too, speaking as someone whose blood tests in the past identified an unexpectedly high cholesterol level.

Some rules of thumb that used to be, and presumably still are, considered useful in self-assessing your state of health each morning, so that you can determine whether to ease off on training that day, include: did you get less sleep than usual overnight; is your weight down a bit; is your resting heart rate (taken when you first wake up, before getting out of bed) higher than normal. One measure that I've seen suggested is if any of these measures is at least 10% off your usual measures, then your body has not fully recovered from the previous day's efforts so take things easier that day. Despite the measure of actual figures though, like all rules of thumb it's still a bit subjective so it's a far cry from an "ideal" determination of your state but might be of use.

If you already have an iPhone, then the Ithlete application (one review here) claims to give an accurate measure of your state of recovery. I don't have an iPhone so haven't tried it but at 37euro (without a HR strap) I'd give a try out of curiosity if I did have an iPhone.

kennyb3

Excellent thread started by Tunney on this on the ART section, if anyone is interested. He lists 13 tell tale signs. Just thought id give it a mention here in case its missed as it might help someone out there

thirstywork2

get your iron levels checked,know a couple of athletes that have similar symptons and found that their iron levels where very low.