Volvo V50 2005 - burnt valve?

Melonballs

Was wondering if anyone has experienced this problem with a Volvo (or any car). We were travelling on M1 last week and car made a noise (like paper caught in front drivers wheel) and then it started shuddering and then lost ability to accelerate. We pulled into the hard shoulder.There was nothing caught in the wheel and car still could not accelerate. It has been in garage since last week and we are being told it will cost at least 2K to fix!!!

The car never had a problem before and was serviced annually. Seems unbelievable that this can happen to a 2005 car with low mileage. The garage has still not given full diagnosis.

The car failed compression test and apparently of the 4 cylinders, 1 is unsealed, 2 are nearly unsealed and 1 is fine. We were told the cylinder head would have to come off to assess full damage and full cost to fix. Mechanic suspected burst valve but said he couldn't tell until cylinder head came off and that once that happened there was "no going back". He asked if we drove car through water - never! The car is really looked after and hardly goes anywhere - to bus or train station mainly.

I just cant believe this can happen to such a young car and wonder if Volvo should take some responsibilty?

Any views much appreciated!

Anan1

Does it have a full Volvo service history? Sounds more like a disintegrated timing belt to me, if three cylinders are affected.

-Chris-

2005 car is 6 years old. You won't get any warranty off Volvo.

Anan's probably right, but the mechanic would have spotted that immediately. How much do you trust your mechanic ? :P

Melonballs

Hi it had one service in Aug 2009 at advance pitstop but rest of the them in Volvo garage. And the last volvo service was 2010 as it was given clean bill of health. If it is timing belt should it cost 2K? We dont have that kind of money. Also if it gets fixed will car be ok for the future or does this lead to more problems?
Had an opel astra before that showed signs head gasket was going to blow and were advised to sell it. Is this a similar case?
Thanks very much!

Melonballs

Mechanic seems to be ok but don't know him. My uncles are mechanics and one owns a garage and they said it is really unusual for 2005 car with no previous problems to just present with major problem like this. My hubby wants to stay with Volvo garage though to get problem fixed and since we were already being charged 330 for initial diagnosis it didnt make sense to take somewhere else at that stage........

-Chris-

They haven't diagnosed a timing belt, they haven't removed the head (yet).

Are they charging you €330 for a compression test??

Anan1

The only reason I can think of to let a Volvo main dealer do the work is if Volvo are contributing substantially to the cost. If not, i'd be thinking in terms of dropping in a secondhand replacement engine. As Chris suggested, €330 is crazy money for a compression test.

Melonballs

Hi guys. The €330 was for their initial "diagnostics" which included compression test and plugging it into volvo computer as far as I can see (I know nothing about cars!). They charge €90 per hour and said it will take 8 hours to remove cylinder head (looks a lot faster on youtube :-) ) and only at that stage will we be told what problem is and actual cost.

I was shocked at the 330 because they guy never even said what we would be charged for his initial once-over. We were led to believe no cost unless we decided to go with them for the work. That's why we feel we are stuck there now!

Im really annoyed about the whole thing

Anan1

Melonballs wrote: »

Hi guys. The €330 was for their initial "diagnostics" which included compression test and plugging it into volvo computer as far as I can see (I know nothing about cars!). They charge €90 per hour and said it will take 8 hours to remove cylinder head (looks a lot faster on youtube :-) ) and only at that stage will we be told what problem is and actual cost.

I was shocked at the 330 because they guy never even said what we would be charged for his initial once-over. We were led to believe no cost unless we decided to go with them for the work. That's why we feel we are stuck there now!

Im really annoyed about the whole thing

I'm thinking the best thing might be to argue the €330 down, get it out of there now, and bring it to your uncles.

-Chris-

I'd take it to an independent.

If it's 10hrs+ of work, and the indy's €60 per hour, you'll break even.

At least you won't feel so much like you're being bent over.

On the other hand, if they're misdiagnosing the issue and the indy can do it faster, you're saving money.

-Chris-

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm thinking the best thing might be to argue the €330 down, get it out of there now, and bring it to your uncles.

Or even get one of the uncles to go in and talk to the mechanic/service manager to see what level of waffle is going on.

€330 @ €90 per hour means they've spent nearly 4 hours on it with nothing more to show for it than checking for fault codes and working out some cylinders are down on compression.

-Corkie-

-Chris- wrote: »

Or even get one of the uncles to go in and talk to the mechanic/service manager to see what level of waffle is going on.

€330 @ €90 per hour means they've spent nearly 4 hours on it with nothing more to show for it than checking for fault codes and working out some cylinders are down on compression.

Thats shocking. Probabaly some young fella sitting in the car playing with the laptop for a few hours updating his status on facebook or tweeting..;)

kona

When you pulled in, was there any steam/smoke coming from the oil filler cap?

Was there any smoke coming from the exhaust. If they did a comp test and it failed on 3 cylinders, It would seem that something broke first, and you didnt notice, continued driving and did more damage.

A Burnt valve wont cause a total lack of compression in one cylinder and feck all in the other two. If there is no pressure in 1 cylinder and low in the other two it sounds like your bottom end has given up the ghost IMO.

Id agree with the lads above that, this isnt going to be cheap and you should get it to a indy as @e90 a hour your going to be dominated.:(

jagblad

Recently I paid 58 euro for what sounds like an identical diagnosis of a similar loss of power in a 12 year old Ford Focus - a main dealer, service guy sounded embarrassed to charge for the bad news.

(Car wasn't worth fixing, unfortunately, they were guessing anywhere between 600 to 1k+ depending on if the cat was damaged as well.)

Melonballs

Hi Kona. No didn't notice any smoke coming from exhaust or oil cap. Having said that neither of us know much about cars.

My main thing is whether or not this should have happened to a 2005 car with low miles. I know Volvo warranty is only 2 years but was wondering if they should stand over problem like this e.g. if the timing belt is gone - should this happen on car with low miles or could it be fault with way car was manufactured - maybe I am clutching at straws here!

yeah agree with everyone that Volvo charges are ridiculous - especially in this market - I feel another arguement coming on !!

kona

Melonballs wrote: »

Hi Kona. No didn't notice any smoke coming from exhaust or oil cap. Having said that neither of us know much about cars.

My main thing is whether or not this should have happened to a 2005 car with low miles. I know Volvo warranty is only 2 years but was wondering if they should stand over problem like this e.g. if the timing belt is gone - should this happen on car with low miles or could it be fault with way car was manufactured - maybe I am clutching at straws here!

yeah agree with everyone that Volvo charges are ridiculous - especially in this market - I feel another arguement coming on !!

Depends on how you drive it/service it etc. As harsh as it maybe just because it has low mileage doesnt mean its immune from failure. Depends on how you run in the engine from new, although they will be run in to a certain extent they need to be run in by the owner for the first few hundred miles. Also interesting that it happend on the motorway, believe it or not, its good to rev the balls out of the engine when new (obv not to the stage of piss takeing) This allows the conrods to stretch up the bore and for the rings to bed into the cylinder walls. If you only drive a car at lowish RPM then randomly hit the higher RPM you may do alot of damage.
The only way Volvo will cover this is if its a manufacturing fault IMO. Things vary from owner to owner, but IMO and I have no concrete figures to back this up, but I think that the reason most cars break down is due to misuse by the owner(again this may not apply to you and isnt directed at you!).

Ive seen some cars with 50k on them that are in bits.

Paddy@CIRL

A low mileage car is no guarantee of trouble free motoring. I can't imagine a dropped valve affecting three cylinders and leaving one untouched but I'm not a mechanic.

I'd get someone who knows what they are talking about in there ASAP.

Melonballs

Car has been treated like a baby - that's the killer. Its my husbands car and he bought it second hand in 2007 - the previous owner was the parish priest - c'mon! And since we have had it there has never been 1 problem and it has had it service annually.

Im not a car person and wouldn't be bothered servicing my car to be honest if my husband didn't organise. I just feel annoyed for him that there is major problem with car now and its going to cost a fortune to fix. Think I would feel better if he had treated it like cr*p and it had millions of miles on it!

Also annoyed because it "supposed" to be a good car. He spent ages deciding on what car to go for and wanted a safe one with good rep blah blah blah. I don't care once it gets from A to B but he thought Volvo was a good choice and would last for years and years.....

Nonoperational

I wouldn't read too much into it. Sometimes these things just happen.

kona

Melonballs wrote: »

Car has been treated like a baby - that's the killer. Its my husbands car and he bought it second hand in 2007 - the previous owner was the parish priest - c'mon! And since we have had it there has never been 1 problem and it has had it service annually.

Im not a car person and wouldn't be bothered servicing my car to be honest if my husband didn't organise. I just feel annoyed for him that there is major problem with car now and its going to cost a fortune to fix. Think I would feel better if he had treated it like cr*p and it had millions of miles on it!

Also annoyed because it "supposed" to be a good car. He spent ages deciding on what car to go for and wanted a safe one with good rep blah blah blah. I don't care once it gets from A to B but he thought Volvo was a good choice and would last for years and years.....

Parist priests can still destroy a car , so can old women and the usual stereotypical drivers who you presume are easy on a car .

Whats the mileage, what were the service intervals? Were these followed? I have the same, I spend a fortune on my car and its currently sitting in the driveway awaiting a rebuild although I do drive it hard, but it is serviced every 2K and anything it needs it gets, sometimes **** happens, as has been said I wouldnt look into it, Id find out the facts and go from there, all we know is the engine has no compression.... It could be a headgasket or a cracked head and may not be the worst outcome. Its very easy to speculate on a forum without seeing the car!
When the head comes off you will know straight away if its terminal or a easy enough fix.

Melonballs

Guess so - wish things like winning the lotto "would just happen":rolleyes:
Just annoyed because I am trying to save every little bit - going to Aldi, resisting clothes purchases.....and then we get this bill grrrrrrr

kona

Melonballs wrote: »

Guess so - wish things like winning the lotto "would just happen":rolleyes:
Just annoyed because I am trying to save every little bit - going to Aldi, resisting clothes purchases.....and then we get this bill grrrrrrr

Isnt that what you save for

And for some people winning the lotto does just happen, just like some people may never have a major bill to repair a car. Its all swings and roundabouts. All you can do is deal with whats in front of you, get the diagnosis, post it on here, ask your uncle and get yourself the best deal you can.

Melonballs

Just got a call - after taking the head off the cyclinder looks to be badly damaged. The Piston head also had a piece missing off it (it possible got into the cyclinder to cause the damage). It may also be off the turbo charger - and this would have to be eliminated from a safety perspective. The head has to be sent to a machine shop to see if salvageable.

The Guy said this car (2.0 L diesel) has a very good engine and never really gives any problems. He also said he has never in his whole long career seen a piece missing off a piston!

Cost is soaring - he has looked at full engine replacement also as the costs are up at that level (6.5 k). Not sure which way it will go - I need to get a 2nd opinion & get a mechanic to come to the garage with me as I don't know much (and may have my terminology wrong above but hopefully you can get the jist?).

I really cannot believe this. I will never buy Volvo again.

Melonballs

Meant to say it's actually a 2006 car... April 2006 to be exact.

Anan1

Melonballs wrote: »

I really cannot believe this. I will never buy Volvo again.

To be fair, I wouldn't take that out of it - could have happened in any car. Forget about repairing that engine - it's scrap. Find a good secondhand engine, and have a mechanic you trust fit that.

Paddy@CIRL

Melonballs wrote: »

Just got a call - after taking the head off the cyclinder looks to be badly damaged. The Piston head also had a piece missing off it (it possible got into the cyclinder to cause the damage). It may also be off the turbo charger - and this would have to be eliminated from a safety perspective. The head has to be sent to a machine shop to see if salvageable.

The Guy said this car (2.0 L diesel) has a very good engine and never really gives any problems. He also said he has never in his whole long career seen a piece missing off a piston!

Cost is soaring - he has looked at full engine replacement also as the costs are up at that level (6.5 k). Not sure which way it will go - I need to get a 2nd opinion & get a mechanic to come to the garage with me as I don't know much (and may have my terminology wrong above but hopefully you can get the jist?).

I really cannot believe this. I will never buy Volvo again.

It's not a Volvo problem, it's an internal combustion engine. It honestly could of happened to any other car (Believe me when I say it happens more often than you'd ever imagine)

If he's telling you that the piston has been damaged and has broken into pieces, he's not lying to you about replacing the full engine.

You could try giving Traynors a call in Northern Ireland to see if they have any V50's for breaking and price a full engine with all auxilaries. It should work out a whole lot cheaper.


http://traynors.biz/

ETA: They have four V50s for breaking / already dismantled. I'd definitely recommend even having your uncle ring them for you.

Hellrazer

Op I`d get a second opinion.Ive never seen much go wrong with these 2.0 diesels.

From memory a Volvo engine is around 3-3.5k new.10 hours labour @ 95 per hour is what we`d charge.

Im coming in at around 5k and would probably discount that down by 7.5-10% to get the work in the door.

Thats still 1500-2000 cheaper than the price youve gotten.

Get a second opinion.I can recommend a good ex Volvo Master tech that might be able to do it for you.

kona

Humm so it is a worst case scenario, Did he say what part was missing from the piston? Id find it unbelievable that a bit of turbo was ingested by the engine ( I think this is what he means).
Considering its across all 3 cylinders Id be looking at

1)did the timing belt slip

2) Ignition timing

3) fuelling.

Pre detonation can rip apart aluminium pistons quite fast, this is caused by poor octane fuel or over advanced Ignition.

As the lads have said, new engine.

Technoprisoner

petrol or diesel...the sound you described nearly sounds like dettonation

VolvoMan

Melonballs wrote: »

I really cannot believe this. I will never buy Volvo again.

It's not even a Volvo unit. The same could've happened to a Peugeot 407, Citroen C5 or any other car with that engine fitted.

Hellrazer

VolvoMan wrote: »

It's not even a Volvo unit.

If it was it wouldnt have broken down like that

Its an engine developed by Ford / Peugeot if Im not mistaken.

Bruthal

Anan1 wrote: »

Does it have a full Volvo service history? Sounds more like a disintegrated timing belt to me, if three cylinders are affected.

If the timing belt disintegrated the engine would stop running instantly.

Although reading OP again it probably did stop running instantly, as he said it would not accelerate i assumed he meant it was still ticking over when he pulled in, so maybe the engine did stop running instantly and so it could of been the belt alright.

Hellrazer

robbie7730 wrote: »

If the timing belt disintegrated the engine would stop running instantly.

And if it was the timing belt it would probably be covered under warranty.

144k or 10 years is the recommended on these as far as I can remember.

Bruthal

kona wrote: »

Humm so it is a worst case scenario, Did he say what part was missing from the piston? Id find it unbelievable that a bit of turbo was ingested by the engine ( I think this is what he means).
Considering its across all 3 cylinders Id be looking at

1)did the timing belt slip

2) Ignition timing

3) fuelling.

Pre detonation can rip apart aluminium pistons quite fast, this is caused by poor octane fuel or over advanced Ignition.

As the lads have said, new engine.

I dont think the ignition timing is a problem on a diesel engine?

kona

robbie7730 wrote: »

I dont think the ignition timing is a problem on a diesel engine?

Excuse my ignorance, but where does it say it was a diesel? Im presuming petrol.

Ignition timing in a diesel is dictated by the Injectors.

Bruthal

kona wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but where does it say it was a diesel? Im presuming petrol.

Ignition timing in a diesel is dictated by the Injectors.

Post #23 seems to make some reference to it.

Anan1

robbie7730 wrote: »

If the timing belt disintegrated the engine would stop running instantly.

If only. The valvetrain would stop running immediately, the rest of the engine wouldn't.;)

Bruthal

Anan1 wrote: »

If only. The valvetrain would stop running immediately, the rest of the engine wouldn't.;)

Well i know the engine will keep rotating via the wheels driving it, but as an engine it will cease to function, with all the resultant valve-piston collisions etc. The reason i said it was from the first post i thought he pulled in with the engine still ticking over.

Anan1

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well i know the engine will keep rotating via the wheels driving it, but as an engine it will cease to function, with all the resultant valve-piston collisions etc. The reason i said it was from the first post i thought he pulled in with the engine still ticking over.

That's a good point, I missed that one.

Melonballs

Me again. You are all so full of info its great. I have never used boards before - it could become addictive.
Yeah the car is diesel and there is no way I am paying anywhere near 5 - 6k to have it fixed. I want Volvo to take some responsibilty for this.
What if I had the 3 kids in the car and it stopped acccelerating the way it did and I couldnt pull in. Thought Volvos were a "safe car".

How could piston just fracture? I dont understand that? Surely they are built to withstand a lot?

Anan1

Melonballs wrote: »

How could piston just fracture? I dont understand that? Surely they are built to withstand a lot?

That's really the million dollar question. If the mechanic's already taken the head off then I think he should be able to answer this. If it was down to some sort of a manufacturing fault then i'd be expecting help from Volvo too, although I have no idea how realistic an expectation this is.

Hellrazer

Melonballs wrote: »

.
I want Volvo to take some responsibilty for this.

I doubt that you`ll get very far with Volvo to be honest.The car is 6 years old.Warranty is 2 years.No manufacturer is going to stand over something like this.

Ive seen Volvo reject warranty because a minor recall wasnt carried out or a service wasnt carried out on schedule.

What if I had the 3 kids in the car and it stopped acccelerating the way it did and I couldnt pull in.

Same thing could be said of a timing belt snapping due to non maintenence of a car and a host of other things that could go wrong with a car to make it stop suddenly thats not the manufacturers fault.Its neither here nor there to be honest.

kona

Melonballs wrote: »

Me again. You are all so full of info its great. I have never used boards before - it could become addictive.
Yeah the car is diesel and there is no way I am paying anywhere near 5 - 6k to have it fixed. I want Volvo to take some responsibilty for this.
What if I had the 3 kids in the car and it stopped acccelerating the way it did and I couldnt pull in. Thought Volvos were a "safe car".

How could piston just fracture? I dont understand that? Surely they are built to withstand a lot?

Im sorry but volvo in all probability will not cover this. The car is almost 5 years old. You could do some reading up on the mechanics of a engine and the materials used in it. The engines are designed to work under certain conditions, what happend in your car seems to be that something went wrong, whilst Predetonation or lean running is usually associated with petrol cars, it can happen with diesels. Predetonation is known to blow holes in pistons.

A diesel engine needs high compression to ignite the diesel, add in a Turbo and your taking about serious pressures and temperatures in a space no bigger than the top of a jam jar. Pistons are usually constructed using aluminium alloy and sometimes are ceramic coated as this has very good heat properties.
Its very easy to destroy a engine, they are not bulletproof and IMO modern diesels are especially vulnerable as manufacturers are pushing the engines further and further to offer the driveablity of a petrol engine.

Nothing would have happend to your kids, the engine would shred itself and you would decelerate, on the motorway if your using it right(another boards.ie fetish) you could just ease into the hard shoulder with no traffic to your left.

If you want volvo to help you out Id suggest just dealing with the facts, not using what ifs or blaming them on something you have no idea about.

I can post you a picture of my engine and the hole that is in the ringland of the piston, the pistons in question are actually designed for race use and are the best cast pistons I can get, The top pistons are forged but youd be looking at e200 a piston. The reason I have a hole in it is because of a lean mixture, advanced ignition, high compression and a heavy right foot.

Wetbench4

I was under the impression that an 05 s40 has a timing chain, not a belt?

Melonballs

I am going to get back onto Volvo. I have spoken with the girl there and she is very nice and helpful so am not planning to go nuts!

cpoh1

First mistake you made was leaving it with Volvo when you were advised by people on here to get your uncle to look at it and take it elswhere. IVI in Dublin do oem engine replacements. A second hand unit for this should easily be gotten for €1500 and fitted in under a day. Taking a job like this to a main dealor is financial suicide!

gibbon75

Wetbench4 wrote: »

I was under the impression that an 05 s40 has a timing chain, not a belt?

Only the ones with petrol engine.

VolvoMan

gibbon75 wrote: »

Only the ones with petrol engine.

Yeah, I think the 1.8 does. It's the same engine (Mazda) that was used in the Mk3 Mondeo.

keithclancy

Wetbench4 wrote: »

I was under the impression that an 05 s40 has a timing chain, not a belt?

No, Its deffo a belt, change every 10 years, or 240,000 km whichever comes first.

Must change mine pretty soon !

Its possible they put in too much oil on the last service. These Qwikfit are notorious for f*cking up a normal oil change.

Engine wise the Peugout is a great diesel. Its the rest of the stuff attached in the V50/S40 that goes wrong. Wind noise on the doors, poor seals, rattle from the front interior light. Rear washer jet gets blocked regularly as well.