When the IMF conditions come into effect, what can we expect?

CorkMan

I hear the situation will be a bit worse when the deals of the bailout is put into place. What can we expect?

thebman

FF to blame it on the newly elected government is what we can expect :pac:

Pure Sound

thebman wrote: »

FF to blame it on the newly elected government is what we can expect :pac:

They are already holding out for that, Brian Lenihan postponed extra borrowings until after the election

djpbarry

CorkMan wrote: »

I hear the situation will be a bit worse when the deals of the bailout is put into place.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean?

RichardAnd

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what you mean?

Agreed. OP, the bailout conditions are already happening. The 6 billion euro ajustment in the budget was the first stage and it will be repeated for some years to come. As to how much worse things will get, we can only speculate.

There is an aweful lot of fat that can be trimmed off our spending if anyone is brave enough to try. Remember, the state was run on about 35 billion euros only a decade ago so it's clear there's alot that can be cut. Either way, there's little we can do other than hoping for the best.

djpbarry

RichardAnd wrote: »

Remember, the state was run on about 35 billion euros only a decade ago...

That's an important point (although I'll have to take your word that it's an accurate figure!). There's an awful lot of hyperbole out there about Ireland being sent back to the dark ages by the EU/IMF, which is patent nonsense – they’re simply seeking a return to normality and sensible spending.

Average_Joe

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, we must get out of this on our own. Europe and all the arrogant, selfish ****s in brussels will destroy this country.They were a big part of the problem that caused this. They forced us to push through the IMF. They let the banks go out of control. Then they came and sent in the IMF and ****ing crippled us.
You wait and see... they will act like dictators and put us in a bigger mess than we were already in.

ashleey

Your conclusions are a 'little' extreme and border on the 'it's everyone else's fault' defence but it's interesting in light of current news from Greece where the eu/IMF are now forcing privatisations against the wishes of the govt due to 'slippage' in the program. Shape of things to come?

Nody

Average_Joe wrote: »

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, we must get out of this on our own. Europe and all the arrogant, selfish ****s in brussels will destroy this country.They were a big part of the problem that caused this. They forced us to push through the IMF. They let the banks go out of control. Then they came and sent in the IMF and ****ing crippled us.
You wait and see... they will act like dictators and put us in a bigger mess than we were already in.

The Irish government increased the spending by over 20 Bil in a span of a couple of years, not EU. The Financial controllers appointed by the Irish government let the banks go out of control, not the EU. The government fanned the property bubble by offering more and more incentives to buy (first time buyer mortgage relief etc.), not EU.

Ireland also has the option to tell IMF and EU to go stuff it were the sun don't shine today and borrow on the public market; of course the interest rate would be far higher but nothing is stopping Ireland from doing so.

dan_d

I thought we were already experiencing their conditions???Are we not practically into the "second quarter" of their plan?

RichardAnd

Average_Joe wrote: »

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, we must get out of this on our own. Europe and all the arrogant, selfish ****s in brussels will destroy this country.They were a big part of the problem that caused this. They forced us to push through the IMF. They let the banks go out of control. Then they came and sent in the IMF and ****ing crippled us.
You wait and see... they will act like dictators and put us in a bigger mess than we were already in.

Whilst I agree that the EU is a failing and perfidious organisation, we can't really blame them for what has happened to us. Out banks borrowed a fortune to lend out to people who had no idea what they were doing and who were unlikely ever to be able to pay it back. Our banks are our responsibility, we failed to keep them in line.

During the boom we acted like the loudest, fattest kid in the playground and now, when we've gotten ourselves up the S**t creek, we turn around to them for help. From their point of view, we're a bunch of waster paddies who they are forced to help to protect a currency we should never have been allowed into.

Also, they didn't "send in the IMF", most of the bail out terms and money comes from the ECB, the IMF just sat at the table and and gave advice. Further, the IMF are not global hit men that pray on innocent and vulnerable little economies at the behest of the big boys, when they go into a country, the damage has been done and they simply administer medicine.

Your post illustrates perfectly what the outcome of this recession will be. Joe Public will blame the countries woes on Europe and not open his eyes to the fact that the problem is, and always has been, the Irish people themselves. This is a democracy and we repeatedly elected FF, a party who never even tried to hide the fact they were a bunch of chancers, into power and didn't raise an eye lid until the house of cards came crashing down. In short, the buck stops with the man on the street.

Of course, this is a passing thing. In 10 years or so, FF will be returned to power on the back of promises of wild spending, tax breaks and general cute-whooredness that makes Irish Ireland and the whole cycle kicks off again. God help us

manic mailman

ashleey wrote: »

Your conclusions are a 'little' extreme and border on the 'it's everyone else's fault' defence but it's interesting in light of current news from Greece where the eu/IMF are now forcing privatisations against the wishes of the govt due to 'slippage' in the program. Shape of things to come?

It'll be interesting to see if the newly elected government can do regarding our corporation tax...

flutered

There is an aweful lot of fat that can be trimmed off our spending if anyone is brave enough to try. Remember, the state was run on about 35 billion euros only a decade ago so it's clear there's alot that can be cut. Either way, there's little we can do other than hoping for the best.[/QUOTE]
i agree but costs were a hell of a lot lower back then,
for instance the cost of welfare, the cost of goverment, the cost of living, if what you recomend to be put in place please cut everything else.

nialldabass

flutered wrote: »

There is an aweful lot of fat that can be trimmed off our spending if anyone is brave enough to try. Remember, the state was run on about 35 billion euros only a decade ago so it's clear there's alot that can be cut. Either way, there's little we can do other than hoping for the best.

i agree but costs were a hell of a lot lower back then,
for instance the cost of welfare, the cost of goverment, the cost of living, if what you recomend to be put in place please cut everything else.[/QUOTE]

Thats the joys of not controlling your own money supply and leaving it up to a foreign bank to isuue debt currency not worth the paper its printed on.
This and fractional reserve banking and the belief that the only way is globalisation. I could go on but most on here will never see the real elephant in the room even when its stomping on the back of your neck

djpbarry

nialldabass wrote: »

Thats the joys of not controlling your own money supply and leaving it up to a foreign bank to isuue debt currency not worth the paper its printed on.

No, that’s what happens when your government increases public spending at a rate far exceeding inflation, while shifting the tax base on to property speculation.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

micdug

Average_Joe wrote: »

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, we must get out of this on our own. Europe and all the arrogant, selfish ****s in brussels will destroy this country.They were a big part of the problem that caused this. They forced us to push through the IMF. They let the banks go out of control. Then they came and sent in the IMF and ****ing crippled us.
You wait and see... they will act like dictators and put us in a bigger mess than we were already in.

And the reason we are in so much S**** is because of the average joes that voted in FF for the past two decades. Lets get real - we had to ask the IMF and EU to come in because we proved we are unable to manage our own affairs. It's there money so they can dictate whatever terms they want. We had no choice but to take the IMF Offer because the alternative was no money to pay for any services or social welfare.
FF, and indeed all the other parties, are a reflection on the "average Joe's" of Irish society who seem to geninely think that Money is free, and a Goverments job is to distribute as much of it as possible preferably to average joe, either directly through welfare or indirectly by fuelling the property bubble. We will never solve the problem or change the way this country is run until it dawns on the Average Joe that he played the most significant part in our countrys downfall. instead of lazily blaming some bogeyman in Europe. Can you imagine in 2003 when McCreevy was lecturing the rest of Europe that they needed to copy us what our reaction would be if the Germans said no more money for us because we had too much.