FWB 700 ALU vs. Evo top - what's the difference?

Thirdfox

Maybe it's late at night and my head is befuddled with exam revision - but I can't seem to see much of a difference between the two models?

Looking at the technical data sheet - it seems that the only area where there is some difference (besides the weight) is that the length of the barrel sleeve is 515mm on the evo instead of 585mm on the alu.

http://www.feinwerkbau.de/ceasy/modules/cms/main.php5?cPageId=146

How is there such a large price difference then? The 700 Evo compared to the 700 Universal are very similar in price (evo is a tiny bit cheaper) - but isn't an aluminium stock going to be more expensive than wood?

Lastly any places where you can get a second hand match grade air rifle...if not 1500 is something that I could consider spending on a rifle - any other recommendations besides the 700? Anschutz 8002? Steyr? Tesro? Hammerli seem cheap saw a "set" going to 899 euro AR20?
http://www.stopper.de/index.php/cPath/26_190_194/category/haemmerli.html

Though of course, I'll have to be shooting above 550 consistently before I start contemplating treating myself to an actual rifle.

Sparks

Thirdfox wrote: »

Maybe it's late at night and my head is befuddled with exam revision - but I can't seem to see much of a difference between the two models?

Look at the stock back by the buttplate - you have different adjustments for the cheekpiece height and buttplate length. Plus, the evo's lighter - which means you can add more weights in different areas to customise the center of balance without going over the 5.5kg limit.

How is there such a large price difference then? The 700 Evo compared to the 700 Universal are very similar in price (evo is a tiny bit cheaper) - but isn't an aluminium stock going to be more expensive than wood?

Nope, they were the same price for most manufacturers five to ten years ago. It really is down to personal preference these days.
BTW, don't confuse the Evo and the Evo Top, the Top's a higher spec.

Lastly any places where you can get a second hand match grade air rifle...

The UK is about your best bet really. We don't have a market for second hand match rifles of any kind here really - rifles get replaced rarely, and with our shooting population so small compared to the UK, you just don't have the turnover you'd need to have a market.

if not 1500 is something that I could consider spending on a rifle

That's not going to get you a top-of-the-line match air rifle new, but should get you a middle-of-the-range model, or a good second-hand model from the UK.

any other recommendations besides the 700?

Lots

Anschutz 8002?

Good, but a lot of top shooters returned the ones they were given because they preferred more recoil. However, they're making a bit of a comeback judging from the photos of the line on the international circuit, though their 9000 series is competing with the 8000 series.
Personally though, I wouldn't get another Anschutz air rifle. I've had to make a lot of adjustments to my 2002 stock to make it fit and I'd rather get a stock that was (a) stronger and (b) better fitting and (c) lighter, from the start.

Steyr?

LG100 is very good - I've seen the takedown models used by the Cunningham girls to win several medals here and abroad, and they're very compact when stored, which is handy.
The LG110 is, as I've said before, a magnificent piece of engineering. Only rifle I've ever fired that had no recoil at all. If the club's one wasn't left-handed, I might have swapped my 2002 for it years ago.

Tesro?

Not too many around, but those I've seen have been putting in decent scores and the shooters I met who used them swore by them.

Hammerli seem cheap saw a "set" going to 899 euro AR20?

Personally, I say avoid the AR20. WTSC bought several when they came out, and the stock was lovely - ambidexterous, light, adjustable, usable by both juniors and adults alike. But every single one had a failure of some kind in the action, between connections, seals and just plain broke. Every single one went back in the end.
The AR50 isn't bad at all, but it's the same generation as the 2002 and the P70, so don't pay more than you'd pay for those (and 1500 would be far too much).

Though of course, I'll have to be shooting above 550 consistently before I start contemplating treating myself to an actual rifle.

Well, 540 is really the point where you can start fiddling and buying kit to be honest. (540's the 90% stage). Once the 7s go away and the 8s are now rare, that's the point where you have the fundamentals down well enough to start fiddling with finer details, and that's where having your own rifle and kit starts paying dividends quickly.

Also, other rifles you missed:
FWB P70. Second hand, but really one of the best air rifles ever made. Definitely one of the most robust (and once you've had a reloading lever break in your hand, you appreciate that ).

Walther LG300 series. There are a fair few LG300 models (the original, the Alutec, the Protouch, the Carbontec and the Anatomic) and all are excellent.

FWB 500. Pretty new model this, not seen any reports on it yet. But if the price was right, it doesn't look like it'd be a bad starting rifle.

Thirdfox

Merci buckets.

Here's a 700 Evo top for 1453 new

http://www.euroshooting.eu/en/index.php?Model_700_Evolution_Top&detail=1796

Though shipping isn't included - around 31 euro.

The evo (plain) is even cheaper 1261 euro and in a choice of 5 colours

Anyone ever have dealings with euroshooting?

The FWB 500 seem to be going for under 1000 euro new, could be an option.

Currently I'm shooting a club fwb 603, but I'm not entirely comfortable with the weight of the gun - might see if I do better going back to the lighter 601. That's why I was interested in getting a lighter evo and then add weights as needed.

Sparks

Evo Top for 1500? That's a very nice price. I wouldn't get the Evo plain though, those raiser blocks are just too handy. You'd wind up buying new ones anyway if you got the plain. The price on the 500 looks very nice too, but if you can stretch to the evo... well, the P700 family is pretty much one of the top rifle families on the line right now, if not the top family.

intershoot

Had an 'as new' FWB 700 Basic at £600, but I think its sold - I'll know by the weekend!

The only fault I'd have with the FWB is the fact most of the others are including a decent plastic carry case in the price, but Walther, Anschutz, FWB and Steyr are all top notch.

I'm using an Anschutz 8002 ALU at the moment, and I have to say I quite like it! I have never sold the Evolution model in the FWB, but they are currently £1,410.00

demonloop

Euroshooting = Miroslav Varga (Olympic shooter from CZ)

I'd add my vote to Steyr rifles BTW, fantastic reputation in FT circles - them guys know their onions.

It wasn't me!

The Walther LG300 series is well worth a look as well. I like their ergonomics myself. On balance however, I think it's difficult to argue with the FWB 700. Keep an eye on German markets. You'd be surprised how little you might pay for it if you know what you're doing. It can of course all be done rather easily if you happened to have someone over there who might hold onto it until it shipped to your local firearms dealer here (Since it could just be posted to them provided they're over 18).

Sparks

It wasn't me! wrote: »

The Walther LG300 series is well worth a look as well.

And then there's the Walther LG400, but I think that might be out of the price range of the OP. Lovely looking rifle though - I never liked the look of the LG300s , tried shooting with them several times and they just didn't feel right to me (mind you, thousands of others swear by them, so there's nothing wrong with them - it's just that, like pistols, some will suit some more than others and trying before buying is a good idea).

(Since it could just be posted to them provided they're over 18).

Yup, as Coronal just found out recently, the lucky git

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

And then there's the Walther LG400, but I think that might be out of the price range of the OP. Lovely looking rifle though - I never liked the look of the LG300s , tried shooting with them several times and they just didn't feel right to me (mind you, thousands of others swear by them, so there's nothing wrong with them - it's just that, like pistols, some will suit some more than others and trying before buying is a good idea).
Yup, as Coronal just found out recently, the lucky git

I had a play around with the LG400 last summer in Munich and I have to say, I just didn't see anything great. Something about it just didn't feel as good as the LG300, in terms of solidity or something. It may be entirely illusory, but it just didn't sit right with me. Like you say though, it's extremely personal. It'd be damn near impossible to find a barrel and action in airgun or smallbore that won't shoot. It's the stock that provokes the debate and controversy (With other concerns like balance and weight that are a product of the two items).

Sparks

Well... we did find an action that wouldn't (Hamerrli AR20). Could be that we got a friday batch, but me, I'm never putting my money towards buying an AR20 ever again.

Sparks

And yeah, there's a lot of personal choice in this one - I've seen the Steyr LG100 takedown just drill tens home all day long, but others take one look at it and just don't want to know (worries over the takedown attachment points and concerns over stock shape and size and several other ergonomic worries).

If it was possible to walk into a place, try out a few and see how they fitted (not even worrying about firing them, though working the action once or twice would be good), it'd be a great boon. But until they're deregulated, I don't see that happening in the ROI. Maybe north of the border?

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

And yeah, there's a lot of personal choice in this one - I've seen the Steyr LG100 takedown just drill tens home all day long, but others take one look at it and just don't want to know (worries over the takedown attachment points and concerns over stock shape and size and several other ergonomic worries).

If it was possible to walk into a place, try out a few and see how they fitted (not even worrying about firing them, though working the action once or twice would be good), it'd be a great boon. But until they're deregulated, I don't see that happening in the ROI. Maybe north of the border?

An Irish Frankonia then? In a tent in Munich, I got to try a beautiful 8k Merkel SxS, dry-firing, swinging, mount, balance, for a good ten or fifteen minutes, safety, triggers, the full spectrum of function, and I was left alone to do so. Can you imagine being left to yourself in a tent with a decent car's worth of shotgun here?

Sparks

Can't legally be done here, not really. I mean, you can work within the law to do something similar to it in the context of a club and its members, but it's awkward and not really a fantastic setup for the firearms dealer, who essentially has to keep at least one of each in stock and in use as club firearms. Not great business, given the average annual turnover of ISSF firearms in the state, let alone for ISSF airguns!