Fire Valves

Sparkpea

These are my pet hates. How do people get away with installing a cheap £3 wheel head fire valve on new sites? As far as I know regulations state that it should be a remote acting firevalve (kbb or similar). Kbbs are the only valve covered under the house insurance and worth every bit of £25 or whatever they are. I can't understand how new builds manage to get signed off without them. Just 1 of many shortcuts some installers take to keep their price lower than yours.

I'm a firm believer in doing a job correctly or don't do it at all. I'd have walked off a job today for that reason but the customer agreed with me in the end (different situation tho). Fitting new showers doors, took the old ones off and cleaned the area up. Told him his bottom 2 rolls of tiles where all boast on the block walls. Went to drill my new holes and I could see the tiles springing and grout crumbling so suggested take the tiles off. Thankfully he agreed because I'd not have fitted the doors otherwise - whats the sense? Fit new doors but in 2 months time they need took off again because it needs retiled? Botch job. Thankfully some people have sense. Took off the 2 rows and have left the area to dry. Block wall is soaking! Broke 1 tile taking 12 off and it wasn't even the first tile to get access to, just shows how they where hanging on and no more lol.

DoneDL

You will be lucky to see a KBB on any boiler external or internal for the same reason we have had such crap work done in Ireland, no building control

Buford T Justice

I've never seen one installed. Only the bog standard ones.

Seen one standard one where it was about four feet away from the boiler. Not much use if there's a fire in the boiler.

kscobie

Sooner this is enforced the better, also sick of pricing work, pricing for a kbb firevalve, having the boiler commissioned etc, only to hear your undercut by a cowboy who dosent bother with the above

esox28

well now you've started it off....just after coming home from a warranty call out for one of the main boiler manufacturers, this particular boiler had a leak at the rear connection plumbing fitting fixed leak no bother, but it had a few other issues!! baring in mind this boilers only a few months old so it come under all new regs and oftec requirements. the boiler is a cabin pac model which was installed in a garage with a hole cut in the wall for flue and no seal, and visible staining on internal wall from flue gases also
should be room sealed appliance when installed a garage. soldered fused wheel head fire valve (not surprising). no fused (5a) spur. no boiler passport or missing.

if this was a gas boiler I would have issued a notice of hazard and cut gas supply to boiler and cap it.

what can you do with oil only advise costumer about the issues raised.

Sparkpea

sounds a bit like a diy job, why the heck didnt they just get a boiler house model

JohnnieK

When I started out on my own in Jan 2010 I only ever fitted remote acting fire valves, and that came from working on industrial installations. The only valves we ever fitted where remote acting so I new no differant. I'm not OFTEC registared (due to change soon sitting the course in 2 weeks) so I didn't even know the wheel heads where not allowed any more, it was just force of habbit.

Sparkpea, £25 for one, there €54 down hear in Heatmerchants. We are certainly getting it up the jacksee down here with prices.

JohnnieK

Speaking of standards. Is there an oil tank installed in the country that meets current OFTEC or even Fire standards, Me dont think so:(

Sparkpea

for the life of me, I still can't understand why standard efficiency boilers are still being made when building control up the north wont sign it off so basically if house owner goes to sell their house they need to install a new HE boiler if their standard boiler was installed after sept 2007.

kscobie

JohnnieK wrote: »

When I started out on my own in Jan 2010 I only ever fitted remote acting fire valves, and that came from working on industrial installations. The only valves we ever fitted where remote acting so I new no differant. I'm not OFTEC registared (due to change soon sitting the course in 2 weeks) so I didn't even know the wheel heads where not allowed any more, it was just force of habbit.

Sparkpea, £25 for one, there €54 down hear in Heatmerchants. We are certainly getting it up the jacksee down here with prices.

Its 55 euro for a 6m kkb down in d midlands too

kscobie

Sparkpea wrote: »

for the life of me, I still can't understand why standard efficiency boilers are still being made when building control up the north wont sign it off so basically if house owner goes to sell their house they need to install a new HE boiler if their standard boiler was installed after sept 2007.

Was chattin a rep from a manufacturer in Chadwicks last week, and he said all standard boilers are being stopped this june or july this year.

Sparkpea

kscobie wrote: »

Was chattin a rep from a manufacturer in Chadwicks last week, and he said all standard boilers are being stopped this june or july this year.

thats good news

I will need to check my latest invoice for a kbb because I did a quick search and its coming up teddington kbbs about £50! pretty sure ours were only like £25+vat working out about £30.

Edit: £37 on ebay

Sparkpea

Phones my wholesalers for an uptodate price and it's £25.88+vat at 20% works out about £31.

MiniGolf

Sparkpea wrote: »

Phones my wholesalers for an uptodate price and it's £25.88+vat at 20% works out about £31.

Can you pm the name and number of your wholesaler?? Price is v. good!!

Micky Dolenz

esox28 wrote: »

well now you've started it off....just after coming home from a warranty call out for one of the main boiler manufacturers, this particular boiler had a leak at the rear connection plumbing fitting fixed leak no bother, but it had a few other issues!! baring in mind this boilers only a few months old so it come under all new regs and oftec requirements. the boiler is a cabin pac model which was installed in a garage with a hole cut in the wall for flue and no seal, and visible staining on internal wall from flue gases also
should be room sealed appliance when installed a garage. soldered fused wheel head fire valve (not surprising). no fused (5a) spur. no boiler passport or missing.

if this was a gas boiler I would have issued a notice of hazard and cut gas supply to boiler and cap it.

what can you do with oil only advise costumer about the issues raised.

Why didn't you shut down the installation if it was dangerous?

I have done it a few times and explained to the client that I could not leave an appliance that was immediately dangerous in operation. As the last person to work on an appliance you take a share of responsibility.

Carlow52

JohnnieK wrote: »

Speaking of standards. Is there an oil tank installed in the country that meets current OFTEC or even Fire standards, Me dont think so:(

Would be nice to have a link to what the standards are

Micky Dolenz

Soldered fire valves and standard oil tanks should be withdrawn from the market now. we have fitted a few of the bunded tanks, they could do with reducing the price by a nice bit though.

Sparkpea

will do, closest to the south is prob newry

kscobie

Carlow52 wrote: »

Would be nice to have a link to what the standards are

www.oftec.org, its in oftec book 3

Sparkpea

Carlow52 wrote: »

Would be nice to have a link to what the standards are

regulations for northern ireland

1.8m from dwelling, 750mm from boundary with a 300mm fireproof base overlapping the tank. Tank can be closer to dwelling or boundary if a 4" fire wall is erected.

Bunded tanks must be fit if near a water supply or sewage system, if you live in the country with just fields around you then single skinned tank is fine. You can install a single skinned tank in a housing development if you take enough precautions to protect the water systems if 1000L of oil spilled/leak, this includes building up manholes, gullys etc. you ma be able to do this for yourself but think of your neighbours also.

So pretty much bunded all the way!

Carlow52

Many thanks indeed
I have one that needs replacing hence my ?.

So just to summarize for a rural installation:
fireproof slab under the tank that projects outside the sides of the tank by 300 mm on all 4 sides.

This one is 20 feet from the manhole cover to the well that feeds the house so it needs bunding. It is inches from the house wall so I need a separate 4" fire wall

So I build a block wall on the base that is high enough to catch the oil.
Is there any spec on the inner lining of the wall: does it need to be plastered or tanked?

Sparkpea

sorry I meant to note thats for Northern Ireland but I expect its similar for the South.

I don't know any specifics about the firewall as I knew I wouldn't be using one so didn't query it. I'd say it would need to be the height of the tank at least. When you say its inches away from the house (house or bungalow?) is there eaves etc near it, basically what you have to do is make sure if the oil tank goes on fire then it wont catch fire to anything flammable.

I just priced a bunded tank for a job ive to start next week and its 695mm wide, so I need to make my base at least 1295mm wide (300mm overhang at each side), same for the length.

balcol

I have one of these wheel head firevalves and it's leaking at the spindle. Does it need to be replaced or could I dismantle and repair?

DGOBS

replace, preferably with a remote acting type as discussed on this thread.

balcol

is there much involved to changing valve type, the current valve is situated above the burner. (I'm not a plumber but quite capable)

Sparkpea

once the oil is isolated u should be ok to change, keep a rag and wee dish handy to catch excess oil.

I've started fitting these firevalves can pick them up in my wholesalers now for about £20 all in which is a good bit less than kbb and they are remote
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REMOTE-ACTING-FIRE-VALVE-FOR-OIL-BOILERS-3-0m-x-66C-/251024324447?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item3a7237375f#ht_1433wt_1099