Communication breakdown?

Bluetwo

Sorry mods if this stuff isn't allowed but I didn't see anything in the charter against it. Also I wont be using real names/places etc.

LOTS OF TEXT AHEAD.

Anyways so my mother and I were discussing politics at dinner and it lead to the public sector which somehow lead to discussing the death of her mother back in 2005.

Somewhere along the line there was a communication failure that my mother blames on the medic himself but I had to disagree with her.
It was about 1pm when my mother called into my grans house as she does everyday, but nobody answered so she waited for my brother to walk down from school as he does for lunch with the key, when they got inside they found my grandmother unresponsive on the floor of the kitchen. So naturally 999 was called and an ambulance was requested. Now heres where things get a bit controversial. My mother told the operator "15 main street" and sticks by that she did not say anything different, I don't see why she would either.

The ambulance took 25 mins to get to the house even though the hospital is about 3 miles/5minute drive from her location. When the ambulance did arrive it passed the house at speed to which my brother sprinted after it trying desperately to get its attention, not sure what happened next but in the end they turned and went back to the right address.

Later the ambulance driver apologized and said that he thought the address was at "15 main street drive", down the road. Which is understandable, but theres a catch. The ambulance driver lived on the same street as my grandmother, infact only a few houses down from hers.

I suppose there is 2 topics I want to get your opinion on. First being the response time. I argued that the ambulance service is probably working at full capacity and under pressure at most times so maybe the long call out time is justifiable? My mother would have none of it, a disgrace etc.

Secondly is the mess up in addresses. What system does it go through after the address is given to the 999 operator. Does the Medic get a print out of the call details, location etc or is it said over a radio/phone. Also do EMT's/Paramedics use gps often? I argued that somewhere along the line the driver wasn't informed correctly or was unsure of the exact location of the call. I also secretly argued that my mother would of made a small error under extreme pressure but I dared not argue it with her .

My mother argues that the ambulance driver is totally to blame, and if he had of been doing his job properly he would of gotten there maybe on time things would of had a better outcome and the fact that he knows the area very well doesn't help.

Quiet naturally my mother would argue these things, after all her own mother died that day and it has affected her greatly (and myself I may ad). I just can't agree with the way she blames the driver like that.

Any input or information on this would be appreciated.

coolmoose

Bluetwo wrote: »

I suppose there is 2 topics I want to get your opinion on. First being the response time. I argued that the ambulance service is probably working at full capacity and under pressure at most times so maybe the long call out time is justifiable? My mother would have none of it, a disgrace etc.

Yes this is true, the service is stretched to it's limits in many parts of the country on a daily basis. You can however be assured that if there was a vehicle free to do the call, it would be sent immediately. If there was a 999 call waiting, the next available ambulance would be sent.

Bluetwo wrote: »

Secondly is the mess up in addresses. What system does it go through after the address is given to the 999 operator. Does the Medic get a print out of the call details, location etc or is it said over a radio/phone. Also do EMT's/Paramedics use gps often? I argued that somewhere along the line the driver wasn't informed correctly or was unsure of the exact location of the call. I also secretly argued that my mother would of made a small error under extreme pressure but I dared not argue it with her

Depending on the region it is a phone call to the base, or a print out of what the EMC (call-taker) typed into the system. The EMC (dispatcher) will relay the information to the crew assigned to the call, including directions taken from the caller.

GPS is not provided in the ambulances in the region I am in. We use GPS on our phones at times when needed, but this isn't always reliable either.

Directions sometimes get messed up during the phone call, as people are calling 999 under extreme pressure. Often times we will be told the house is on the left, when it's actually on the right for example.

Also, people may not be aware but we don't know everywhere in our locality, nobody does.

People generally don't make their house obvious either when they call for an ambulance, no lights on, doors closed, nobody waiting to hail down ambulance, no car with hazard warning lights on outside the house etc.

I'm not suggesting this happened with reference to the call you are talking about, merely giving a broader view on the subject.

Bluetwo wrote: »

My mother argues that the ambulance driver is totally to blame, and if he had of been doing his job properly he would of gotten there maybe on time things would of had a better outcome and the fact that he knows the area very well doesn't help.

Maybe. Our job is stressful enough at the best of times, and being unable to find an address only adds to this...we all want to get to calls as quickly as possible when needed to do our job! In general I wouldn't blame any crew for these kind of things as they happen all the time...through no fault of the crew who are trying their very best, generally it's a failure of the system at some point (inadequate directions, out of date mapping, vague details given, EMC unable to understand patient etc.)

Sorry this doesn't really answer your question, but I do sympathise, it's horrible when things work out this way.

MagicSean

It's very hard to know where the error was made. The operator could have called back main street drive and your mother could have said yes without thinking. This happens a lot due to the stress of a situation.

The operator could have written it down badly or confused it with a previous call.

The ambulance driver could have been given the wrong address or misheard it.

Personally I look forward to post codes being introduced. i think they will be a godsend to emergency services, especially if they are supported by a sat nav system in responder vehciles.

paraletic

coolmoose is right.

as mentioned, response times in this country are well down. the ambulance service is stretched so thin that (unfortunatly) a response within half an hour sounds ok to me.
thankfully efforts are being made to reduce the response times for the most serious calls to 8mins (most of the time)

getting the address of a location is hit or miss: your mam might have not been clear enough, but its also very likely that the radio messages weren't clear enough. the crew might have been driving and trying to get directions. the 'driver' who lives on the same street may not have been the one who took down the call details. (or a hundred other reasons)
if all the crew did was drive past the house and take a short while to turn back, that doesn't sound like a reason to blame them.

i'm sorry for your loss and i'm sorry your ma has a bad experience of the service, the ambulance service is constantly reviewing itself and improving standards.

most paramedics and dispatchers really do their best, but with limited resources you simply can't get to all the incidences in good time.

Bluetwo

Thanks for your replies, all.

emptyshed

These folks are under serious pressure going from call to call, and risking their own lives to get through traffic as much as possible.

Losing a loved one is never easy, and many of us play the blame game, unfortunately it doesn't bring anyone back.

At the end of the day death is coming knocking for all of us, and I would guess that in this case it was natural causes.

No ambulance crew goes to work to let people die, the very opposite, in fact there's been so many cases of emergency services getting killed trying to get to or from calls, where they are going to help complete strangers.

Actual Paramedic

Bluetwo wrote: »

The ambulance took 25 mins to get to the house even though the hospital is about 3 miles/5minute drive from her location. When the ambulance did arrive it passed the house at speed to which my brother sprinted after it trying desperately to get its attention, not sure what happened next but in the end they turned and went back to the right address.

Later the ambulance driver apologized and said that he thought the address was at "15 main street drive", down the road. Which is understandable, but theres a catch. The ambulance driver lived on the same street as my grandmother, infact only a few houses down from hers.

I suppose there is 2 topics I want to get your opinion on. First being the response time. I argued that the ambulance service is probably working at full capacity and under pressure at most times so maybe the long call out time is justifiable? My mother would have none of it, a disgrace etc.

Well the ambulance might not be stationed at the hospital you live close to.
The ambulance might not have been on station and could have been a distance away.

The address itself, if it was the same as the "ambulance driver" or we could say paramedic; where they lived then very unlikely they would mix it up. Mistakes do happen with communication as said already between the caller, the EMC, the crew and the way they are delivered (phone, fax, radio)

This incident happened in 2005 so things may/probably have changed since then.

Mr. Bean.

Bluetwo wrote: »

The ambulance driver lived on the same street as my grandmother, infact only a few houses down from hers.

Aren't names forbidden on the radio net?

Actual Paramedic

Mr. Bean. wrote: »

Aren't names forbidden on the radio net?

No. If we are mobile how else are they to tell us where to go?

Mr. Bean.

Actual Paramedic wrote: »

No. If we are mobile how else are they to tell us where to go?

Ah right.... I thought that ambulance crews were only supplied with the address of the incident, the no. of casualties, what happened and their condition. I thought it was a breach of confidentiality to say the name of the casualty on the radio?

Contra Proferentem

Mr. Bean. wrote: »

Ah right.... I thought that ambulance crews were only supplied with the address of the incident, the no. of casualties, what happened and their condition. I thought it was a breach of confidentiality to say the name of the casualty on the radio?

Nope, with a scanner, you get everything. If you get a higher spec one, you can even decode the pager.

paraletic

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

Nope, with a scanner, you get everything. If you get a higher spec one, you can even decode the pager.

why would anyone need a scanner?

wicklaman83

hobby

discus

darren254 wrote: »

hobby

A perverted, voyeuristic and sad hobby.

wicklaman83

discus wrote: »

A perverted, voyeuristic and sad hobby.

Perverted???
voyeuristic???

Ya might want to google the meaning of these words.I can find no connection to a scanning hobby

discus

Oh you wouldn't.

Hooch

darren254 wrote: »

Perverted???
voyeuristic???

Ya might want to google the meaning of these words.I can find no connection to a scanning hobby

discus wrote: »

Oh you wouldn't.

But I would.......I hate when people use words without knowing their full meaning.

Use of a scanner is in no way voyeuristic. While you think it is perverted there are a whole lot of people who listen to scanners just out of interest. (perverted is normally used in the sexual since but is actually a deviation from the group/social norms.......in this case how do you know your not the deviation from the norm??)

bk

This is one of the most important reasons why we need post codes here in Ireland.

There are just too many homes and streets with similar sounding names.

Ideally we should have a post code system that directly translates to GPS coordinates.

How it should work is all emergency service vehicles have GPS and the details of emergency calls location received by text message and directly linked to the GPS to avoid any issues or misunderstanding over voice radio.

Also if the emergency call is placed by mobile, then the post code and address that is sent to the emergency service vehicle should also be automatically sent by SMS to the mobile that made the call.

This all would help reduce situations like this.

alentejo

VHF radio is unsecured and it is a limitation that personnel info can be picked up by third parties. I think the onus is on the respective ambulance service to take all reasonable efforts to ensure that confidential info is kept.

I believe that tetra will solve this issue

coolmoose

Unfortunately, in Ireland, sometimes the quickest way to find an address is to ask a member of the public on the street/man standing outside pub/nosey neighbour/driver of a car where so-and-so's house is...unless you're in the service you would not fully appreciate this fact!

So it becomes an issue of finding the house ASAP by using the name, or taking longer by searching for (normally non-existent) house numbers and names.

Rock - - - - Ambulance crew - - - - - Hard place

999nobody

coolmoose wrote: »

Unfortunately, in Ireland, sometimes the quickest way to find an address is to ask a member of the public on the street/man standing outside pub/nosey neighbour/driver of a car where so-and-so's house is...unless you're in the service you would not fully appreciate this fact!

So it becomes an issue of finding the house ASAP by using the name, or taking longer by searching for (normally non-existent) house numbers and names.

Rock - - - - Ambulance crew - - - - - Hard place

Especially when the dispatch instructions say "General area of xxxxxx".