Question about funerals and heaven

Dan133269

Hello, I would like to ask, in all sincerity, why do you think some religious people behave like it's the end of the world when a loved one dies? My reason for asking is, if you are a Christian, and believe in God and heaven, then when a loved one dies, if he/she has been a good person and has lived a life of faith, then surely it is believed that they will go straight to heaven. Why do some people scream, bawl, shout, faint and even commit suicide upon hearing that the one they love is now in eternal paradise?

I realise not all Christians behave this way, but some do. Why do you think this is? And if anyone here who believes in God and heaven and has acted this way, would you explain why?

Thanks,
Dan.

c-note

Hey Dan
Your attempting to apply logic and reason to what is a faith based system of beliefs.

But as to why people wail/cry etc when a loved one dies... well thats a pretty human thing to do. if you love someone and they were gone you'd be upset. weather they went to jail, or went to live in a 5 star hotel in the Bahamas, or as you say, heaven.
Its a selfish thing (not nescessarily a bad thing), but you're being sorry for YOUR loss. I rarely feel bad for people who die (unless they're young and enthusiastic about being alive) i feel sorry for thoose who are left grieving. and i dont even believe in heaven!

Fanny Cradock

Dan133269 wrote: »

Hello, I would like to ask, in all sincerity, why do you think some religious people behave like it's the end of the world when a loved one dies? My reason for asking is, if you are a Christian, and believe in God and heaven, then when a loved one dies, if he/she has been a good person and has lived a life of faith, then surely it is believed that they will go straight to heaven. Why do some people scream, bawl, shout, faint and even commit suicide upon hearing that the one they love is now in eternal paradise?

I realise not all Christians behave this way, but some do. Why do you think this is? And if anyone here who believes in God and heaven and has acted this way, would you explain why?

Thanks,
Dan.

It's a fair question.

Firstly, heaven is only part of the story. Christianity teaches that there is a physical existence after heaven.

Secondly, in some way shape or form, death is seen as a corruption of the natural order that God intended. Indeed, the shortest verse in the Bible, John 11:35, concerns Jesus' reaction to a friends death.

But aside from these, what is wrong with grieving? If a friend of family member decided to emigrate and found a better life in Canada or wherever I would still be upset at their departure. Is this wrong?

While we might live in hope of heaven and what comes after it, the simple fact is that we all form deep and intimate relationships and when they end (for whatever reason) that is something of a tragedy. It's part of being human.

Dan133269

Thanks for the replies people. I know what you mean Fanny Craddock, it is only natural to be upset. But what I can't understand is people who say they believe in heaven, screaming and crying and saying things like "I'll never see him/her again", "he's been taken away from me forever", things like that. I've seen a few people act like this and then I asked them afterwards did they believe in heaven and they said of course, I just can't seem to square the circle. Do you think some people have difficulty believing there is a heaven?

keano_afc

I've been to a few Christian funerals and they are very different form those in the Catholic Church. The bible teaches us that we can have full assurance of an eternity with God, and this is reflected in the Christian funerals I have been to, which mostly amount to a thanksgiving service for the persons life. What always upseets me about Catholic funerals is the lack of certainty on show, I always heat the priest refer to a "hope that xxxx is in heaven" or "we hope to see xxx again". There's no confidence there. It doesnt have to be that way.

In answer to the OP, its just human nature I guess. When someone dies who you're very close to, even if they are a fellow saint who has passed into eternity, you just miss them being around. But the assurance of seeing them again certainly helps the healing process.

amber2

What a stupid question, you must not have lost anyone close to you. The reason why people cry and bawl as you put it is out of grief at having lost someone close to them. You do not take delighted in the fact that a loved one is in heaven just solace. What makes people cry during grieving is the fact that you will never see or have a conversation with your loved one again, its the end of your relationship with that person all you have is memories which are great but thats all you have. If a death was sudden you never get the opportunity to say all the things you could have said or should have said.

If someone dies of old age then i guess there is nothing more you can ask for from life (although you will still cry and grieve) they have lived a long and happy life and death as we all know is part and parcel of life but its an altogether different story if someone is taken prematurely from us.

Whats to square about the circle what harm is anyone who is grieving doing to you. Believe me anyone who is grieving would give anything to have their old live with their loved one back again so just leave them get on with it.

antiskeptic

Dan133269 wrote: »

I realise not all Christians behave this way, but some do. Why do you think this is? And if anyone here who believes in God and heaven and has acted this way, would you explain why?

There are other flies in the ointment to consider. Is the bereaved person who identifies as a Christian, a Christian?

As you might imagine, what constitutes a Christian is something defined by God and not man. Which permits a situation where there are lots of people who are Christians according to mans definition but who aren't by God's definition. This latter group aren't Christians in fact (even though they think they are) and so can't be expected to possess the same hope that a person who is a Christian has.

From the outside it would be very hard to tell and the reactions of both Christians and non-Christians would be lumped into the one pot.

I think many here (including some of the Roman Catholics) would agree it likely that most Irish Roman Catholics aren't actually God-defined Christians. They are Christian in man-made name only. Which makes it unlikely (in the Irish context) that you've been to all that many funerals where the bereaved are Christians.

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Then there's the problem that a bereaved family containing Christians will likely contain non-Christians too. I'm thinking of my own immediate family where myself and my mother are Christians and my two sisters aren't (they'd be very lapsed Catholics). When my dad died a few years ago we were all upset but it was my sisters who suffered utter anguish whereas my mother and myself didn't. I don't know where my dad is but I can't suffer the same anguish as my sisters because

1) I know he exists and isn't gone/gone in the sense they suffer

2) He might well have repented and might well be 'in heaven' and so there is the possibility I'll see him again in glory. Where there's possibility there cannot be absolute anguish.

You probably wouldn't have been able to discern a difference on the day of his funeral where we were all upset. But you would have had you been around us both before and after he died.

Fanny Cradock

Indeed, there is more to being a Christian than saying you are a Christian.

prinz

People grieve differently. There's no real explanation to it. No matter how strong your faith is we are human after all, and no matter how much faith you have in whatever follows death it is natural to be upset about loss and apprehensive about facing your own mortality. Even Jesus experienced some doubt and fear facing his own death. No matter how Christian and faithful you are it is natural to mourn and experience anger at death. I have gotten more visually upset about relatively trivial things than I have about the deaths of grandparents. That's not to say I cared any less about my grandparents. You don't need to be screaming and bawling and gnashing your teeth to be extremely affected by loss and vice versa.

daithiocondun

I sometimes consider this myself. It is, I suppose, a little odd why a seemingly devout Christian might have a severe reaction to the death of someone close to them. But there are a number of very valid reasons.

Firstly, their faith may be in doubt and they may not be 100% sure if they will ever see the other person again - I'm sure this is the case for many "devout" Christians.

Secondly, even if the above is not the case, Christians are not privvy to what heaven will be like. We can't be sure in what state or manner we will "meet" each other again. I'm sure any serious person would doubt that in heaven we will encounter each other on the clouds and shake hands. Therefore, death means the end of a relationship as we know it. We won't see, talk, laugh, go to the pub, go on holiday etc. with that person ever again. In other words, they are lost to us as we know it as humans.

Thirdly, as was brought up before by the others, it's natural to grieve for someone in their absence. It's natural to miss the absence of a loved one even for a brief spell. You can miss your best friend when they go away for a week or two. You might even cry if you are very close. When people emmigrate, for example, people often go through grief and mourning akin to the death of a loved one. I know that when my brother went to Australia 2 years ago, my mother cried every day for weeks and it took about 6 months before she REALLY came to terms with it. Her son didn't die, but they were separated. Imagine the grief if he said he would never come back again. It would be like a death and she would react accordingly, even if she was certain they would "meet" in heaven. The human element of physical contact which is biologically so strong, it broken.

I hope this helps.

Kelda09

Although I believe there is a heaven (Im not 100% sure of what form it takes tho) and I have lost both friends and family members there have been different reactions and grief to them.

when I lost friends I have grieved, I have cried and I have been bloody, bloody angry, I have done this as I have to deal with the fact that as a mid 20's person I will (hopefully!) have to wait at least another 60 years to see those friends again, I cant ring them up for a chat, I cant get a massive bear hug when Im sad or worried or scared, I didnt get to say everything I wanted to say, and in some cases I didnt get to say goodbye at all. I grieve for my own selfish reasons, and my loss and the thought of the deceased persons family dealing with the aftermath. I have no doubt that my friends will be there when I die, and that they are far better where they are now and that they are happy, but when they passed away, it boiled down to a basic, plain and simple emotion.. I missed my friends and sometimes, when your at a funeral, it's just not enough to think "ah well, it;s all ok, sure ill see them in 60 odd years." I don't mean that to sound flippant it's just an example, but hopefully it'll show where Im coming from.

kumate_champ07

amber2 wrote: »

What a stupid question, you must not have lost anyone close to you. The reason why people cry and bawl as you put it is out of grief at having lost someone close to them. You do not take delighted in the fact that a loved one is in heaven just solace. What makes people cry during grieving is the fact that you will never see or have a conversation with your loved one again, its the end of your relationship with that person all you have is memories which are great but thats all you have. If a death was sudden you never get the opportunity to say all the things you could have said or should have said.

If someone dies of old age then i guess there is nothing more you can ask for from life (although you will still cry and grieve) they have lived a long and happy life and death as we all know is part and parcel of life but its an altogether different story if someone is taken prematurely from us.

Whats to square about the circle what harm is anyone who is grieving doing to you. Believe me anyone who is grieving would give anything to have their old live with their loved one back again so just leave them get on with it.

wont you see them in heaven?


it's not a stupid question by the way

amber2

To me it is as my brother was killed in a road traffic accident and the fact that he may or may not be in heaven or the fact that I will see him again in heaven does not help me in grieving for him. And yes i do cry and bawl as it was put earlier in this post which i might add incenses me, try and show some sort of empathy. What i would like is for him to be with his family here and now. People who have not gone the type of devastation a sudden death has on a family have no idea what they are talking about until they have the misfortune of going through it themselves. It totally rips a family apart and in a split second life will never be the same again regardless of "seeing them again in heaven".

Kelda09 I totally agree its not at all good enough to say oh well ill see him again in 60 years i thought id see him grow old with me and i miss him every day and will miss him every single day of my life, he was the best. I thought he would always be there for me and someone i could depend and now he is gone. Hope this shows you a little bit of where im coming from (not a nice place) believe me as i said i would give anything to have our old live back regardless of heaven. As said earlier dont apply logic to it just leave people alone to deal with their loss in their own way that all they want. So thats my rant over with im done now.

Dan133269

antiskeptic wrote: »

As you might imagine, what constitutes a Christian is something defined by God and not man. Which permits a situation where there are lots of people who are Christians according to mans definition but who aren't by God's definition. This latter group aren't Christians in fact (even though they think they are) and so can't be expected to possess the same hope that a person who is a Christian has.

What is God's definition of Christian?

antiskeptic wrote: »

I think many here (including some of the Roman Catholics) would agree it likely that most Irish Roman Catholics aren't actually God-defined Christians. They are Christian in man-made name only. Which makes it unlikely (in the Irish context) that you've been to all that many funerals where the bereaved are Christians.

I have only ever been to RC funerals.


Amber, sorry to hear about the loss of your brother. How long ago was it if you don't mind me asking.

I think it's unfair to say it is a stupid question that I asked. I wasn't trying to incense you at all, or anyone for that matter, I was just asking a fair question based on observation. I certainly am leaving people alone to deal with their loss, I just threw this question out there to see what people's reactions are. I can understand what you're saying about wanting to grow old with your brother, but surely if the two of you are going to spend eternity together, then that is the most important thing is it not? Do you believe in heaven Amber?

Rev Hellfire

Dan133269 wrote: »

Why do some people scream, bawl, shout, faint and even commit suicide upon hearing that the one they love is now in eternal paradise?

Because people are very much of the now, people typically don't weep for the individual who has gone but rather for the loss they themselves have just experienced.

Dan133269 wrote: »

And if anyone here who believes in God and heaven and has acted this way, would you explain why?

Because there's no such thing as a certainty in life and that includes the idea that you'll be attending such a place as heaven. Everyone has doubts on that score.

antiskeptic

Dan133269 wrote: »

What is God's definition of Christian?

It would take the topic a ways off to go there. Suffice to say, the problem I outlined could be expected to exist in the case there is a God, to whit: how do you know you're looking at Christians

I have only ever been to RC funerals.

I've been to a fair few too and they've been pretty dismal affairs. It's not that Christian funerals (in the sense I'd define Christian) are joyous affairs but they certainly don't end in hopelessness that dogs unbelievers funerals (whether Catholic or otherwise)

Seaneh

I'm just going to throw this out there.

Even Jesus mourned when he was told that Lazarus had died.

John 11:35, shortest verse in the bible:

Jesus Wept.


Mourning is natural and it's healthy and people need to process through a loss emotionally, if you don't you never really move past it and it will be there, forever, holding you back in some way.

Fanny Cradock

See post 3

Seaneh

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

See post 3

Damn you *shakes fist*.

I really need to not skim...