DIY Installs

Villain

DIY People installing Sky or other Satellite systems seems to annoy some people on here. It’s a bit odd really as I work in I.T. and most people in my profession don’t have any problem with people installing and repairing their own PC and Laptops or setting up home networks.

Installing a satellite system is pretty simple and doesn’t require any special training or expensive equipment. I don’t understand why some installers take such offence at people doing it themselves.

I’m not saying however that every single person can install a Satellite system the same way as every single person can’t setup a home network or PC but I wouldn’t have any issue with anyone trying to do it rather than saying call a qualified Microsoft Engineer or a CCNA Qualified Network Engineer.

I’m just wondering why is there such a bad feeling towards people encouraging DIY installs?

St Senan

Villain wrote: »

DIY People installing Sky or other Satellite systems seems to annoy some people on here. It’s a bit odd really as I work in I.T. and most people in my profession don’t have any problem with people installing and repairing their own PC and Laptops or setting up home networks.

Installing a satellite system is pretty simple and doesn’t require any special training or expensive equipment. I don’t understand why some installers take such offence at people doing it themselves.

I’m not saying however that every single person can install a Satellite system the same way as every single person can’t setup a home network or PC but I wouldn’t have any issue with anyone trying to do it rather than saying call a qualified Microsoft Engineer or a CCNA Qualified Network Engineer.

I’m just wondering why is there such a bad feeling towards people encouraging DIY installs?

This question has had many an Answer and many a Thread locked. I am an Aerial rigger/Dish installer who at this moment is sitting with a laptop replying to your Question. I Pay for Advertising, Tax, PL insurance and also use top of the range equipment to carry out installs. The problem in this business at the moment is that people who carry out DIY installs seem to think that this is easy and some of these people see that there is money to be made from this. {Fair Enough if they pay there way}. So what is happening then is that these DIYer's will buy a cheap DIY kit for €50-€70 http://www.ross.co.uk/satellite-tv/satellite-kit From Aldi, Lidl, B&Q, Local Markets and many of the Electrical shops and sell and install it for €150 and pay nothing in TAX. These guys don't or wouldn't even know what the words BER or SKEW mean.
So now you have guys like me supplying and installing Freesat http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Logo_freesat.png systems for €230 been undercut in the business. Also what is happening is that some of these DIYer's who think that this is not Rocket Science wont explain to the people that are paying him €150 that this FTA kit will need retuning regularly.
So in the long run when this cheap FTA kit Packs in and the DIYer cant be traced the customer is going to reckon that what he bought was a Pig in the Poke and he is going to tell his neighbours and friends not to think about buying a once off payment satellite system. which is what's happening NOW.

Villain

scaller wrote: »

This question has had many an Answer and many a Thread locked. I am an Aerial rigger/Dish installer who at this moment is sitting on a laptop replying to your Question. I Pay for advertising, tax, PL insurance and also use top of the range equipment to carry out installs. The problem in this business at the moment is that people who carry out DIY installs seem to think that this is easy and some of these people see that there is money to be made from this. Fair Enough if they pay there way. So what is happening then is that these DIYer's will buy a cheap DIY kit for €50 and sell and install it for €150 and pay nothing in TAX. So now you have guys like me supplying and installing Freesat systems for €230 been undercut in the busniess. Also what is happening is that some of these DIYer's who think that this is not Rocket Sceince wont explain to the people that are paying him €150 that this FTA kit will need retuning regulary.
So in the long run when this cheap FTA kit Packs in and the DIYer cant be traced the customer is going to reckon that what he bought was a Pig in the Poke and he is going to tell his neighbours and friends not to think about buying a once off payment satellite system.

Well thats a different scenario and more to do with the black market issues, which by the way I totally agree with you on.

My point is more about people wanting to do their own install or help a relative or friend I don't understand the bad feeling towards people wanting to do these installs for themselve. I mean did you go and get a qualified Microsoft Engineer to setup and configure your laptop?

Cantona's Collars

If it's so simple read this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056174432 .Not as simple as it sounds.I wouldn't want a roofer putting up my dish just because he has ladders.People on here have no problem with somebody putting in their own system and coming online to ask advice,it's the chancers that are the problem-installing cheap rubbish with no comeback.
I recently had to sort a problem for a lady who was charged €150 for someone to simply remove her Skybox and swap it for a cheap generic FTA box.I retuned the box and informed her that the Skybox would pick up the same channels without a card,needless to say she wasn't happy.Ended up putting the Skybox back in as she hated the FTA one.
Its things like this that piss the good guys off,not someone trying to put in their own system.

watty

Villain wrote: »

DIY People installing Sky or other Satellite systems seems to annoy some people on here. I
I’m just wondering why is there such a bad feeling towards people encouraging DIY installs?

I don't think there is.

But there has always plenty of patient support by expert professionals here of people who really want to have a go themselves.

Someone can go to a website and figure how to wire a Cat5e Cable RJ45 plugs. Or to install openWRT on a Router or even recycle an old PC as CentOS server running firewall/Router/SIP but that doesn't mean that next week they should be installing structured cabling for a School or Small Business or selling Soft PABXes they build themselves. Not everyone can DIY anyway, and not in all fields.

Some people after DIY of one job like it and learn more and eventually learn enough to be good at it and maybe do it as the day job. Other people might simply have it as a hobby.

I've had official and professional training and experience in Comms, Telecomms, Network systems, Electronics and IT generally. I did 4 x MS exams without hardly blinking. I know guys that are MCP that I wouldn't trust to wire a cable, install XP or add a server to a Domain as a backup for the DC. In my opinion the MS stuff doesn't ever qualify someone as an Engineer. IT Technician following Monkey scripts. But there are plenty of real Engineers that have the MS exams too. The MS exams are better than nothing.

Most "Sky" subcontract installers know less than a good hobbyist and really just know pointy end of drill. Unlike UK and most other countries there has not until recently been a Professional Association for standards in Aerial and Satellite Dish install. ISAA is trying to remedy this.

There are many aspects to Satellite install that the beginner/DIY/Hobbyist or poorer kind of Sky Installer is unaware of.

There has always been loads of help here for folks wanting to DIY for themselves or the Installer that wants to learn. Not much sympathy for the idea that anyone can do it for general public without proper training and equipment.

AstralTV

"Installing a satellite system is pretty simple and doesn’t require any special training or expensive equipment. I don’t understand why some installers take such offence at people doing it themselves."


If the above was true, then there would be nobody asking for advice on this forum,

And as advice is given freely by many people on the forum I fail to see your problem.

Tony

I've no problem at all with individuals doing if for themselves or as favours for friends neighbours etc. It would be strange if I did as I sell DIY kits and have made a video showing how to do it.

I think the bad feeling is towards the black market operators but If I understand you correctly you are reffering to true DIY individuas and i'm not sure there really is bad feeling towards those guys on here.

Villain wrote: »

Well thats a different scenario and more to do with the black market issues, which by the way I totally agree with you on.

My point is more about people wanting to do their own install or help a relative or friend I don't understand the bad feeling towards people wanting to do these installs for themselve. I mean did you go and get a qualified Microsoft Engineer to setup and configure your laptop?

Villain

Just to say I'm not saying everyone has a problem with people doing DIY installs, I just got a vibe from a few threads over time that people were suggesting that you needed to be an expert to install these systems and when some people suggested otherwise people got cheesed off.

I opened this thread as another thread was going off topic onto this discussion.

AstralTV, I'm not saying its so simple that everyone can do but certainly anyone who takes an interest and has basics can do it, the same way an awful lot of people can setup home networks and build PC's etc.

Watty I actually don't have any MCP's but I have worked with people who have all of them and worked under me, bit likewise I have worked under people who have less qualifications than me but knew far more.

I appreciate that a lot of experts here give over an awful lot of time to "Help" people and I don't mean to ignore or not appreciate that.

Tony

I think sometimes the bad feeling can also be generated by some guys posting here looking for instant answers without doing any reading at all. You may often see a comment such as " I cant be bothered trawling through through the thread ......" etc .

In the main though I think guys are pretty helpful here.

@ Villian perhaps you could give an example as to where you think this "bad feeling" has happened. I'm sure we've all had bad days where the odd harsh comment might slip out

Villain wrote: »

Just to say I'm not saying everyone has a problem with people doing DIY installs, I just got a vibe from a few threads over time that people were suggesting that you needed to be an expert to install these systems and when some people suggested otherwise people got cheesed off.

St Senan

Tony wrote: »

I think sometimes the bad feeling can also be generated by some guys posting here looking for instant answers without doing any reading at all. You may often see a comment such as " I cant be bothered trawling through through the thread ......" etc .

That's exactly what is happening here a lot. Someone will buy a DIY kit try and install it Fail at it then come on here ask for help. They will say that they have the dish set up properly and all they are receiving is German TV instead of English TV and then blame the Receiver or LNB with out doing any reading or looking at other post's. Tony i think the Mods should use your Video as a locked sticky with the title This is How to set up a Dish to receive Astra 28.2

Tony

scaller wrote: »

Tony i think the Mods should use your Video as a locked sticky with the title This is How to set up a Dish to receive Astra 28.2

Thanks for the kind words but not sure that would be fair on other retailers to have it on a locked thread as it might be seen as advertising.

Cantona's Collars

scaller wrote: »

That's exactly what is happening here a lot. Someone will buy a DIY kit try and install it Fail at it then come on here ask for help. They will say that they have the dish set up properly and all they are receiving is German TV instead of English TV and then blame the Receiver or LNB with out doing any reading or looking at other post's. Tony i think the Mods should use your Video as a locked sticky with the title This is How to set up a Dish to receive Astra 28.2

There is a FAQ sticky but I get the feeling a lot of people don't use it as we get a huge amount of similar threads asking questions that have been answered numerous times.The 'I can only get German TV' question pops up a lot.Maybe a sticky on how to set up a diy system would be a help with all the info there it would stop the forum being clogged with the same threads.
Maybe the guy I met who claimed he was an installer while pointing a dish the opposite direction of where it was meant to be facing could read it.:)

watty

This why in the "old days" the Moderators at the time set up a Wiki. (It's still there, but closed to posts.). The Wiki content was moved to Techtir, set up by four ex mods of ICDG forums which originally wasn't even on boards, and later just hosted here. I forget when or why the ICDG forums subsummed by boards entirely.

See http://www.techtir.ie/articles/howto

We have been meaning to update the satellite section, maybe include satellite.ie video and have step by step photos, but the "gang of four" has been busy and though many of the Boards/Wiki folk and most ISAA installers and other Installers are signed up, I guess people are busy. It's a far bit of work to do it "properly".

The idea was that rather than do the same answers over and over a wiki link would do as "stickies" don't work well here, due to fact that after a while only the Moderator can edit and also that formatting is limited. The Wiki was awkward and had security issues, so we tried a customised version of the SW used for Boards with an Articles Plug in. It was very awkward, so last April 2010 we switched to Drupal. It has great Article / Book support, good blogging and basic forums (not as good as the SW used here for Forums).

PressTheButton

scaller wrote: »

... DIYer's who think that this is not Rocket Science.

Just spotted on digg - thought you'd enjoy.