who can microchip in ROI

Ailishcrehan

Just wondering if anyone knows whether or not, Vets are the only people who are allowed to microchip? I have heard that the rules have changed allowing people to implant chips in animals once they have been trained to do so. I cannot seem to find evidence to support or deny this so just asking if anyone knows where the law stands on this.
Thanks!

ISDW

Ailishcrehan wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone knows whether or not, Vets are the only people who are allowed to microchip? I have heard that the rules have changed allowing people to implant chips in animals once they have been trained to do so. I cannot seem to find evidence to support or deny this so just asking if anyone knows where the law stands on this.
Thanks!

Yes, people who have been trained can do this, some rescues do their own microchipping.

ToniTuddle

Could that not somehow end up being abused in some way?
Not saying it would but just wondering if that would be possible.

Bog Bunny

Further to that question (which I cannot answer) what is the best way to ensure after microchipping that you can be identified as rightful owner when your dog is lost or stolen? As far as I know the IKC for instance does not give out any information, reason data protection!
I've witnessed a few cases where a pedigree stray was scanned at my vet's, but the vet did not get any info from the IKC although it is in their register. What good is that then?

TooManyDogs

Bog Bunny wrote: »

Further to that question (which I cannot answer) what is the best way to ensure after microchipping that you can be identified as rightful owner when your dog is lost or stolen? As far as I know the IKC for instance does not give out any information, reason data protection!
I've witnessed a few cases where a pedigree stray was scanned at my vet's, but the vet did not get any info from the IKC although it is in their register. What good is that then?

That's why I also registered my dogs chips with www.fido.ie because they do give owner details to rescues. We had a dog in with an IKC registered chip and they refused to give us the information but promised to ring the owner them selves. When we rang back later in the day we were told they couldn't get an answer to the phone so they would write to them!!! I'd be seriously if some woman in an office only tried to ring me once about my missing dog and then it took a week for a letter to get out to me cos I couldnt answer the phone. I'd be sick with worry!

ToniTuddle

Ok well excuse my ignorance on this but let's say I know how to microchip and such....is it possible then to steal a dog I like and microchip it with my details, so even if the owner came along some day and recognised the dog....it would have my details! Therefore owner would be screwed?

Wisco

Actually, what veterinary Ireland says is that only vets and veterinary nurses registered with the veterinary council are allowed to microchip animals. I know there is a mobile grooming service that advertises microchipping, but I believe this will be investigated shortly.
Having said that, I know a lot of breeders do their own chips, and I doubt they'll be prosecuted/investigated.
There was a 'training' course planned last year for laypeople to learn to microchip, but it was cancelled after the vet council said it wasn't legal.
I would love to see all dogs microchipped, and having only vets and nurses be allowed to do it limits how many will be done. On the other hand, if breeders are using chips that have limited databases, etc, they are useless.
In my experience, there has not been any problems getting info from the IKC to a vet for stray dogs- the vet clinic just has to be registered with the IKC to access their database.

portgirl123

the groomer where i go went on a course and now has a cert to chip. she is a ex vet nurse. she reg with ani-mark.

Wisco

According to vet council she still has to be a registered VN to legally be allowed to chip as these certs from the IKC are not valid in the vet council's view.

Ailishcrehan

I spoke to a vet nurse this morning and she said that she has a letter from the veterinary council of Ireland which states that only a vet or a trained vet nurse can microchip and nobody else is allowed to. I am involved with a rescue group and if we get a dog in that is chipped we can ring Animark or FIDO to get the owners name and number. Not sure if this is exclusive to rescue groups but it seemed very easy to get owners number (thank god).

Bog Bunny

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Ok well excuse my ignorance on this but let's say I know how to microchip and such....is it possible then to steal a dog I like and microchip it with my details, so even if the owner came along some day and recognised the dog....it would have my details! Therefore owner would be screwed?

Unless you cut out the previous chip <Yikes!> it would have the previous owner's details as well. That would and should make anybody suspicious, don't you think?

Bog Bunny

Wisco wrote: »

According to vet council she still has to be a registered VN to legally be allowed to chip as these certs from the IKC are not valid in the vet council's view.

It is my understanding that it is a company that supplies the chips and chip sets to the vets. The numbers are random but the country code (and perhaps a code for the individual vet?) are included. So it is really a matter of the people at source to regulate who is allowed to have access to the product.
Just as the public has no over-the-counter access to antibiotics or prescription medication, the chips-sets should only be supplid to accredited persons.
This would go without saying if (god help us) they'd ever consider implanting chips into humans. But an animal is, under the law, still only considered a thing, like a car, property and so on, and the owner can do what he pleases with his possession....
I am not into anthropomophising, but respect for every sentient being should be the common denominator.
Inserting a chip with these large gauge needles is inflicting pain. When this is so, it should be left to the professionals to do it properly wiht the least amount of pain for the animal.
Another good reason is that if people begin to self-administer they do not have a come-back if anything goes wrong. JMO.

ToniTuddle

Bog Bunny wrote: »

Unless you cut out the previous chip <Yikes!> it would have the previous owner's details as well. That would and should make anybody suspicious, don't you think?

Yeah that would be but if the dog never had a microchip in the first place I mean?

ISDW

Bog Bunny wrote: »

It is my understanding that it is a company that supplies the chips and chip sets to the vets. The numbers are random but the country code (and perhaps a code for the individual vet?) are included. So it is really a matter of the people at source to regulate who is allowed to have access to the product.
Just as the public has no over-the-counter access to antibiotics or prescription medication, the chips-sets should only be supplid to accredited persons.
This would go without saying if (god help us) they'd ever consider implanting chips into humans. But an animal is, under the law, still only considered a thing, like a car, property and so on, and the owner can do what he pleases with his possession....
I am not into anthropomophising, but respect for every sentient being should be the common denominator.
Inserting a chip with these large gauge needles is inflicting pain. When this is so, it should be left to the professionals to do it properly wiht the least amount of pain for the animal.
Another good reason is that if people begin to self-administer they do not have a come-back if anything goes wrong. JMO.

I don't think it will ever get to the point where it is self-administering, only people who have been trained by the microchip company can do it.

Which I think probably also answers your question ToniTuddle, if there was a dispute, the person who stole the dog and inserted the new microchip would have to be trained by the microchip company and I think questions would be asked as to how they got this dog. Also of course, the date of registration would be on record, so it could be seen when the chip was implanted, and if it was after the original owner had the dog, theft and fraud would be apparent. You'd like to think anyway:D

Wisco

Yes, the producers of chips don't sell to everyone, so technically anyone who has a chip and implanter can do it.
But if you advertise that you provide a service to chip dogs/cats and are not a registered VN or vet, the Vet Council may come knocking at your door. This is a relatively new change as far as I'm aware, but they define microchipping as an 'act of surgery' therefore only vets and registered VNs are legally allowed to do it.
I know people will argue this, but as I say, it's a new thing from the council.

portgirl123

it was the chip company that supplied the equipment to my groomer

Honey-ec

Wisco wrote: »

Yes, the producers of chips don't sell to everyone, so technically anyone who has a chip and implanter can do it.
But if you advertise that you provide a service to chip dogs/cats and are not a registered VN or vet, the Vet Council may come knocking at your door. This is a relatively new change as far as I'm aware, but they define microchipping as an 'act of surgery' therefore only vets and registered VNs are legally allowed to do it.
I know people will argue this, but as I say, it's a new thing from the council.

Is there any actual legislation in place to back it up, though? Just wondering, not having a go at anyone.

Bog Bunny

Wisco wrote: »

Yes, the producers of chips don't sell to everyone, so technically anyone who has a chip and implanter can do it.
But if you advertise that you provide a service to chip dogs/cats and are not a registered VN or vet, the Vet Council may come knocking at your door.
.

Now this would open a whole new can of worms. How can an industrial regulating body, such as the veterinary council, have any legislative or regulating, binding authority over people who are not members of this particular body?
For example; could the IKC (who have a licensing system for any events run by their affiliated clubs) have any say if I run a private show with classes, breeds, even phantasy titles Grand Show Champion, of which they don't approve?
Unless there is a general law that prohibits an unqualified person to persue a certain activity (like quacks practicing medicine and /or calling themselves M.D. or Dr. or using titles that are protected by law or trade regulations) anybody can call themselves 'Microchippeur' for instance. Anybody can call themselves 'plumber' or 'electrician' or 'life coach' or whatever you are having yourself . That is actually both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on where one stands.
It's up to the public who want to avail of these services to separate the chaff from the wheat then.

I would want my dog to be microchipped by a vet, not by somebody who has learnt to perform 'surgery' in one weekend.

suziwalsh

Micro-chipping is not what Id call surgery....once someone has been trained to do so I have no issue with a non-vet chipping an animal.

It is no different to tagging an animal etc......

Vaccinating I would consider different......however I had a diabetic dog for years whom we injected every day with insulin.

I don't believe you need a degree in veterinary medicine for the basics to be honest.....once you are shown how and you are a compedent person. In fact if you are just doing a small simple procedure like chipping repeatly you whould probably become more experienced then a vet.....

Bog Bunny

I think in the end it all comes down to whose qualification and experience you can trust. There are degree'd professionals who are very poor performers in their field, and there are certainly non-degree'd people who excel because they have not only the know-how but also the experience and skills.

Like everybody who has spent nearly a whole life with dogs, I do a lot of things for my dogs other people would visit the vet for, like taking out stitches after an op, administering sc antibiotic injections, cleaning ears, cutting nails, treating wounds, changing bandages, inserting a stomach tube in a newborn pup or inserting a catheter in a male (but not in a female, too risky for my liking). My vets are okay with this, they trust me by now. If my friends ask me to help them and I feel confident and experienced enough to do that particular task, I'd do them the favor. If not, I refer them to their vet. But I would not solicit my 'services' and I would certainly not charge money.

What does it cost now to have a dog chipped (a) at the vet's, (b) at the groomer's or another 'lay' person?

suziwalsh

Pretty confident that vets cost vary hugely....betwn €35-€65 for micro-chipping and some charge a consultation over that fee also.

I do not know about groomers or vets as have only dealt with people micro-chipping for an organisation or rescue in which their fee is usually free.

With breeders guessing its included in the fee for pups.

I know depending on the make of chips and the quantity purchased....it normally costs between €5-10 per chip (inc reg fee)

But to be honest once someone has gone to the trouble of getting a cert then why not charge for the services....as it cost them the time and money to qualify to begin with

Bog Bunny

suziwalsh wrote: »

Pretty confident that vets cost vary hugely....betwn €35-€65 for micro-chipping and some charge a consultation over that fee also.

I do not know about groomers or vets as have only dealt with people micro-chipping for an organisation or rescue in which their fee is usually free.

With breeders guessing its included in the fee for pups.

I know depending on the make of chips and the quantity purchased....it normally costs between €5-10 per chip (inc reg fee)

But to be honest once someone has gone to the trouble of getting a cert then why not charge for the services....as it cost them the time and money to qualify to begin with

Thanks for this info. I don't dispute your last point that a service charge should be asked.

Is it free to register a dog with the various databases? Which one would be the best?

suziwalsh

In my opinion www.fido.ie in Ireland and if you have bought a fido chip its free and if not its €10 I think...or could be €5.....will have to check that one

Discodog

Any pronouncements from the VCI are specific to their members & do not make law. So the VCI would not be able to stop a lay person from microchipping.

It is illegal for a lay person to operate on an animal however the following is excluded:

"the making of injections or extractions by means of a hollow needle"

So under law anyone can microchip.

Bog Bunny

So that clarifies it.
The only questionable point is definition of a "Hollow needle" - is that the same size as a piece of string?

"Extraction by means of a hollow needle" could just give a weirdo a legal justification for performing his own C-section <Yikes>!
Don't scuff - people have been known to put their dogs or cats in the microwave or washing machine. There is no limit to human stupidity nor ignorance or cruelty.

hpsheba

I would think that the safest thing to do is ask whoever is doing micro chipping for proof that they have been trained, such as their certificate. If they can not produce that do not let them micro chip your dog/pet . Also ensure that YOU register the dogs details with the database unless you have been told otherwise, again I would always check just to make sure.

mymo

I have two IKC reg dogs, and both breeders advised me to change the dogs into my name immediatly with FIDO.ie, the leaflet came with the dogs, they had registered them to their own names and gave me a code to change them over to my name.
Both said they put the chip in their name due to the number of people not registering the chips with Fido or other companies.
Its completely free and you can put other details(like medical conditions or medications) on the online form.

My vet does chipping, he charges €35, I have no problem with a rescue chipping, but don't think just anyone should be allowed to do it.