How do you decide how to vote?

geeky

Straightforward question, but genuinely curious on this. I've recently moved constituency so don't have personal loyalties to any candidate, and can find something that peeves me off with just about every party (that old line about elections being a choice of the least bad option seems strangely apt).

So this time out, I've gone with a 'first principles' approach. In the last week, I've put together a little sheet of the issues that matter to me and what I want to see done about them. I also assign a 'value' to each reflecting its importance. For example, insisting that senior bondholders take a loss on banking debts and generally rowing back on Irish policy towards the banks is worth 100 points, legalising cannibis is worth five. Quite by accident, all the issues add up to 500 points.

The next step is to read party manifestoes and see how close each party is to my position on each issue (FF, for example, are getting very little of those 100 points for the banking debts). This gives me a total score for each party. I'm asking every candidate who calls to the door whether they differ from their party line on any issue of importance, what their biggest priorities are, what they're prepared to break the whip on, etc. If they don't call, I'm sending them an email in the final week of the campaign. This then gives me candidate-specific modifiers. The candidates will get my vote based on their score in my personal table.

It's worth noting that several people think I am, frankly, mental to be doing this. But as I see it, this could be the most important election in my lifetime, and I want to make the best decision possible. I really can't think of a better way.

So, how will you decide? Do feel free to use my method if you have a few hours to spare!

Zubeneschamali

geeky wrote: »

Straightforward question, but genuinely curious on this.

This will be my 8th General Election. I always vote for whoever might help keep FF from winning seats: FG, Labour, the Green Party and even the PDs.

Unfortunately, I have been very unsuccessful over the years, as you can tell from the state of the country.

Senna

At the moment i only know who i wont be voting for. I'll wait for the debates to see the "bullsh1t" behind the manifestos.

Max Power1

I will avoid FF, the greens, labour, and any independants. Then take my pick of whats left.

dsmythy

No to FF or the Greens and I'm not a left leaning voter, so leaves me kind of lacking options.

Buceph

You have an appropriate name OP.

It's actually quite nice to see such a rigorous approach to it all. Keep the thread updated with what your thought process is as the campaign progresses.

PeterIanStaker

I'll avoid FF, Greens, SF/IRA, People Before Profit, and Independents.

Not gone on FG or Labour, so I'm kind of fecked . . .

geeky

Buceph wrote: »

You have an appropriate name OP.

It's actually quite nice to see such a rigorous approach to it all. Keep the thread updated with what your thought process is as the campaign progresses.

I'll take that as a compliment - I hear we're cool these days :pac:

Yeah, I'll post the final table I come up with once the manifestoes are out!

Lawrence1895

I would prefer checking the party's manifesto first before I make any decision. But I know voters, who prefer casting their vote, because the local candidate has good abilities in canvassing.

Pete_Cavan

geeky wrote: »

Straightforward question, but genuinely curious on this. I've recently moved constituency so don't have personal loyalties to any candidate, and can find something that peeves me off with just about every party (that old line about elections being a choice of the least bad option seems strangely apt).

So this time out, I've gone with a 'first principles' approach. In the last week, I've put together a little sheet of the issues that matter to me and what I want to see done about them. I also assign a 'value' to each reflecting its importance. For example, insisting that senior bondholders take a loss on banking debts and generally rowing back on Irish policy towards the banks is worth 100 points, legalising cannibis is worth five. Quite by accident, all the issues add up to 500 points.

The next step is to read party manifestoes and see how close each party is to my position on each issue (FF, for example, are getting very little of those 100 points for the banking debts). This gives me a total score for each party. I'm asking every candidate who calls to the door whether they differ from their party line on any issue of importance, what their biggest priorities are, what they're prepared to break the whip on, etc. If they don't call, I'm sending them an email in the final week of the campaign. This then gives me candidate-specific modifiers. The candidates will get my vote based on their score in my personal table.

It's worth noting that several people think I am, frankly, mental to be doing this. But as I see it, this could be the most important election in my lifetime, and I want to make the best decision possible. I really can't think of a better way.

So, how will you decide? Do feel free to use my method if you have a few hours to spare!

Fair play OP, a weighting and rating system is a good way of deciding who to vote for. The only problem I see with your approach is the part I have highlighted in bold. No matter what the candidates tell you now they will always go with the patry whip (if they didnt want to be tied by it they would run as an independent). Better off going based on party policy IMO, that is what they will go with regardless of what one party member tells you.

Senna wrote: »

At the moment i only know who i wont be voting for. I'll wait for the debates to see the "bullsh1t" behind the manifestos.

IMO manifestos are a much better way of choosing a party than the debates. What they say in debates will be full of spin and saying what people want to hear. At least manifestos cant backtrack or dodge questions, its there in front of you in black and white.

Tarobot

As a matter of principle, I would never vote for FF or FG. Two sides of the same coin and I believe that voting for either helps prop up this anachronistic dynamic that is suffocating Irish politics...to put it mildly.

After that, I check the manifestos and see what I like. Environmental issues are important because to me it's pretty obvious that if you don't manage your resources properly, you're going to run yourself into the ground - it's basic physics. So I tend to vote Green. Looks like Labour is trying to wear some traditionally green policies which is all good. Unfortunately, there's nothing new in there and Liz McManus's climate bill was a bit watery. Plus the massive amount of borrowing they want to do terrifies me.

I'll probably be giving the independents a closer look this time round. Oh and SF are not even in the race for my vote.

kincsem

I will vote 1 to 11 because there are eleven candidates. Anyone who does not vote every candidate is not using their vote fully.

Buceph

kincsem wrote: »

I will vote 1 to 11 because there are eleven candidates. Anyone who does not vote every candidate is not using their vote fully.

That's wrong. You vote for who you want in order of preference. If you absolutely don't want someone, you don't vote for them. A numbered vote, even if it 11 could get someone elected. So if you don't want someone elected, don't give them a vote. If that means stopping after you place number 1 or number 52, so be it.

nesf

Proposed policy. I don't have any real allegiance to any party though my centre right economic views makes more than half the parties not an option for my first preference.

kincsem

Buceph wrote: »

That's wrong. You vote for who you want in order of preference. If you absolutely don't want someone, you don't vote for them. A numbered vote, even if it 11 could get someone elected. So if you don't want someone elected, don't give them a vote. If that means stopping after you place number 1 or number 52, so be it.

I hope someone takes up this discussion.

If I only vote one candidate number 1 and they get elected on the first count, their second preferences get distributed. If I do not pick a 2nd preference then other voters get to elect the second candidate as my voting ends with my one vote. To me it makes sense to continue my voting down the card.

Then you say if I vote someone number 11 in an eleven candidate constituency (with four seats) I will vote them in. Would not every other candidate get my vote before that candidate?

K_user

I don't have any real allegiance to any party, and I don't share the opinion that everything wrong with this country comes from FF.

Which me makes an open book.

While I agree that its time for a change, I don't agree to someone being elected on the basis that they could be better than the current crop.

I don't believe that FG are Irelands saviours because nothing that they have said or done in the past 8 years has impressed me. While FF have kinda out stayed their welcome, it would be good for them to take a break and rethink their approach - ie get rid of some of the "good auld boys" club.

I have voted Green in the past, but I wouldn't want them running the country.

I have voted Labour in the past, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about them being in charge.

And I'd rather vote for the silly hat party than SF.

I'm looking forward to this debate...might give me a clue as to what to do.

Pepe LeFrits

If there's anyone with a decent shot of toppling Brian Lenihan I'll vote for them. Otherwise, I don't know!

randomhuman

kincsem wrote: »

I hope someone takes up this discussion.

If I only vote one candidate number 1 and they get elected on the first count, their second preferences get distributed. If I do not pick a 2nd preference then other voters get to elect the second candidate as my voting ends with my one vote. To me it makes sense to continue my voting down the card.

Then you say if I vote someone number 11 in an eleven candidate constituency (with four seats) I will vote them in. Would not every other candidate get my vote before that candidate?

If you don't think there's any chance of your eleventh preference actually getting your vote, why enter an eleventh preference?

I'm not going to try to dream up a scenario in which your eleventh preference will get your vote; it is a remote possibility. But, if your concern is wasting your vote then it doesn't make sense to give a preference to candidates who you would not want to represent you under any circumstances because if your vote does go to them, it will not only be wasted, but will be actively working against your interests.

So, as Buceph said, the idea that somebody who does not give every candidate a preference is not using their vote fully is wrong.

dsmythy

kincsem wrote: »

I hope someone takes up this discussion.

If I only vote one candidate number 1 and they get elected on the first count, their second preferences get distributed. If I do not pick a 2nd preference then other voters get to elect the second candidate as my voting ends with my one vote. To me it makes sense to continue my voting down the card.

Then you say if I vote someone number 11 in an eleven candidate constituency (with four seats) I will vote them in. Would not every other candidate get my vote before that candidate?

You vote for whoever you want in government. When you run out of peeople you want to be in government then you stop writing your preferences in. That seems to make sense to me but each to their own.

whydoibother?

I'll put the big country-wide issues ahead of local issues. Unfortunately this may mean in my constituency I'll vote for some people based on the party they are from at the expense of more talented individuals from other people. I don't like our system one bit. However, it's important to get whoever you feel is the most competent party into power.

Buceph

kincsem wrote: »

I hope someone takes up this discussion.

If I only vote one candidate number 1 and they get elected on the first count, their second preferences get distributed. If I do not pick a 2nd preference then other voters get to elect the second candidate as my voting ends with my one vote. To me it makes sense to continue my voting down the card.

Yes, that would be the "correct" thing to do. As long as you have a preference for someone.

But if you have no preference for someone to be elected, either on their own right or over someone else then you stop. If you absolutely do not want someone to be elected, you shouldn't give them any preference. Multiple people can be ignored, because if you don't want them elected they should all be treated as discards as it doesn't make a difference to you, you think they're all equally undeserving of your vote. But if you think "I really don't want X elected so I'd tolerate Y to keep him out" then you have a preference for Y and should mark it accordingly.

Then you say if I vote someone number 11 in an eleven candidate constituency (with four seats) I will vote them in. Would not every other candidate get my vote before that candidate?

Say your numbers 1 to 3 get elected and their votes distributed and your numbers 4 to 10 are all eliminated because they have the lowest votes and don't reach the quota, they would look down your preferences and your number 11 would come into play as your next best choice. (This doesn't make absolute sense if there were only 11 candidates, but the idea is correct.)



I think dsmythy is wrong on this. You're not voting for who you want in, you're voting for who you would prefer to have in. It's a subtle difference. But if you're a politico who likes working his vote to the max with tactical voting, it can make a difference in certain, admittedly strange circumstances.

C14N

Sadly I'm just a bit too young to vote. However if I was voting I would probably do a bit of research into the main policies of each party.

As a rule of thumb, I'd forget SF and Labour, I disagree strongly with their general socialist policies. Independents are usually down the list too as I don't feel like they can make any big impact.

Greens would probably top my own list, I the environment is more important to me than the economy, I hold nothing against them for partnering with FF, seemed like a logical step for any small party to take imo.

FF have made some bad mistakes but I don't rule them out completely, I'm not inclined to put all the blame to them. Nobody really saw the property crash and recession coming and if any of the people who stand outside the Dáil protesting had seen it, they would have been sensible and saved their money. I feel like any other party would have made the same mistakes too.

FG seem like a good party in general but their major detractor is the big ties to Labour. It's not good imo to have the government split between two large parties with such contrasting views.

kincsem

I've done a bit of Googling and found this.

http://www.dochara.com/the-irish/facts/proportional-representation/

One thing it cleared up for me - if a candidate exceeds the quota voting papers of the number of votes by which he/she exceeded the quota are selected at random, and the second preferences of these voting papers are redistributed.

I will still vote 11 for the candidate I do not want to succeed. What I am doing is putting a candidate I prefer to the one I do not like higher up.

BEGGING FOR A PREFERENCE – ANY PREFERENCE!
Because each vote may be transferred multiple times and count in electing several candidates, those canvassing for a party are not deterred when they come upon a voter who declares he will not be giving their candidate a first preference. They will ask (implore) that the voter “Think of him/her anyway” and give a lower preference vote.

The effect is that every voter matters to every candidate, but particularly to those candidates likely to be fighting it out for the last couple of seats.

This confirms to me that political parties in trouble would prefer you did not vote all the way from 1 to 11. If you vote them number 11 they will not be elected, if you vote only number 1 and leave the rest of the paper blank your vote will end there. They hope to pick up 2nd, 3rd, 4th preference from their supporters who know how to vote.

takun

kincsem wrote: »

If you vote them number 11 they will not be elected, if you vote only number 1 and leave the rest of the paper blank your vote will end there.

I would have disagreed with you a few days ago, but I've been rethinking this.

And it now seems to me that voting right down the line IS better than leaving blanks. Take a situation where there is a last seat battle between two candidates, Y and Z, both of whom I dislike and my vote is still in the mix.

If I have voted for all candidates, my vote goes to whichever of these I least dislike. So Y gets my vote and is now 1 vote ahead, and I have effectively voted against Z. However if I have stopped voting without giving either a preference, neither gets a vote from me, which is excellent news for Z.

So it does now seem to me that a vote down the line is not a bad way to go, and is more effective than leaving a lot of blanks.