FG Nepotism

petroltimer

this why it will stick in my throat if i vote FG, although i Have always hated FF and never voted for them and it does not make since to vote for the loony labour party,

My home constituency of east galway, FG have parachuted in Paul Connaugton jr a 27 year old and whats his experience? well he shares the same name as his father who served with no distinction for 30 years. Hes 1/16 with the bookies to get a seat, people laugh at the die hard FF voters but here we have a situation where this guy will be elected because of his name,

Makes me sick, how many more are there, Barry Cowen is one and plenty more im sure so things not changing at all.

jmayo

petroltimer wrote: »

this why it will stick in my throat if i vote FG, although i Have always hated FF and never voted for them and it does not make since to vote for the loony labour party,

My home constituency of east galway, FG have parachuted in Paul Connaugton jr a 27 year old and whats his experience? well he shares the same name as his father who served with no distinction for 30 years. Hes 1/16 with the bookies to get a seat, people laugh at the die hard FF voters but here we have a situation where this guy will be elected because of his name,

Makes me sick, how many more are there, Barry Cowen is one and plenty more im sure so things not changing at all.

Why label this thread FG Nepotism ?
You concede yourself that ff are doing it with cowen.
They have done it with the likes of the brennans in Dublin, the kitts, the lenihans, the blaneys, the healy-raes (as good as ff).
Labour are doing it with spring in kerry.
sf are doing it with the ferris in Kerry.

Thus why single out one party, when the whole job lot of them in Ireland are up to it ?
Some are worse than others but they are all at it.

Zubeneschamali

petroltimer wrote: »

this guy will be elected because of his name

That's why they do it: it works, it gets seats for the party.

ART6

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That's why they do it: it works, it gets seats for the party.

It's also the Irish version of the hereditary aristocracy:D

OhNoYouDidn't

This isn't nepotism though...

petroltimer

im not taking a swipe totally at FG, i'm just been a bit romantic hoping that FG was going to be a knight in shining Armour, but i'm to old for fairy tales

OhNoYouDidn't

petroltimer wrote: »

im not taking a swipe totally at FG, i'm just been a bit romantic hoping that FG was going to be a knight in shining Armour, but i'm to old for fairy tales

Children tend to follow their parents into their professions. From doctors, nurses, footballers, publicans to gangsters. Happens all over the country.

If a kid grew up in a politically active household, they are more likely to be politically active.

Families in politics is not a bad thing per say. If you don't like them, don't vote for them.

It is not in any way nepotism. TD's giving their wives or kids state jobs that should have been advertised is.

dsmythy

If he were being put into a job of some kind then you may have a point. He's being put up for election. If the people don't like the fact he is somebody's son then they won't vote for them.

petroltimer

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Children tend to follow their parents into their professions. From doctors, nurses, footballers, publicans to gangsters. Happens all over the country.

If a kid grew up in a politically active household, they are more likely to be politically active.

Families in politics is not a bad thing per say. If you don't like them, don't vote for them.

It is not in any way nepotism. TD's giving their wives or kids state jobs that should have been advertised is.

It is nepotism, because his father and FG know that is they put him up he is guaranteed the seat, they are guaranteeing him a job because he is his fathers son. You say doctors, nurses follow their parents, true but they have all to meet national standards to practice their parents can't influence the exam result(not legally anyway).

Hey people can vote for who ever they want, the stupid way Irish people vote has given them for the last 15 years a government they deserve, and the present government was voted in for 5 years so they should have stuck it out till next year, no complaints from me.

OhNoYouDidn't

petroltimer wrote: »

It is nepotism, because his father and FG know that is they put him up he is guaranteed the seat, they are guaranteeing him a job because he is his fathers son. You say doctors, nurses follow their parents, true but they have all to meet national standards to practice their parents can't influence the exam result(not legally anyway).

Hey people can vote for who ever they want, the stupid way Irish people vote has given them for the last 15 years a government they deserve, and the present government was voted in for 5 years so they should have stuck it out till next year, no complaints from me.

Thats still not nepotism. Nepotism is giving family members jobs they are not entitled to.

A party member has been selected internally by FG to run for the Dail on their ticket. He is the son of a current FG TD, and as has been explained its common for children to follow the parents into any industry.

It is up to the electorate whether he gets in or not.

petroltimer

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Thats still not nepotism. Nepotism is giving family members jobs they are not entitled to.

A party member has been selected internally by FG to run for the Dail on their ticket. He is the son of a current FG TD, and as has been explained its common for children to follow the parents into any industry.

It is up to the electorate whether he gets in or not.

I know what the dictionary definition of nepotism is,, but this is the same,

you know or your fooling yourself if you don't agree that they are way more qualified people than him to run, its his name name name, jeez he was even given the same first name. I know and have talked to plenty of people with political science degrees and economics degrees and they never get a lookin, far more qualified than the son.

This again you miss the point what i was on about, FG are saying new start no more sleaze, but they are the same old same old

Manach

ditto Cork East for labour, but very unlikely for FF there given the numbers of the O'Keefee candidate.

J K

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

A party member has been selected internally by FG to run for the Dail

And just by coincidence the successful candidate party member is a next of kin of a current power broker in the Party.

Rubik.

37 of the current FF tds have or had at least one family member serving as a td, FG 16, Labour 6 and the Greens 1.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dail-family-trees-show-clans-who-rule-ireland-1990157.html

wee truck big driver

i dont think there is any specific education or talent which would make a good politican. personally i would like my politican to have a bit of cop on and common sense and be a hard worker

Shea O'Meara

It is nepotism and the bigger the party the more rampant.

If I give a job to you because I knew or was your father, regardless of your skills...we can agree, nepotism.

In my view, if I give up, retire or die and my son or daughter comes along and the party push him/her as a candidate over others and in turn people vote for him/her because they knew me....that's nepotism. Again, on a broader scale but in my view.

I will go so far as not to vote for siblings of a candidate I would have previously supported. I belive it's disingenuous of the parties concerned and politics should be a calling.
The odds of a decent politician are rare enough, how much higher that it's in the genes?

If a party plays that game, and as happend in two counts in my area, I will not support it. We've two fresh out of University, into local council, now running for seats mid-twenties Dail-trust kids from two different parties. F*** no.

hallelujajordan

Anyone who believes this is nepotism, clearly doesn't understand the meaning of the word. . . Every Irish citizen has the right to run for public office and political parties (which are private organisations) have the right to run whomever they want for public office. If we as voters cannot see beyond the family heritage and look at the qualifications of the candidate themselves then we have only ourselves to blame. . .

jimmycrackcorm

Far better to have FG do this than have Labour bring in the likes of Frank McBrearty....

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Anyone who believes this is nepotism, clearly doesn't understand the meaning of the word. . . Every Irish citizen has the right to run for public office and political parties (which are private organisations) have the right to run whomever they want for public office. If we as voters cannot see beyond the family heritage and look at the qualifications of the candidate themselves then we have only ourselves to blame. . .

+1

Neopotism involves giving someone the job because they're friends or family, without taking into account their qualifications - as Ahern confessed to directly to during the interview with Brian Dobson (without apparently even realising that it was admitting to blatant corruption, such is the sorry state of his actions).

If someone runs for office, even with a dynasty or connections behind them, then it is the electorate that choose to give them the job.

Too many people will blindly do this, just as too many people blindly vote for a party, but the issue isn't with the candidate; it's with the (unfortunately large percentage of the) electorate who think that way.

Monty Burnz

petroltimer wrote: »

My home constituency of east galway, FG have parachuted in Paul Connaugton jr a 27 year old and whats his experience? well he shares the same name as his father who served with no distinction for 30 years.

This is a big problem in Ireland, but it's ultimately the fault of the voters who vote for these muppets. If they didn't get votes, the parties wouldn't let them stand.

petroltimer

Liam Byrne wrote: »

+1

Neopotism involves giving someone the job because they're friends or family, without taking into account their qualifications - as Ahern confessed to directly to during the interview with Brian Dobson (without apparently even realising that it was admitting to blatant corruption, such is the sorry state of his actions).

If someone runs for office, even with a dynasty or connections behind them, then it is the electorate that choose to give them the job.

Too many people will blindly do this, just as too many people blindly vote for a party, but the issue isn't with the candidate; it's with the (unfortunately large percentage of the) electorate who think that way.

its the same old line about, if the people vote for them then thats fair enough, i was on about FG if this tarnishes their so called new start, no more sleaze, but then of course Enda himself got a free ride to his fathers seat.

Its the power of the party system and its not just Ireland, does anyone know of the most recently setup party in any western country to make up the bulk of a government?

Liam Byrne

petroltimer wrote: »

its the same old line about, if the people vote for them then thats fair enough, i was on about FG if this tarnishes their so called new start, no more sleaze, but then of course Enda himself got a free ride to his fathers seat.

What "so-called new start" ? It's FF that are pretending to be reinventing themselves, not FG!

petroltimer wrote: »

Its the power of the party system and its not just Ireland, does anyone know of the most recently setup party in any western country to make up the bulk of a government?

The "power of the party system" would apply just by them being a member of the same party; they wouldn't have to be a family member.

I agree with you on this part, especially with people inexplicably following parties. If someone's a different candidate they should be viewed - at least 75% - purely on THEIR abilities, not the abilities of whoever previously represented that party.

Shea O'Meara

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Anyone who believes this is nepotism, clearly doesn't understand the meaning of the word. . .

World English Dictionary

nepotism (ˈnɛpəˌtɪzəm)
— n favouritism shown to relatives or close friends by those with power or influence

Favoritism granted to relatives or close friends, without regard to their merit. Nepotism usually takes the form of employing relatives or appointing them to high office.

Now, I mentioned 'in my view' understanding it was not the meaning as commonly understood.
I would suggest a party HQ putting one candidate forward over another based on relationships to either themselves or colleagues...nepotism.
Also, I'm specifically referencing two people who went fresh from graduation, to council seats, (not on merit) and one of whom is running in the general election. It is my belief that both were simply ushered in on a name recognition basis. I know for a fact one of the candidates never set foot in my neighbourhood until graduating.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

If we as voters cannot see beyond the family heritage and look at the qualifications of the candidate themselves then we have only ourselves to blame. . .

Obviously...now what if someone posted a thread on the issue....and then I posted my views on it....hmmmmm.
All you've done is state the obvious and disagree on the definition of the word 'nepotism'.
We know there are many idiots who will vote for a particular party come rain or shine, we all know that's their right.
I believe it's wrong of any party to put someone forward due to nothing other than name recognition for these idiotic voting zombies.

hallelujajordan

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Now, I mentioned 'in my view' understanding it was not the meaning as commonly understood.
I would suggest a party HQ putting one candidate forward over another based on relationships to either themselves or colleagues...nepotism.
Also, I'm specifically referencing two people who went fresh from graduation, to council seats, (not on merit) and one of whom is running in the general election

The reason this is not nepotism (even as per your definition) is that parties do choose candidates 'on their merit' all the time. It is absolutely nothing to do with who they are related to.

What you are missing is that 'merit' as defined by political parties is the ability to bring in votes and very little else. It's sad, but it's the electorates fault, not the parties and it certainly isn't nepotism.

Another example of this is FG choosing to run George Lee in Dublin South by-election. You could argue that he was selected on merit but it became clear to George after 9 months that merit had little to do with his economic skills and everything to do with his ability to bring in votes.

mconigol

OP this strikes me as the typical old Irish thing of blaming the politicians for all our ills when in fact it is the electorate themselves who had got Ireland in the state it is in.

Maybe if people took more of an interest in the good times rather than moaning and complaining when it't too late things would be different.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

The reason this is not nepotism (even as per your definition) is that parties do choose candidates 'on their merit' all the time. It is absolutely nothing to do with who they are related to.

We all know that political parties view things differently to those of us in the real world.

But the key point is they cannot actually give them the job.

If someone isn't good enough to do the job, then the people shouldn't vote for them*

* Irish version : vote for the least worst

onimpulse

ART6 wrote: »

It's also the Irish version of the hereditary aristocracy:D

Except if it was really hereditary aristocracy they wouldn't have to be elected. It's the voters fault - we elect them, we have to take responsibility for it.

Shea O'Meara

hallelujajordan wrote: »

The reason this is not nepotism (even as per your definition) is that parties do choose candidates 'on their merit' all the time. It is absolutely nothing to do with who they are related to.

We disagree. I know of many instances where someone is put forward for election simply based on who they are related to.
And even if not related, puting in a 'blow in', as we say locally, over a more suitable candidate, that being one involved in politics with a track record of good standing, is nepotism as I understand it. The reasoning behind such a move is not the issue. If you can come up with a more apt word I will take it on board. I'm not married to nepotism, but I did go to school with her brother;)

hallelujajordan wrote: »

What you are missing is that 'merit' as defined by political parties is the ability to bring in votes and very little else. It's sad, but it's the electorates fault, not the parties and it certainly isn't nepotism.

Merit, in the definition is in regards to a persons merits, what skills they bring, are they worthy.
And I'm not missing it at all, I'm actually commenting on the fact that I think picking a candidate just because they are most likely to get more votes does not bode well for a party's view on civic duty over power hunger, (see FFail).

Do you not think we may both have a point?

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Another example of this is FG choosing to run George Lee in Dublin South by-election. You could argue that he was selected on merit but it became clear to George after 9 months that merit had little to do with his economic skills and everything to do with his ability to bring in votes.

Exactly, I don't know the guy, but it seemed that way. Personally I would have ran amok rather than quit.
I just don't believe a party can live to full potential civically, if putting popularity over ethics and policy. Because these will change as people come and go, so to fill the seats with family and celebs is to water down and core system of beliefs a party claims to have once stood for.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

the key point is they cannot actually give them the job.

I would argue that people will be party loyal to the point of voting for who ever their party puts forward.

Liam Byrne

onimpulse wrote: »

Except if it was really hereditary aristocracy they wouldn't have to be elected. It's the voters fault - we elect them, we have to take responsibility for it.

I'll take full responsibility for who I elect, and it's never been based on who their parents were or whether they once played for a county-winning GAA club.

Everyone else can take responsibility for whoever they voted for, be it the likes of O'Dea or Lowry or Ahern, but I'll only take responsibility for my own actions.

There was a "dynasty" re the O'Malleys in Limerick, but given that Dessie (son of Donogh) was the one who called Haughey's bluff, I think he stands on his own merit.

Unfortunately his party abandoned its principles after that, which is why they never again got a vote from me.

So vote based on track record & potential people! And abandon anyone who u-turns or sells you out.

Liam Byrne

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I would argue that people will be party loyal to the point of voting for who ever their party puts forward.

Some people will. And THAT is the problem. Regardless of whether or not they're related to anyone.

So let's fix the ACTUAL problem so that it goes away. Forever.

FF and proud

Sure theres always with been corruption with them peoples in Fine Gael, thats why they never got my vote.

Liam Byrne

FF and proud wrote: »

Sure theres always with been corruption with them peoples in Fine Gael, thats why they never got my vote.

And yet FF got it?

Does. Not. Compute.

hallelujajordan

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

We disagree. I know of many instances where someone is put forward for election simply based on who they are related to.
And even if not related, puting in a 'blow in', as we say locally, over a more suitable candidate, that being one involved in politics with a track record of good standing, is nepotism as I understand it. The reasoning behind such a move is not the issue. If you can come up with a more apt word I will take it on board. I'm not married to nepotism, but I did go to school with her brother;)
.

In my view, it is simply favouritism . .and I think the George Lee example illustrates why . . Nepotism implies that the parties are willing to put forward someone simply because they are the brother / son / daughter of a previously popular candidate. . . The reality is that they have no particular loyalty or preference for the relative. . they put them forward because they know that they will bring in votes. You could never call the George Lee example nepotism, but it was exactly the same thing.

BTW, we agree this is wrong but like so much else in our country the buck stops with the voters, not with the parties.