Buffy's suitors

nyarlothothep

Basically I think she had issues because her dad left the family to pursue his career, hence why she dated Angel who played into that whole dark mysterious can be an bastard type guy that chicks with issues fall for. When she goes out with Riley, the most stable,though a bit controlling, level headed dude who Xander (he who sees clearly) gets along with best, she dumps him for some half baked reasons. Although Riley was a bit pushy/intense about the whole relationship thing. Finally she enters an abusive relationship with Spike. Interestingly enough Spike was probably best matched to her as both were a bit quirky, enjoyed fighting and had blonde hair. In addition was Angel a sleazebag? I mean hes what? 205 years old going out with a 17 year old? Thats worse than Berlusconi.

nicowa

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Basically I think she had issues because her dad left the family to pursue his career, hence why she dated Angel who played into that whole dark mysterious can be an bastard type guy that chicks with issues fall for. When she goes out with Riley, the most stable,though a bit controlling, level headed dude who Xander (he who sees clearly) gets along with best, she dumps him for some half baked reasons.

Yes, it was half baked that she dumped him because he was going to vampire whores whom he was paying to suck his blood. It was clearly all her fault that he had to go to them when she was too busy having family problems to pay him any attention. Never mind the fact that it was suggested that he was doing this for some time because he'd lost his whole 'more than a normal, but not quite a super hero' stitck.

Although Riley was a bit pushy/intense about the whole relationship thing. Finally she enters an abusive relationship with Spike. Interestingly enough Spike was probably best matched to her as both were a bit quirky, enjoyed fighting and had blonde hair. In addition was Angel a sleazebag? I mean hes what? 205 years old going out with a 17 year old? Thats worse than Berlusconi.

I don't think her and Spike would have been suited in any world where she hadn't gone through the whole 'being dragged out of hell and left to dig herself out of her own grave'.

I wouldn't have a strong argument against Angel being a sleaze except that he is shown to be so in love with her. And Buffy was clearly forced to grow up pretty quickly by her calling. Which is one reason she would never have gone out with Xander, having met her when she did at his age.

That Buffy went out with Riley, who is everything that Xander is and wants to be just shows Xander how much he had to grow up and emphasised my earlier point.

Buffy goes through so much in the series and grows up so much and changes so much it would have been hard for any one man to be on par with her for the entire series - except maybe Angel.

nyarlothothep

nicowa wrote: »

Yes, it was half baked that she dumped him because he was going to vampire whores whom he was paying to suck his blood. It was clearly all her fault that he had to go to them when she was too busy having family problems to pay him any attention. Never mind the fact that it was suggested that he was doing this for some time because he'd lost his whole 'more than a normal, but not quite a super hero' stitck.




I don't think her and Spike would have been suited in any world where she hadn't gone through the whole 'being dragged out of hell and left to dig herself out of her own grave'.

I wouldn't have a strong argument against Angel being a sleaze except that he is shown to be so in love with her. And Buffy was clearly forced to grow up pretty quickly by her calling. Which is one reason she would never have gone out with Xander, having met her when she did at his age.

That Buffy went out with Riley, who is everything that Xander is and wants to be just shows Xander how much he had to grow up and emphasised my earlier point.

Buffy goes through so much in the series and grows up so much and changes so much it would have been hard for any one man to be on par with her for the entire series - except maybe Angel.

Oh yeah, forgot about the vamp whores bit, yeah I guess he was a knob in the end. Haven't seen those episodes in depth but Buffy came across as completely self absorbed, I think even Xander said that and Riley had gone through some messed up sh1t. The vampire whores incidents were a combination of that and trying to get Buffy's attention more than genuine infedelity plus he staked them. I think there was always an attraction between Spike and Buffy, the fight scenes and back and forth sniping ever since they met indicates this.

Where at any point does Xander want to be like Riley? Im a casual viewer so I don't know every detail. He seemed to get along with Riley but was happy enough in his own life. Angel was a complete bellend, I never really liked the character, he was a bit of cliche that played into the female fantasy of a dark gothic character, sensitive yet also dangerous, not very original.

iguana

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Buffy came across as completely self absorbed,

She had just discovered that her little sister was actually a mystical force put into human form so she could protect it and at the same time her mother was diagnosed with a potentially fatal brain tumour. The only one being self-absorbed at that point was the person who expected her attention to be on him, rather than being supportive in quiet subtle ways.

nicowa wrote:

I don't think her and Spike would have been suited in any world where she hadn't gone through the whole 'being dragged out of heaven and left to dig herself out of her own grave'.

FYP:P

nyarlothothep

iguana wrote: »

She had just discovered that her little sister was actually a mystical force put into human form so she could protect it and at the same time her mother was diagnosed with a potentially fatal brain tumour. The only one being self-absorbed at that point was the person who expected her attention to be on him, rather than being supportive in quiet subtle ways.



FYP:P

Riley was supportive of her in quiet ways, I mean the fact that Xander (the shows seer) said she was being selfish should indicate something no? Or maybe that was just an expression of his bromance with Riley? Even before all that she was a bit stand off-ish or maybe Riley was too needy? I dunno but in any case all her relationships were somewhat disasterous, I mean she goes out with two vampires, one of whom hasn't got a soul, the other who does a jekyll and hyde routine, then a military dude who may or may not be too controlling/overbearing and cheats on her to an extent and then some other dude at the start of season 4 who cheats on her. I would say that may have something to do with abondonment issues with her father.

iguana

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Riley was supportive of her in quiet ways, I mean the fact that Xander (the shows seer) said she was being selfish should indicate something no? Or maybe that was just an expression of his bromance with Riley? Even before all that she was a bit stand off-ish or maybe Riley was too needy? I dunno but in any case all her relationships were somewhat disasterous, I mean she goes out with two vampires, one of whom hasn't got a soul, the other who does a jekyll and hyde routine, then a military dude who may or may not be too controlling/overbearing and cheats on her to an extent and then some other dude at the start of season 4 who cheats on her. I would say that may have something to do with abondonment issues with her father.

Riley wasn't especially supportive of Buffy. He wanted her to lean on him and couldn't handle it when she relied on herself rather than him. He couldn't deal with someone as strong as she was.

In many ways she's the most powerful and strong person in the world, with enormous responsibilities. That's both a huge strain and imbalance to put on any relationship. And Buffy has even less chance of making her relationship work by virtue of the fact that she is a straight female.

If the strongest and most powerful person in the world was a man, he would find it easier to be accepted by a woman as women are generally physically weaker. When the woman is stronger, and so significantly so, it turns the tables to a level that someone like Riley could not handle. Riley wasn't a misogynist, he married a woman who was clearly his equal, but he couldn't handle being so significantly weaker. Both Angel and Spike could accept being the weaker in the relationship as they were both sired by female vampires.

Also Buffy was about 22 when the series ended. I know that when I was 22 I could safely say all my relationships had been different levels of disasters. And that's without all the issues being a slayer brings to the relationship table.

nyarlothothep

iguana wrote: »

Riley wasn't especially supportive of Buffy. He wanted her to lean on him and couldn't handle it when she relied on herself rather than him. He couldn't deal with someone as strong as she was.

In many ways she's the most powerful and strong person in the world, with enormous responsibilities. That's both a huge strain and imbalance to put on any relationship. And Buffy has even less chance of making her relationship work by virtue of the fact that she is a straight female.

If the strongest and most powerful person in the world was a man, he would find it easier to be accepted by a woman as women are generally physically weaker. When the woman is stronger, and so significantly so, it turns the tables to a level that someone like Riley could not handle. Riley wasn't a misogynist, he married a woman who was clearly his equal, but he couldn't handle being so significantly weaker. Both Angel and Spike could accept being the weaker in the relationship as they were both sired by female vampires.

Also Buffy was about 22 when the series ended. I know that when I was 22 I could safely say all my relationships had been different levels of disasters. And that's without all the issues being a slayer brings to the relationship table.

Riley may have been weaker but I think that the distance issue was present at the start and was only exacerbated when Buffy grew more distant owing to circumstances. Riley was correct in saying that she didn't love him. She was stronger than him and its an interesting analysis to say he couldn't handle being so much weaker, I think that may have been a factor but he had his patriotism and his work as a government agent/researcher to draw upon.

As for Angel and Spike, well with Angel I didn't watch the episodes too closely but he seemed more than a match for buffy and only lost to her because the plot required it. Spike was nearly as strong and had the experience of 200+ years of fighting experience, and taught Buffy his fighting techniques. I found that while he could certainly fight well with Buffy he would often just stand there waiting to be punched because from the start he liked her and couldn't bring himself to hurt/kill her. This brings up an interesting paradox in Spikes personality, he's a vampire but often times he will act as if he had a soul, for example when hes brings a shotgun to Buffys porch, he's about to kill her but then reconsiders and decides to comfort her instead because he feels pity. This is weird behaviour for a soulless vampire.

I don't think she was the only superhero either, Willow was more powerful than all the characters put together, she was the only one who could credibly take on Glory, a god no less. She only held back from using them because the self hatred, which had its inception in high school in being a pariah, meant that once she achieved that level of power, she got drunk on it and acted on her misantrophy.

Finally I think personality plays more integral role than age in determining the failure or success of a relationship. Obviously a relationship that has ended could in one sense be said to have failed, although on the other hand one could view it as a successful conclusion. This didn't apply to Buffy. Willows parting with Oz was an unmitigated disaster, exclusively on Oz's part, although they managed to make amends. Xanders break up with Anya was also a mess. In fact all the relationships in Buffy were disasters. Maybe all the characters had deep seated psychological issues.

nicowa

iguana wrote: »

FYP:P

Thanks! :-)

nyarlothothep wrote: »

then a military dude who may or may not be too controlling/overbearing and cheats on her to an extent and then some other dude at the start of season 4 who cheats on her.

To an extent? He cheated. And in the other case she was a college freshman who fell for an idiotic pick up line in a moment of self doubt. It wasn't exactly a relationship...

iguana wrote: »

Also Buffy was about 22 when the series ended. I know that when I was 22 I could safely say all my relationships had been different levels of disasters. And that's without all the issues being a slayer brings to the relationship table.

I can agree with that sentiment...

Handsome Bob

I like Angel best as a character, but I liked Riley best as a partner for Buffy. That season 6 episode where Riley returned, even though it was riddled with plot holes, it was still a fantastic representation of just how good Riley was for Buffy. In truth he kick started Buffy snapping out of her depression and abusive relationship with Spike.

Spike was never good for Buffy as a partner IMO, in Season 7 the guy had no mind of his own, just blindly following Buffy in every decision she made.

As for Angel, I think his relationship with Buffy was mostly about finding someone who was as lost as he was and who had an identity crisis just like he did. His relationship with Cordy was much healthier and mature.

Augmerson

nyarlothothep wrote: »

In addition was Angel a sleazebag? I mean hes what? 205 years old going out with a 17 year old? Thats worse than Berlusconi.

****ING LOL AHAHAHA sitting here drinking cheap Tesco beer and read that and almost got sick laughing, POST OF THE DAY FOLKS

nyarlothothep

nicowa wrote: »

Thanks! :-)



To an extent? He cheated. And in the other case she was a college freshman who fell for an idiotic pick up line in a moment of self doubt. It wasn't exactly a relationship...



I can agree with that sentiment...

No it wasn't exactly cheating as they were vampires and he staked them, you could say he was just trying out a new more efficient less exhaustive method of slaying vampires compared to the usual technique of fighting them.

In relation to the second point, yeah it never maturated into a relationship because Buffy made a more disasterous choice than usual.

The point is to do with Buffy's choices which influence the downward spiral of her love life. The best she could do at the end of season 7 was say halfheartedly that she loved Spike as he was being incinerated=mega fail in matters of love.

nicowa

nyarlothothep wrote: »

No it wasn't exactly cheating as they were vampires and he staked them, you could say he was just trying out a new more efficient less exhaustive method of slaying vampires compared to the usual technique of fighting them.

In relation to the second point, yeah it never maturated into a relationship because Buffy made a more disasterous choice than usual.

The point is to do with Buffy's choices which influence the downward spiral of her love life. The best she could do at the end of season 7 was say halfheartedly that she loved Spike as he was being incinerated=mega fail in matters of love.

It was cheating.. it was shown that he had a near sexual experience when they fed on him and the fact that he staked them afterwards was more to make him feel less guilty (and he did hate vampires). He still got off on the feeling and it was a physical connection. That makes it cheating.

And I can only say that when she told Spike that she loved him... he was about to die to save the world. If that doesn't deserve some sort of thanks...

nyarlothothep

nicowa wrote: »

It was cheating.. it was shown that he had a near sexual experience when they fed on him and the fact that he staked them afterwards was more to make him feel less guilty (and he did hate vampires). He still got off on the feeling and it was a physical connection. That makes it cheating.

And I can only say that when she told Spike that she loved him... he was about to die to save the world. If that doesn't deserve some sort of thanks...

(1) Yeah but he was acting it, female vampires like Drusilla are telepathic, he had to hide his true feelings. Therefore loyal to Buffy to the end.

(2) Agreed.

nicowa

nyarlothothep wrote: »

(1) Yeah but he was acting it, female vampires like Drusilla are telepathic, he had to hide his true feelings. Therefore loyal to Buffy to the end.

No, Dru was telepathic. It's not something that is common in vampires and they have never shown it to be. Dru was telepathic and had visions as a human and it carried over.
And I don't think he was acting it.

nyarlothothep

nicowa wrote: »

No, Dru was telepathic. It's not something that is common in vampires and they have never shown it to be. Dru was telepathic and had visions as a human and it carried over.
And I don't think he was acting it.

well then thats just your opinion

Faith

nyarlothothep wrote: »

well then thats just your opinion

I don't think it's an opinion. Drusilla was clearly shown to have supernatural abilities long before she was turned (Becoming Part 1). It's unrelated to her being a vampire, although time may have improved it. Other female vampires don't automatically have telepathic abilities.