If I set up a political group focused on lobbying politicians on mental health topics

nesf

Would you support it or take part? We've a new Government coming in and I'm quite angry about the lack of services available to people with bipolar specifically and mental health problems more generally and would like to do something about it.

pepperpixie

i agree with you wholeheartedly, i would definitely support it and would try take part in some way.

ntlbell

I'll support it in anyway I possibly can.

Splendour

Good for you nesf. Don't know if you watched 'Would You Believe' on RTE 1 last night; it was about suicide and at the end of it they mentioned that in 1966 23% of health spending went toward mental health whereas in 2010 only 5.4% went to mental health.

Mr Benevolent

I'll support it with vigour.

nesf

Splendour wrote: »

Good for you nesf. Don't know if you watched 'Would You Believe' on RTE 1 last night; it was about suicide and at the end of it they mentioned that in 1966 23% of health spending went toward mental health whereas in 2010 only 5.4% went to mental health.

A lot of that would be that mental health is still very low tech (no need for expensive machines for the most part) and the rest of medicine has for the most part gotten much more high tech since the 60s.

irishh_bob

Splendour wrote: »

Good for you nesf. Don't know if you watched 'Would You Believe' on RTE 1 last night; it was about suicide and at the end of it they mentioned that in 1966 23% of health spending went toward mental health whereas in 2010 only 5.4% went to mental health.

thats because policy has so dramatically changed regarding mental health in the last forty years , in the sixties , people were often permanently placed in institutions , this cost money , nowadays , unless you are found guilty but insane of a serious violent crime , you wont be sent to the big house indefinatley , plans are in place to eventually close most of the psychiatric institutions around the country and to instead open up localised centres where patients can attend on a regular basis , CARE IN THE COMMUNITY

reilig

I'd support you in every way possible. I have a range of clients that i work with who would take part and support as the cause would be close to their hearts. I also have work colleagues who work with clients across the country who would help and support.

whiteonion

nesf wrote: »

Would you support it or take part? We've a new Government coming in and I'm quite angry about the lack of services available to people with bipolar specifically and mental health problems more generally and would like to do something about it.

If I were to tell you that mental illness does not exist and it's just a social construct what would you say?

sam34

whiteonion wrote: »

If I were to tell you that mental illness does not exist and it's just a social construct what would you say?

not the thread or forum for this, so drop it.

nesf

whiteonion wrote: »

If I were to tell you that mental illness does not exist and it's just a social construct what would you say?

I'd just ignore you like I'm going to do right now.

whiteonion

nesf wrote: »

I'd just ignore you like I'm going to do right now.

A political group lobbying on mental health issues seems just like another special interest group interested in robbing the taxpayer blind.

nesf

whiteonion wrote: »

A political group lobbying on mental health issues seems just like another special interest group interested in robbing the taxpayer blind.

Depends on whether you think mental health sufferers are worth supporting or not. I've no delusions about this, we'd be arguing for a small piece of a very split up pie of funding.

That said, I think you're dramatically overestimating the success of any lobbying by mental health groups if you think they'd be capable of robbing the taxpayer blind based on past performance.

sparkling sea

http://mentalhealthreform.ie/

Mental Health Reform campaigns for improved and prioritised mental health services in Ireland. Our campaign aims to increase the pressure on those with the power to improve mental health services. With your help, our concerted action can make a difference.

Mental Health Reform seeks to improve the lives of people with mental health difficulties by advocating for people's rights to the highest attainable standard of mental health and mental healthcare.

Anyone can join this campaign - they promote different issues and you can lobby on their behalf

irishh_bob

sparkling sea wrote: »

http://mentalhealthreform.ie/

Mental Health Reform campaigns for improved and prioritised mental health services in Ireland. Our campaign aims to increase the pressure on those with the power to improve mental health services. With your help, our concerted action can make a difference.

Mental Health Reform seeks to improve the lives of people with mental health difficulties by advocating for people's rights to the highest attainable standard of mental health and mental healthcare.

Anyone can join this campaign - they promote different issues and you can lobby on their behalf

just as i expected , that site propogates the myth that incarceration rates are high in this country , in truth , its extremley rare for someone to be committed against thier will in this country , its an issue close to my heart as i have close relatives who have been trying desperetley for years to have thier son committed against his will , only to have application after application rejected by the bleeding heart liberals who dominate the system , thier was a time when people were sent to the big house for slightly ecentric behaviour , the pendelum has completley swung the other way and you more or less have to be found guilty but insane of murder to find yourself locked up indefinatley nowadays , the familys of those who are not the full schilling suffer in silence while the PC do - gooders preach pietys from thier liberal ivory towers about how we only need to be concerned about the patients and before someone accuses me of being insensitive towards those who suffer from depression , im not in anway refering to those who suffer from depression , im talking about psychos who make up but a tiny fraction of the population

nesf

irishh_bob wrote: »

just as i expected , that site propogates the myth that incarceration rates are high in this country , in truth , its extremley rare for someone to be committed against thier will in this country , its an issue close to my heart as i have close relatives who have been trying desperetley for years to have thier son committed against his will , only to have application after application rejected by the bleeding heart liberals who dominate the system , thier was a time when people were sent to the big house for slightly ecentric behaviour , the pendelum has completley swung the other way and you more or less have to be found guilty but insane of murder to find yourself locked up indefinatley nowadays , the familys of those who are not the full schilling suffer in silence while the PC do - gooders preach pietys from thier liberal ivory towers about how we only need to be concerned about the patients and before someone accuses me of being insensitive towards those who suffer from depression , im not in anway refering to those who suffer from depression , im talking about psychos who make up but a tiny fraction of the population

Yeah we're at a horrible crossroads at the moment. We're moving away from institutionalisation towards treatment in the community (and this is broadly a good thing for the vast majority of cases) but the issue is the facilities aren't on the ground yet for treatment outside of hospitals in many areas and indeed there have been cases like you describe where people can't get someone committed even when it would be for the best for the person concerned. I don't think anyone working in mental health, and few mental health sufferers who've actually seen a lot of other ill people, would argue that every mental health sufferer can function outside of hospitals. There are a minority for whom institutions provide the best setting for them because their function and/or grip on reality is impaired to such a serious degree.

Incarceration rates are not low in this country though, there is quite a substantial permanent population in place in the system and the problems your relatives may be facing might be exactly this. There is a shortage of permanent beds available for a variety of reasons and many/most of the excess needs to be in place for suicidal cases where there is a serious danger to the patient's life and these cases push out more borderline non-criminal cases into the community for this reason. One of the best ways to tackle this is to attempt to get as many out of permanent care as possible by improving out-patient care and facilities.

MUSEIST

irishh_bob wrote: »

just as i expected , that site propogates the myth that incarceration rates are high in this country , in truth , its extremley rare for someone to be committed against thier will in this country , its an issue close to my heart as i have close relatives who have been trying desperetley for years to have thier son committed against his will , only to have application after application rejected by the bleeding heart liberals who dominate the system , thier was a time when people were sent to the big house for slightly ecentric behaviour , the pendelum has completley swung the other way and you more or less have to be found guilty but insane of murder to find yourself locked up indefinatley nowadays , the familys of those who are not the full schilling suffer in silence while the PC do - gooders preach pietys from thier liberal ivory towers about how we only need to be concerned about the patients and before someone accuses me of being insensitive towards those who suffer from depression , im not in anway refering to those who suffer from depression , im talking about psychos who make up but a tiny fraction of the population

Tbf refering to them as psychos is insensitive. You do understand the simple concept of mental illness, do you?

irishh_bob

nesf wrote: »

Yeah we're at a horrible crossroads at the moment. We're moving away from institutionalisation towards treatment in the community (and this is broadly a good thing for the vast majority of cases) but the issue is the facilities aren't on the ground yet for treatment outside of hospitals in many areas and indeed there have been cases like you describe where people can't get someone committed even when it would be for the best for the person concerned. I don't think anyone working in mental health, and few mental health sufferers who've actually seen a lot of other ill people, would argue that every mental health sufferer can function outside of hospitals. There are a minority for whom institutions provide the best setting for them because their function and/or grip on reality is impaired to such a serious degree.

Incarceration rates are not low in this country though, there is quite a substantial permanent population in place in the system and the problems your relatives may be facing might be exactly this. There is a shortage of permanent beds available for a variety of reasons and many/most of the excess needs to be in place for suicidal cases where there is a serious danger to the patient's life and these cases push out more borderline non-criminal cases into the community for this reason. One of the best ways to tackle this is to attempt to get as many out of permanent care as possible by improving out-patient care and facilities.

while thier may be a sizeable number of permanent patients in institutions, those people are either there willingly , there pre _ the year 2001 ( or whenever legislation was changed in a fundemantal way ) or there because they were found guilty but insane of a serious crime

as for your point about few mental health professionals being completley opposed to incarceration for anyone , i disagree , the majority of mental health professionals ( who call the shots ) are out and out zealots in thier idealogy on this issue , nothing else could explain the broad brush and completley pie in the sky wooly liberal project that is the CARE IN THE COMMUNITY initiative , theese people seem to genuinly believe that a nice chat delivered once a week in a caring tone by some progressive liberal is enough to prevent someone ( who believes thier postman is the devil ) terrorising thier family and community , its not only naieve in the extreme , its highly dangerous , unfortunatley due to the overwhelming bias in reporting on this issue and the fact that it effects such a small minority of people directly , no political party would dare try and oppose it for fear of having the PC community rain down on them

irishh_bob

MUSEIST wrote: »

Tbf refering to them as psychos is insensitive. You do understand the simple concept of mental illness, do you?

come live with my cousin for a week and we,ll see how you feel about my comments , have you ever had someone stand over you , pointing thier finger at you while screaming at the top of thier voice that you are possesed , that you are wicked for merley having changed the channell on a tv , i have , my sister has and my cousins and aunt do several times per week , oh and btw , thier is nothing simple about mental illness , this is the kind of broad brush approach im talking about , the liberals who drive the agenda like to potray a young mum suffering from post natal depression as being in the same league as an unhinged nutcase who is convinced that thier neighbours are martians from outter space and who believes st peter told them they will be sitting beside jesus in heaven , its a disgustingly dishonest trick by the PC brigade to try and silence debate on what is a wide and varied topic

nesf

irishh_bob wrote: »

while thier may be a sizeable number of permanent patients in institutions, those people are either there willingly , there pre _ the year 2001 ( or whenever legislation was changed in a fundemantal way ) or there because they were found guilty but insane of a serious crime

as for your point about few mental health professionals being completley opposed to incarceration for anyone , i disagree , the majority of mental health professionals ( who call the shots ) are out and out zealots in thier idealogy on this issue , nothing else could explain the broad brush and completley pie in the sky wooly liberal project that is the CARE IN THE COMMUNITY initiative , theese people seem to genuinly believe that a nice chat delivered once a week in a caring tone by some progressive liberal is enough to prevent someone ( who believes thier postman is the devil ) terrorising thier family and community , its not only naieve in the extreme , its highly dangerous , unfortunatley due to the overwhelming bias in reporting on this issue and the fact that it effects such a small minority of people directly , no political party would dare try and oppose it for fear of having the PC community rain down on them

You miss the point, most people with psychosis (such as myself) can function well enough on medication to be in the community. A minority don't, and they need long term hospitalisation but we've a hangover from the 60s when there just plain wasn't a good treatment for psychosis that worked for most people.

I agree that severe psychosis is extremely difficult on families, friends and neighbours. I don't think anyone disagrees with that and from my personal experience within the mental health system it does seem like psychiatrists I've spoken to agree that it is a problem. The thing is, without an abundance of beds, beds need to be rationed and in such an environment suicidal and criminal patients will get priority over merely crazy ones.

nesf

irishh_bob wrote: »

come live with my cousin for a week and we,ll see how you feel about my comments , have you ever had someone stand over you , pointing thier finger at you while screaming at the top of thier voice that you are possesed , that you are wicked for merley having changed the channell on a tv , i have , my sister has and my cousins and aunt do several times per week , oh and btw , thier is nothing simple about mental illness , this is the kind of broad brush approach im talking about , the liberals who drive the agenda like to potray a young mum suffering from post natal depression as being in the same league as an unhinged nutcase who is convinced that thier neighbours are martians from outter space and who believes st peter told them they will be sitting beside jesus in heaven , its a disgustingly dishonest trick by the PC brigade to try and silence debate on what is a wide and varied topic

Look I agree with you about the soft wooly liberals, nothing boils my blood more than some sob story about a person being on anti-depressants for a month being portrayed as "the reality of mental illness" when people like myself have been medicated non-stop for our adult lives and whose quality of life is far below that of a normal person and who are still lucky compared to other mentally ill people.

Thing is, psycho is offensive to many people as a term because of its criminal connotations. It is an illness and a crippling one and it is best to treat it with some sympathy rather than derision, your cousin can't help how he acts and behaves. His brain is just "wired the wrong way" and he can't do anything about it any more than a wheelchair bound person can get up out of the wheelchair to reach a high shelf.

Deriding a person for their mental health problems is exactly the same as deriding a blind person for not being able to see. It's not like either can do anything about it.

sam34

mod note: can we get the discussion back on topic please, ie whether you would support nesf's lobby group

irishh_bob

nesf wrote: »

You miss the point, most people with psychosis (such as myself) can function well enough on medication to be in the community. A minority don't, and they need long term hospitalisation but we've a hangover from the 60s when there just plain wasn't a good treatment for psychosis that worked for most people.

I agree that severe psychosis is extremely difficult on families, friends and neighbours. I don't think anyone disagrees with that and from my personal experience within the mental health system it does seem like psychiatrists I've spoken to agree that it is a problem. The thing is, without an abundance of beds, beds need to be rationed and in such an environment suicidal and criminal patients will get priority over merely crazy ones.

let me just say btw that i genuinley appreciate your open mindedness towards my view , usually , i get dismissed as a neandthral by people ( SAM especially ) on this subject , that im a crank who simply isnt progressive or enlightened enough on the subject , were i not so frustrated at my close relatives experience , i would not keep commenting on the topic

as for you second paragraph , im not convinced its a beds issue , i am of the opinion that thier is a policy of doing nothing with genuine crazys in place by the HSE , a pass the buck sit on the fence approach which either hopes the problem will go away or that eventually it will become a criminal matter and the police will own it , this might explain the number of mentally unwell peopl in our prison system btw , this is why i get so annoyed at liberal idealogues who oppose incarceration for anyone , thier ivory tower views not only threaten the broader community , they end up hurting the ill people they claim to be so concerned with , this kind of hypocritical posturing really gets my goat , the professional hand ringers on the ground who offer platitudes to distressed familys are just well intentioned idiots but the PC idealogue policy makers who make pious proclamations on the issue are the real enemy

sam34

bob, see note above to stay on topic, as well as clarification as to what the topic is.

any further off topic posts will be deleted and the poster banned.

irishh_bob

sam34 wrote: »

bob, see note above to stay on topic, as well as clarification as to what the topic is.

any further off topic posts will be deleted and the poster banned.

i fail to see how im going off topic , the points i raised are undeniabley linked to the issue of mental health and mental health policy , perhaps you should look past your personal opinions towards me ( as shown on other threads ) on this one

sam34

sam34 wrote: »

bob, see note above to stay on topic, as well as clarification as to what the topic is.

any further off topic posts will be deleted and the poster banned.

irishh_bob wrote: »

i fail to see how im going off topic , the points i raised are undeniabley linked to the issue of mental health and mental health policy , perhaps you should look past your personal opinions towards me ( as shown on other threads ) on this one

don't say you weren't warned.

in my first mod-post, i reiterated what the topic was, just so there could be no confusion.

banned for one week.

margarite

irishh_bob wrote: »

just as i expected , that site propogates the myth that incarceration rates are high in this country , in truth , its extremley rare for someone to be committed against thier will in this country , its an issue close to my heart as i have close relatives who have been trying desperetley for years to have thier son committed against his will , only to have application after application rejected by the bleeding heart liberals who dominate the system , thier was a time when people were sent to the big house for slightly ecentric behaviour , the pendelum has completley swung the other way and you more or less have to be found guilty but insane of murder to find yourself locked up indefinatley nowadays , the familys of those who are not the full schilling suffer in silence while the PC do - gooders preach pietys from thier liberal ivory towers about how we only need to be concerned about the patients and before someone accuses me of being insensitive towards those who suffer from depression , im not in anway refering to those who suffer from depression , im talking about psychos who make up but a tiny fraction of the population

I ll do what ever you want to help in the cause of highlighting depression. Maybe some of the negative vibe on this site from some users do not know what is like to suffer from depression. Well I m glad for them but you know what they say never say never. It might affect one of your family and I think this country is very badly served and it deserves a thread. So tell what you want me to do.

neelyohara

I'd totally support you.

You might want to take a look at the Amnesty mental health lobby. I've taken part in it for a couple of years now: http://www.amnesty.ie/mentalhealth

Sardonicat

Count me in.