Can't Receive Picture Saorview

Teddy455

I have a Sony BRAVIA KDL-32XBR4 television and can recieve the channels on saorview but i can't recieve and picture.Is it something wrong with my television or is it my antenna?

St Senan

Teddy455 wrote: »

I have a Sony BRAVIA KDL-32XBR4 television and can recieve the channels on saorview but i can't recieve and picture.Is it something wrong with my television or is it my antenna?

Your TV seems to be Mpeg2 and not Mpeg4 which is needed to receive Saorview

fat-tony

Where did you buy the TV? XBR seems to be an American model. I can't find that model on Sony Europe support site

Nowso

if you search in uk mode it cuts the picture on some tvs just change to ireland or france after searching

STB

Its an American Model from 2007.

Teddy455

Where did you buy the TV? XBR seems to be an American model. I can't find that model on Sony Europe support site

its not American i must of thought it was when i found the picture on the internet. its Irish i bought it in Harvey Normans.

Your TV seems to be Mpeg2 and not Mpeg4 which is needed to receive Saorview

The model number is: KDL-26S3000

My other Tvs model number is: KDL-32S3000

Sam Russell

Teddy455 wrote: »

The model number is: KDL-26S3000

My other Tvs model number is: KDL-32S3000

I have the 40 inch version of that. It is MPEG 2 and so is not Saorview compatible. You will need a STB to get a picture, but it will scan the channels in, and you can listen to the TV.:)

A good STB will give very good picture quality.

Teddy455

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have the 40 inch version of that. It is MPEG 2 and so is not Saorview compatible. You will need a STB to get a picture, but it will scan the channels in, and you can listen to the TV.:)

A good STB will give very good picture quality.

Do you know where i can get a STB for a cheap enough price?

Will i have to get a STB for all the tvs in my house. I have 5 tvs.

Sam Russell

Teddy455 wrote: »

Do you know where i can get a STB for a cheap enough price?

Will i have to get a STB for all the tvs in my house. I have 5 tvs.

Yes and yes.

PM me.

watty

Teddy455 wrote: »

Will i have to get a STB for all the tvs in my house. I have 5 tvs.

Yes, unless some are compatible. But you don't need to rush. More choice and cheaper later.

STB that are TOO cheap don't have enough compatibility and you will be unhappy later.
see http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/the-black-list/ for ones NOT to buy.

Either get Saorview certified, "Freeview HD" (not "Freeview") or MHEG4 + HD + MHEG5 box. But best is to wait a bit more.

STB

Teddy455 wrote: »

Do you know where i can get a STB for a cheap enough price?

Will i have to get a STB for all the tvs in my house. I have 5 tvs.

No. Not necessarily. Unlike analogue, yes you would have to have 5 seperate set top boxes for each room, but only if you wanted to watch seperate channels in each room.

If you just want to be able to feed whatever channel is on in the main room to all of the other TVs you can use a DTT box with an RF modulator. This will feed to each room around the house. So whatever is playing downstairs is receivable on each of them providing you do the cable run.

The box picks up DTT has an RF modulator and you can record to a USB drive on it as well - that you can playback on your TV (and playback what you have recorded in each room too). About €60 from various sites in CZ. So one box that will feed 5 TVs for €60 but with limitations.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69331155&postcount=62

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

No. Not necessarily. Unlike analogue, yes you would have to have 5 seperate set top boxes for each room, but only if you wanted to watch seperate channels in each room.

If you just want to be able to feed whatever channel is on in the main room to all of the other TVs you can use a DTT box with an RF modulator. This will feed to each room around the house. So whatever is playing downstairs is receivable on each of them providing you do the cable run.

The box picks up DTT has an RF modulator and you can record to a USB drive on it as well - that you can playback on your TV (and playback what you have recorded in each room too). About €60 from various sites in CZ. So one box that will feed 5 TVs for €60 but with limitations.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69331155&postcount=62

I think a STB will cost about €50 by launch time, and could well have PVR functionality with a USB memory stick or external HDD. A modulator will not give HD, or even SD quality, and requires cables all over the place. It will also require some form of magic eye to control the remote. It would be cheaper to get a STB for each TV, and if in a strong signal area, would be able to use a simple aerial for each TV.

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think a STB will cost about €50 by launch time, and could well have PVR functionality with a USB memory stick or external HDD.

No it wont. Not a hope of a Saorview approved Box with PVR being that cheap.

Sam Russell wrote: »

A modulator will not give HD, or even SD quality, and requires cables all over the place. It will also require some form of magic eye to control the remote.

Most Tv's in bedrooms are 14" and 19" TVs, mainly CRT. Why would you want HD. The very cabling you talking about would be required to cable up each box to RF anyway!

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would be cheaper to get a STB for each TV, and if in a strong signal area, would be able to use a simple aerial for each TV.

No it wouldnt be cheaper.

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

No it wont. Not a hope of a Saorview approved Box with PVR being that cheap.

Saorview approval has stalled, only Walker have bothered. Non approved boxes will work and will be about €50, or less.

Most Tv's in bedrooms are 14" and 19" TVs, mainly CRT. Why would you want HD. The very cabling you talking about would be required to cable up each box to RF anyway!

What you want is a digital signal, analogue is prone to noise and interference. Also, you have to cable, but in a strong signal area you can use a simple aerial. I have a piece of bent coathanger on the carpet giving perfect reception in my bedroom.

No it wouldnt be cheaper.

Well, if you start with €100 for your box, of course it will not be cheaper.

I agree there is a problem with 14 - 19 inch CRT TVs as they could be replaced with modern small full-spec LCD TVs for less than €200, but need a STB costing, if you need Saorview certification, €100. The sums are different if the STB is less than €50, and you can use a coathanger.

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

Saorview approval has stalled, only Walker have bothered. Non approved boxes will work and will be about €50, or less.

Saorview certification approval hasnt stalled. How could you make that assumption ? There are 2 boxes and 2 TV ranges on the way. Neither are Walker.

Sam Russell wrote: »

What you want is a digital signal, analogue is prone to noise and interference. Also, you have to cable, but in a strong signal area you can use a simple aerial. I have a piece of bent coathanger on the carpet giving perfect reception in my bedroom..

A "digital" signal ? What happens when you scart a box ?

No I wouldnt advise anyone to use a bent coat hanger Sam. It goes against all telecommunications principles!

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, if you start with €100 for your box, of course it will not be cheaper.

I agree there is a problem with 14 - 19 inch CRT TVs as they could be replaced with modern small full-spec LCD TVs for less than €200, but need a STB costing, if you need Saorview certification, €100. The sums are different if the STB is less than €50, and you can use a coathanger.

Okay already, stop with the coathanger solution please, before people start seeing it as a viable solution.

Look Sam, the DTT box with RF molulator is €60, it will serve whatever number of rooms or TVs you wish with cable runs, many people have prewired anyow. The OP had 5 rooms/TVs. You cant watch em all at one. This will be an acceptable solution for many. Infact they may not even be using the box if they are using a seperate satellite receiver and hence can chanhge the station for viewing upstairs.

Gerry Wicklow

STB wrote: »

Okay already, stop with the coathanger solution please, before people start seeing it as a viable solution.

AHhhhhhhh the good old days of the mark 1 Cortinas with a coat hanger sticking out of the wing.....

watty

A tiny fraction of the country can actually use an indoor aerial. RTE official line is that the service assumes an outdoor aerial for reliable reception.

A coathanger will damage the socket.

A suitably bent and correct length of coat hanger attached via connector screw terminal to end of coax with 3 turns loop of coax as a balun, will approximate to €20 "One for all" or Euro Shop €2 rabbit's ear + Loop aerial.

Poking anything other than correct connector wrecks the the socket.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

A suitably bent and correct length of coat hanger attached via connector screw terminal to end of coax with 3 turns loop of coax as a balun, will approximate to €20 "One for all" or Euro Shop €2 rabbit's ear + Loop aerial.

Poking anything other than correct connector wrecks the the socket.

I am not suggesting sticking a coathanger in the socket. That is just ridiculous.

I have an aerial made from wire from a coathanger, bent to form a folded dipole, which is then connected to the bare wires /braid of an aerial extension cable, with the coathanger extended to form a (sort of) balun. It works quite well and test well against a standard aerial. I prefer the term 'simple aerial' which is what I would call the €2 'rabbit ears' (UHF version).

RTE NL reckon that 60% of people should be able to receive the signal from a simple aerial or a loft aerial. Currently approx 95% of people should be able to get the signal, suggesting that 35% of people would need an external (gable height) aerial.

The idea of using a single STB to feed 5 TVs to me is ridiculous as it requires significant wires being installed, with magic eyes to send the remote signal to change channels, and a severe restriction on what anyone can watch in the house. You can buy a lot of STBs for the cost of all that. For $ky viewing, where there is a subscription involved, I can just about see the point. For €50 per STB, I can't. Just because you can do something does not make it a good idea. Who supports these CZ boxes here?

Anyway, there is 20 months to go, so the advice should be to wait and see what turns up. The old 14 inch CRT set might give up the ghost and need replacing. There may be loss-leaders from the retailers. Who knows?

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

I
RTE NL reckon that 60% of people should be able to receive the signal from a simple aerial or a loft aerial. Currently approx 95% of people should be able to get the signal, suggesting that 35% of people would need an external (gable height) aerial.

Those figures are not true. Certainly not for the current plan. More like 70% or more of people need proper outdoor aerial.

It "sounded" like you were suggesting poking a coathanger in. It's particularly ill-suited. You can make a better aerial just out of coax.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Those figures are not true. Certainly not for the current plan. More like 70% or more of people need proper outdoor aerial.

It "sounded" like you were suggesting poking a coathanger in. It's particularly ill-suited. You can make a better aerial just out of coax.

Well, I can receive the signal from a simple aerial on the floor of my conservatory at the far (from the TX) side of my house. If I can do that, then so can most of Dublin receiving from 3R, which accounts for 24% of the population.

Maybe 60% is optomistic, but I would suspect that it is about that. Once you get out in the country, reception changes, but most live in cities or towns. Even under the new plan, over 94% are covered, leaving very few not covered. Not nice for them that are left out, but the figures do not change much. The main transmitters cover most of the country however you look at it.

watty

Well, I can receive the signal from a simple aerial on the floor of my conservatory at the far (from the TX) side of my house. If I can do that, then so can most of Dublin receiving from 3R, which accounts for 24% of the population.

That actually doesn't logically follow.

Even in Ballinteer, if your window faces wrong way, you won't get Three Rock. I had to set a Yagi in front garden. No reception in Living room.

The coverage plan assumes outdoor aerials. RTE NL have said so. To get the final figure to 98% as planned some will be using quite good aerials.

Indoor aerial reception is very unreliable and is very very dependent on which room of house and exact location. People are best with a once off quality install that should last over 20 to 25 years and feed any number of TVs / PVRs, no matter location. Even if you have perfect indoor reception you can find a Study or Kitch TV doesn't work, or main TV doesn't work after it's moved, double glazing or Venetian blinds fitted.

Some of the indoor aerials sold at €30 are also poorer than your piece of wire, and some have too high gain amp, easily overloaded by Mobile Radio, Tetra, GSM, yet to be launched Digital Dividend services or interference.

My Daughter in Limerick City can't get a TV signal at all except on pole on Chimney, here far outside the city indoor aerial works in Kitchen (only Kitchen).

Currently the "official" line is "outdoor aerial" and if it happens to work on Indoor or loft, that's fine. But don't assume this will be the case for majority. People can try a €2 or even €12 indoor aerial (absolutely not worth paying more, as you point out, if the signal is good enough for Indoors even your simple wire will work), and if it doesn't work get a proper aerial fitted. Anyone keen at DIY can try it in attic, but for most people given running flex, uncertainty of choosing correct aerial etc, they are better to get an approved Aerial Installer.
RTE NL have learnt from past. Many people unlike UK had shoddy un-benchmarked aerial installs, if any at all and a rubbish picture that made them ripe pickings for UPC/Sky payTV. I think RTE NL will endorse specifications for aerials and install quality.

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have an aerial made from wire from a coathanger, bent to form a folded dipole, which is then connected to the bare wires /braid of an aerial extension cable, with the coathanger extended to form a (sort of) balun. It works quite well and test well against a standard aerial. I prefer the term 'simple aerial' which is what I would call the €2 'rabbit ears' (UHF version).

Not everyone does these things Sam! Some want a simple solution.

Sam Russell wrote: »

The idea of using a single STB to feed 5 TVs to me is ridiculous as it requires significant wires being installed, with magic eyes to send the remote signal to change channels, and a severe restriction on what anyone can watch in the house. You can buy a lot of STBs for the cost of all that. For $ky viewing, where there is a subscription involved, I can just about see the point. For €50 per STB, I can't. Just because you can do something does not make it a good idea. Who supports these CZ boxes here?

Most will have pre wired rooms for analogue. Even so a few metres of wiring is not expensive. Certainly not the cost of 5 STBs!

Running an aerial feed room to each would be required anyway for your proposal. Indoor aerials in each room simply will not work!

How about a combo box - would that be okay ? i certainly wouldnt be telling people to buy 5 terrestrial boxes, either way, when there is a cheaper way.

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

Not everyone does these things Sam! Some want a simple solution.



Most will have pre wired rooms for analogue. Even so a few metres of wiring is not expensive. Certainly not the cost of 5 STBs!

Running an aerial feed room to each would be required anyway for your proposal. Indoor aerials in each room simply will not work!

How about a combo box - would that be okay ? i certainly wouldnt be telling people to buy 5 terrestrial boxes, either way, when there is a cheaper way.

I have three TVs in my house. I never had an aerial before I quit UPC/NTL/Cablelink a few years ago. I had to experiment to solve the problem.

One TV is new, sited next to the Humax and gets the log-periodic aerial fed down the sat feed. Signal very good, with perfect analogue and perfect DTT. Log periodic because 3 Rock requires a wideband for analogue and DTT.

The second TV is fed from the old cut-off NTL cable in the front of the house. The cable is terminated with one of my 'simple aerial' jobbies, hanging in mid air, ponting roughly towards 3R. Again perfect analogue and DTT. It has been there for a few years now, but getting rusty, but still OK signal.

The third TV is in my bedroom, with another 'simple aerial' sitting on the carpet, carefully pointed at 3R. With this, any disturbance (like a vacuum cleaner) loses the signal, so a more permanent solution will be required. Soon, real soon.

Now I know that the simple aerials I use are not for everyone, but they are simillar in performance to the 'rabbit ear' type, and a little cheaper.

I cannot beleive that of all the houses in Dublin, that I have the only one with strong signals.

watty

No, you don't but, but only an unknown fraction, not the majority, and often not in the room that has TV unless the window faces the mast!

I'd just put a aerial for the Digital Group at this stage and not worry about Analogue.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

I'd just put a aerial for the Digital Group at this stage and not worry about Analogue.

My log periodic was installed 2 years ago, I have only recently got a TV that can receive the DTT service (natively). I was using a Picnic box that has now been retired.

3 Rock is one of the transmitters that requires a wide-band aerial for analogue, but most aerials installed by professionals are group A. The DTT signal is on Ch 54, so only that the signal is good, most installed aerials would be not good enough.

watty

I hate to be awkward, but a while ago you claimed most people in the area only need a bit of wire.

A Group A aerial may work quite well on chimney for Ch54 for any location that the chimney can see Three rock. Gain might be 6dB to 12dB lower at Ch52 than Ch25. But Gain on Chimney can be 20+ dB higher than indoors.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

I hate to be awkward, but a while ago you claimed most people in the area only need a bit of wire.

A Group A aerial may work quite well on chimney for Ch52 for any location that the chimney can see Three rock. Gain might be 6dB to 12dB lower at Ch52 than Ch25. But Gain on Chimney can be 20+ dB higher than indoors.

Three Rock is channel 54 for DTT, so gain would be well out of band. My point is that professional installers are putting Group A aerials, when they should be using Group W. I still think simple aerials will do the job for many people, and that is why the group A aerials work, because anything would work.

watty

Most "W" aerials are B/C with some D. Most are poor on bottom half of Group A.

Good Log Periodic is the exception.

Sam Russell

Last year I did some measurements on aerials using Ch 54. I tried out a grid aerial (bow tie) and against my simple aerial (made from coathanger wire).

Grid - sig strength 48 Quality 98
Simple - sig strength 46 Quality 94

This was done using the Picnic box as a signal meter. I presume that signal quality is a measure of BER.

As you see, not a lot of difference. The simple aerial would be very narrow band because of its design.

I thought that was interesting.

watty

Just to be pedantic.

We / you have no idea what scale the Picnic uses. Neither of these is measured professionally as a %. Each % point could be a massive step, and the steps need not be the same at differing points of scale.

If you put an attenuator in the higher one and reduced it to same bar size, then the attenuation is the extra gain of Grid. However above a certain level, an attenuator won't affect the BER at ALL, as the noise and Interference is attenuated too. The fact the BER changed noticeably suggests a huge drop in signal, but there is no way to know without proper testing. All you can say is the that the Grid is "Better", but you don't know at all by how much.

MACHEAD

STB wrote: »

Okay already, stop with the coathanger solution please, before people start seeing it as a viable solution.

What? Not even a 'digital coathanger'.

Sorry guys I couldn't resist that, I saw the shot, I just had to take it!

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Just to be pedantic.

You can of course be pedantic. There was another measurement I made using an amplifier on the grid.

Grid unamplified Sig strength 48 Q 98
Grid amplified Sig strength 73 Q 98

Amplifying does not change quality, which is what you would expect. The amp was 16dB if I recall correctly. My simple aerial had no reflectors or directors, so may have had more interference, but gave a perfect picture.

Sam Russell

MACHEAD wrote: »

What? Not even a 'digital coathanger'.

As Watty says, there is no such thing as a digital coat-hanger, just coat-hangers. That is just snake oil.

watty

There might have been less margin for very heavy rain, or very slight increased coarseness on rapid movement. There is FEC (forward error correction). Above a certain level of reception the FEC can correct the errors.

But without a proper meter you don't really know the difference.