Don't know if its finished

off.the.walls

http://soundcloud.com/evan-b54/running-out-of-time-mark

Lads i don't know if this should be left alone or not. Thinking about turning down the reverb on the vocals, can someone give me a second opinion please.

Zombienosh

The electric at the start sounds like it warbles out of tune slighty..i'd probly reduce the reverb a bit. sounds good though.

phonypony

I'd say maybe pull some low-mid out of the guitars and brighten up the top end a little bit. Reverb maybe a bit loud for mono, I'd probably shorten the reverb time. Maybe keep the vox in the centre. I like 'mix 3' on your page, sounds like the makings of an 80s Bond theme..

off.the.walls

Nice one dude. Gonna get back at the ould editing tomorrow.

dav nagle

There's no life in the acoustic guitar, needs to be restrung. The best part of the song is towards the end, I would be inclined to re arrange the song and shorten it. 5 minutes is way too much. Just pick the best parts of the song and any bits you are unsure of lop off. The timing isn't great either it could be tighter.

off.the.walls

oh i know yer man could not get the song in time with the click told me he wants to add bongos and a bass to it this week so lets see how this goes.

Denalihighway

this is coming more from a musician's perspective i suppose

but there are very glaring timing and tuning issues for both guitar and vocals. his vocal tone is quite nice at times but the pitching is off in a lot of places.

if he can't play in time and you can't get a good take, clearly, that's a big problem. perhaps he needs a bit more or better coaching during the engineering phase or perhaps he just needs to practice more but unless you get that stuff right at the start it's just going to sound bad it'll be next to impossible to patch it up. it does have a bit of soul to it but it all sounds extremely amateur

i realise you're not proclaiming it to be commercial standard but getting a good performance out of the musician is obviously a pre-requisite in order for you to even have a chance of getting a decent mix done

definitely too long too...there are some hooks in there but not enough going on to justify 5 mins

are you adding bass and bongos to the existing track? because if you are it won't fix it the issues decribed above, in fact it might even accentuate the problems...

krd

Timing and tuning can really be over-rated when it comes to certain kinds of music.

For something like the robot electric vagina biatches that is Girls Aloud you need to be spot on. For other stuff being a bit off can give it a more human feel.

Everyone gets hung up on timing with DAWs these days. Go listen to R.E.M's Losing my religion. The timing is not completely off but it is a bit more ragged from what people do these days.

As for this song. I think it's mostly fine. The lyrics might be a bit better. There's bits and piece hear and there where the singing is out of tune - but so TF what.

I think if the lyrics were a bit better the song would be, with all the off bits as is be quite a good song.

If all the kinks were ironed out; the tuning, the timing. It could be really boring. Listen to bloody kinks, for example.

off.the.walls

Started a edit of this last night...cut it down to almost 3:30 mins sounding alot better good bitta work to be done but should be all good .

Denalihighway

krd wrote: »

Timing and tuning can really be over-rated when it comes to certain kinds of music.

For something like the robot electric vagina biatches that is Girls Aloud you need to be spot on. For other stuff being a bit off can give it a more human feel.

Everyone gets hung up on timing with DAWs these days. Go listen to R.E.M's Losing my religion. The timing is not completely off but it is a bit more ragged from what people do these days.

As for this song. I think it's mostly fine. The lyrics might be a bit better. There's bits and piece hear and there where the singing is out of tune - but so TF what.

I think if the lyrics were a bit better the song would be, with all the off bits as is be quite a good song.

If all the kinks were ironed out; the tuning, the timing. It could be really boring. Listen to bloody kinks, for example.

I totally buy your point KRD, but i don't think it applies in this instance. It just sounds shoddy.

as I said myself, there is a certain soul to the song, i listened to it again this morning and found myself humming the verse melody to myself this afternoon - thats not a bad sign even if it just means my pathetic mind is too susceptible to catchy melodies.

I think he could get away with the vocal because the tone seems pretty nice to my untrained ears but the guitar playing just lets it down.

There comes a point where you have to draw the line at what's 'off the cuff' and what's bad...

casual listeners will spot it. they may not be even be conscious of what's making it sound bad to them but it'll just sound bad. there's got to be basic standards surely

off.the.walls

Re editing this entire song will post finished version when done.

krd

Denalihighway wrote: »

I totally buy your point KRD, but i don't think it applies in this instance. It just sounds shoddy.

as I said myself, there is a certain soul to the song, i listened to it again this morning and found myself humming the verse melody to myself this afternoon - thats not a bad sign even if it just means my pathetic mind is too susceptible to catchy melodies.

I think he could get away with the vocal because the tone seems pretty nice to my untrained ears but the guitar playing just lets it down.

There comes a point where you have to draw the line at what's 'off the cuff' and what's bad...

casual listeners will spot it. they may not be even be conscious of what's making it sound bad to them but it'll just sound bad. there's got to be basic standards surely

I don't know if it's that shoddy. Some bits - or a lot of bits could be replaced BUT. I think too many people go too far these days. Go too far it will sound like Natalie Imbruglia. Which is fine for pop music.

I've listened to the track a few times. And bits I thought were off (I think they're still off) have been growing on me. The only thing I think really lets down the track is the lyrics.

The other important thing to remember - everyone is using auto-tune these days and correcting their timing. It's really making music sound souless.

off.the.walls

I wont be using autotune i despise autotune the way this guy wants it is a liveish sound so The little timing inconstioncies kinda work in my favour in that respect but i will be slicing the song down by about a min.

Denalihighway

krd wrote: »

I don't know if it's that shoddy. Some bits - or a lot of bits could be replaced BUT. I think too many people go too far these days. Go too far it will sound like Natalie Imbruglia. Which is fine for pop music.

I've listened to the track a few times. And bits I thought were off (I think they're still off) have been growing on me. The only thing I think really lets down the track is the lyrics.

The other important thing to remember - everyone is using auto-tune these days and correcting their timing. It's really making music sound souless.

again I agree with u here bro but like i say there's a point where technical/playing errors are that glaring that the listening experience gets f*cked up for the lay-listener (which I consider myself)

i'm particularly referring to the guitars on this track, not so much the VOX

@ Off.the.walls - totally with you on little vocal imperfections, they can be very endearing. like i said i like his tone, its the guitars that seem to jar me

for me personally, if i was you i would push him harder to get the playing right. i don't know how hard you pushed him, maybe you flogged the sh*t out of him and if that's the best take he can do, fair enough. people have limitations. good luck with it.

off.the.walls

Mix two uploaded. Took a loada **** outta this song and ended up with something reasonablly ok. But as you've all spotted there are errors on the guitars and stuff so take a listen i'd appreciate any feedback.

krd

Denalihighway, I'm not sure what good timing is actually down to. It could be practice. I go months without practicing properly and my timing can be very ropey. But I have recorded stuff where the timing sounded dead on - other times dead off. Some days your fingers are more flexible than other days.

I think strumming is trickier than it would seem. I've been listening to older recordings - the strumming timing can sometimes be really off and they can cover it by layering more acoustics - or lots of effects - but I've heard a few things on the radio recently that sounded like 4 or 5 acoustics layered on each other.

I really wonder. I've been around people whose timing on recordings is flawless but when they play live they're always ropey. I really wonder how they get their recordings so spot on - maybe it isn't them or there's lots of over dubs or something else.

And there's way to much auto tune used by people - though I'd say a little to fix a little thing that's too far off is not such a bad idea. But where do you stop becoming an auto-tune junky like all the rest of the auto-tune junkies. I think recordings without auto-tune stand out and sound a lot better. But bad mistakes still need to be fixed.

drumdrum

Well, if things are too "on the grid" then you may as well get a decent virtual instrument pack and "robot-isize" the whole project.

As for auto-tune, I completely agree krd, its way overused. I only pitch correct vocals to fix small errors such as note-tails dipping and slight corrections if needed. The human element is important IMO so as long as a note doesn't stick out, I'm completely happy for the odd note to vary a few cents from the "perfect pitch" of the note.

As for rhythm and timing, I find that as long as the drums and bass are pretty much on the beat (with maybe some help from beat detective if needs be) it gives a lot more leeway for guitars and vocals time-wise. Of course, there is a cut off point where it can start to "drag" or "push" the song, but if you have a generally consistant player then it gives the song more of a human element. Instruments that tend to cut through a mix like a pianos upper register should be held closer to the grid though.

IMO, there is such a thing as over analyzing a song...