speed camera operators and court.

Bumpstop

Here's a quick question, If you go to court for a speeding offence, the prosecuting garda has to turn up. (from experience of them not)
If you are caught by a contract mobile van operated by civilians, and decide to go to court,who represents the state.
I thought a garda always had to do the prosecuting.

Victor

I imagine a garda (or state solicitor) will be doing the prosecuting and the operator will be available as witness.

Hooch

The court inspector or the state solicitor will prosecute the case and call the civilian operator as a witness.

Bumpstop

Yes all the above makes sense.
I wonder does this give you an even better chance of having the case struck out.
I.E. by non attendance of someone.
Would the mobile operator be reluctant to go to court, or his company refuse to release him.
Is the state solictor always in court, is there more than one.
I wonder has anyone gone to court on a contractor ticket yet.

kwalshe

im sure they thought of this when they implemented the system. At least I hope so.
Why do you ask?

squod

There's definitely a feeling out there that these operators are chancing their arm in the even of a fine going to court. There'll likely be a third party involved in this scam system. Like the people who ''recover'' fines from NTR.

Hooch

Bumpstop wrote: »

Yes all the above makes sense.
I wonder does this give you an even better chance of having the case struck out.
I.E. by non attendance of someone.
Would the mobile operator be reluctant to go to court, or his company refuse to release him.
Is the state solictor always in court, is there more than one.
I wonder has anyone gone to court on a contractor ticket yet.

Anyone can prosecute the case, a Garda can. Doesn't have to be a State solicitor.

His company is contracted to send him/her to court as a days work. So they mist go to court and must give evidence.

Bumpstop

I just ask because I love beating the system. ( don't blame me, it's not my fault if the system has flaws)
I have not seen any evidence of the "powers that be" planning anything properly.
I work for a company that requires people to go to court as a witness, they cannot force anyone to be a witness if they don't want to.
I wonder if they have just made it easier to beat this one.

michael999999

Bumpstop wrote: »

I just ask because I love beating the system. ( don't blame me, it's not my fault if the system has flaws)
I have not seen any evidence of the "powers that be" planning anything properly.
I work for a company that requires people to go to court as a witness, they cannot force anyone to be a witness if they don't want to.
I wonder if they have just made it easier to beat this one.

How long do you think a camera operator would stay in employment if he refused to go to court?

All the operators are ex Guards!

Bumpstop

Well why would the company care if an employee went to court or not, it makes no odds to them, they get paid anyway.
Why would they get involved in a dodgy labour court case, by hassling an employee, especially an ex garda, which they would most likely lose.
Where did you get your information all the operators are ex garda, which in actuall fact would be a definite plus, as they are the ones who usually don't turn up.

michael999999

Bumpstop wrote: »

Well why would the company care if an employee went to court or not, it makes no odds to them, they get paid anyway.
Why would they get involved in a dodgy labour court case, by hassling an employee, especially an ex garda, which they would most likely lose.
Where did you get your information all the operators are ex garda, which in actuall fact would be a definite plus, as they are the ones who usually don't turn up.

You have to be joking!

the company was specifically set up,and employees hired to do the specific job of prosecuting speeders. do you really think they have the option of not going to court.

All the operators are ex gardai!

Esel

michael999999 wrote: »

All the operators are ex gardai!

WTF? Jobs for the boys, or what! :mad:

Why are these jobs not open to everyone?

Hooch

Esel wrote: »

WTF? Jobs for the boys, or what! :mad:

Why are these jobs not open to everyone?

These jobs are NOT all ex Gardaí. In fact very very few are ex Gardaí. There are several eastern europeans working for them as are several non ex garda Irish people. To say they are all ex Gardaí is a sweeping statement and fully untrue.

The jobs were advertised and people applied. I am quite suprised it wasnt all ex Gardaí hired to be honest though....previous experience in court, use of speed detection equipment etc etc.

Victor

Bumpstop wrote: »

I work for a company that requires people to go to court as a witness, they cannot force anyone to be a witness if they don't want to.

However a subpeona can force you to go to court.

Bumpstop wrote: »

Well why would the company care if an employee went to court or not, it makes no odds to them, they get paid anyway.

Part of the company getting paid is for them to provide the operators as witnesses. No operator in court, no payment.

Likewise, part of the operators getting paid / retaining their employment is for them to do all their duties required of the job, which includes going to court. While sure, they could just not bother to show up, but they could get fired, lose pay / performance bonus, get subpoenaed and have to do it anyway. If they don't play ball, they get held in contempt of court and perhaps spend a few days in the cells. Or worse, perjure themselves and get a few years.

Bumpstop

Victor.
I doubt any work contract would mention court appearances.(less enforce it)
Show me any of what you say in writing.
A subpoena may force anyone to go to court, what they say, if anything, when they get there is another thing.
When you say " no payment" it's an annual contract, how would that work.
My bet is they are betting on few or no people going to court.
You have to remember the garda have being missing turning up for years, and they are supposed to be professionals.
A person would have to be in management to think a mobile camera operator would get a "performance bonus" lol.

Victor

Bumpstop wrote: »

I doubt any work contract would mention court appearances.(less enforce it)

Why? If its an inherent part of the work.

Show me any of what you say in writing.

I can hardly access their employment contracts.

A subpoena may force anyone to go to court, what they say, if anything, when they get there is another thing.

As I said, contempt of court and a few nights in the cells may change attitudes.

When you say " no payment" it's an annual contract, how would that work.

Its not a lump sum, payment at the end of the year type job. No doubt there is a rather detailed contract with exactly what is required.

X hours of surveys / hours of live speed checking +
Y fixed charge notices issued in the post and processed on return +
Z fixed charge notices issued in the post and processed through the courts +
+ management and overheads
and so on.

If certain targets aren't met, I'm sure there would be repurcussions.

My bet is they are betting on few or no people going to court.

Why would they think that, they are likely to have reliable information based on the Garda's own experience of what percentage of people challenge FCNs.

You have to remember the garda have being missing turning up for years, and they are supposed to be professionals.

Everyone is human. But a garda won't get paid if he doesn't show up. Neither will the camera operators.

A person would have to be in management to think a mobile camera operator would get a "performance bonus" lol.

How else would you ensure that the camera operators see things through from start to finish?

Martin72

Hi , Just wondered if anyone had any experience on this . i received in a notice that i was doing 60km in a 50km at around 8pm in the evening, had come off a stretch of road before was 80km. getting 2 points and an 80 euro fine :eek: is there no leeway at all with these new mobile speed vans. ?

Victor

No, but you were doing 20% over the limit and your indicated speed would have been about 68km/h.

gbee

Esel wrote: »

WTF? Jobs for the boys, or what! :mad:

Why are these jobs not open to everyone?

cos' erm, I probably would not turn on the camera?