The Sad Reality

craigybagel

I hate Fianna Fáil. I hate their smugness and their arrogance, I hate the way their policies destroyed the economy of the country, I hate the fact that their legacy after 13 years in power is a 3rd world health system, a crumbling education system, and public service that is a beurocratatic nightmare sucking up what little money we do have to appease the unions and FF supporters. And most of all, I hate the way unemployment levels have shot up as a result of all of the above, and the fact that as a 24 year old with a degree, I couldn't find work in Ireland and I now live in Birmingham. And that there are tens of thousands of people like me all in the same boat.

I would love to see Fianna Fáil shot down at the next election, and made to properly pay for the damage they've caused, and really feel the anger of the electorate.

But its not going to happen.

I've been lurking on the Political and General Election Boards for the last month, and I've read posts from so many people who feel the same way as me. And seen, both here and in polls, gleeful predictions that Fianna Fáil will be down to 30, maybe even into the 20's, after the election. That the likes of Mary Hanafin, Mary Coughlan, perhaps even Micheál Martin himself will lose their seats.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see that happen, but I think I need to inject some pessimism into this forum. Nobody organises an election, and galvanises the electorate, like FF does. Noone has the loyalty, especially amongst the elderly, that FF does. They've replaced Biffo with someone who is seen as being a young, hard working and popular man. He is up against what many people see as a ginger idiot, a communist, a terrorist and a vegatarian nutcase.

Come February 26th, and the results coming out, I expect to hear the phrase "the huge swing to Labour/SF/FG shown in the polls doesnt seem to be happening" quite a lot. Whilst we will still probably have a FG/Lab government, FF won't die. They are like cockroaches. 45 seats minumum.

So am I being unneccesarily pessimistic, or are the good people of boards.ie deluding themselves?

takun

I think you are being unnecessarily pessimistic. 30-35 seats tops is what I predict - and that would be on a very good day for them.

ednwireland

craigybagel wrote: »

Come February 26th, and the results coming out, I expect to hear the phrase "the huge swing to Labour/SF/FG shown in the polls doesnt seem to be happening" quite a lot. Whilst we will still probably have a FG/Lab government, FF won't die. They are like cockroaches. 45 seats minumum.

So am I being unneccesarily pessimistic, or are the good people of boards.ie deluding themselves?

actually i agree with you, what i cant beleive is anyone actually beleiving a word martin speaks, the first question back to him by every interviewer well you've been in cabinat for 14 years why are you only thinking of all this political reform , changes in gov etc etc now your about to be wiped out (one can still hope) at the polls

i moved here in 1997 and never read anything in FF manifesto that made a whole lot of sense, never any vision just a load of random populist nonesense, even lenny's emergency budgets in 2008 were lets grab a bit from here and bit from there and hope the prob goes away

craigybagel

ednwireland wrote: »

act
i moved here in 1997 and never read anything in FF manifesto that made a whole lot of sense, never any vision just a load of random populist nonesense, even lenny's emergency budgets in 2008 were lets grab a bit from here and bit from there and hope the prob goes away

Is that much different from what Labour are saying though? Or even FG for that matter. Can we expect any party to say the truth at the moment, that we're all screwed no matter who you vote?

craigybagel

Also, I forgot to say that if 17% of people are prepared to admit to strangers on the street that they will vote FF, despite the stigma surrounding FF supporters at the moment, surely there are a lot more prepared to vote in the secrecy of the booth. I suspect that most of the "undecided" votes will end up with FF.

leincar

craigybagel wrote: »

I hate Fianna Fáil. I hate their smugness and their arrogance, I hate the way their policies destroyed the economy of the country, I hate the fact that their legacy after 13 years in power is a 3rd world health system, a crumbling education system, and public service that is a beurocratatic nightmare sucking up what little money we do have to appease the unions and FF supporters. And most of all, I hate the way unemployment levels have shot up as a result of all of the above, and the fact that as a 24 year old with a degree, I couldn't find work in Ireland and I now live in Birmingham. And that there are tens of thousands of people like me all in the same boat.

I would love to see Fianna Fáil shot down at the next election, and made to properly pay for the damage they've caused, and really feel the anger of the electorate.

But its not going to happen.

I've been lurking on the Political and General Election Boards for the last month, and I've read posts from so many people who feel the same way as me. And seen, both here and in polls, gleeful predictions that Fianna Fáil will be down to 30, maybe even into the 20's, after the election. That the likes of Mary Hanafin, Mary Coughlan, perhaps even Micheál Martin himself will lose their seats.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see that happen, but I think I need to inject some pessimism into this forum. Nobody organises an election, and galvanises the electorate, like FF does. Noone has the loyalty, especially amongst the elderly, that FF does. They've replaced Biffo with someone who is seen as being a young, hard working and popular man. He is up against what many people see as a ginger idiot, a communist, a terrorist and a vegatarian nutcase.

Come February 26th, and the results coming out, I expect to hear the phrase "the huge swing to Labour/SF/FG shown in the polls doesnt seem to be happening" quite a lot. Whilst we will still probably have a FG/Lab government, FF won't die. They are like cockroaches. 45 seats minumum.

So am I being unneccesarily pessimistic, or are the good people of boards.ie deluding themselves?

You've put in print exactly what I've been thinking over the last couple of days. I really and sincerely hope we are wrong.

joulter

its a really depressing thought but you're probably right. it begs the question what would fianna fail have to do to get people to stop voting for them entirely.

ilovesleep

joulter wrote: »

its a really depressing thought but you're probably right. it begs the question what would fianna fail have to do to get people to stop voting for them entirely.

I hope the media has something up their sleeves about FF. Something real scandalous that they're sparing for next week. They cant release info too early because of soft irish jelly brains.

wellsir

its all so true...John O'Donoghue will top the poll, Willie O'dea will top the pool.
I spent the weekend in rural Ireland and whilst the vote for FF will be down it will not be as low as predicted.
FF apeal to the first instinct of man.
They also play the oppressed republican card when it suits....

Take John O'Donoghue for example, he will top the poll because those city slickers in dublin screwed him over, depsite the fact he had his nose stuck 7 inches deep in the trough, all at our expense. It defies any logic.
I want to give FG the time and i really hope they deliver what is needed.
Dont be surprised though when FF are back in government in 5 years with an overall majority.

Floppybits

OP, I unfortunately have to agree with you. I can see FF coming back over 40 seats in the next Dail. I wish I knew what could be done to change peoples mind about FF. I am 36 and I have a mate the same age and we were talking and he was saying that he will vote FF because they others cant be trusted. I asked him after everything they have done, after the fact that Brian Lenihan has got every single decision wrong since taking over as a minister of Finance and he said yes. I couldn't believe it, this is a guy now who is very intelligent runs his own business and I just cant believe it. I asked him what would FF have to do for him not to vote for them and he said that they are just the best party for running the country.

I dont know what it is really, I lived in other countries for a few years before coming home and maybe that has opened my eyes to things, this guy has never ever lived anywhere else so that maybe it but then again that is insulting everyone else who has never left the country, so who knows.:(

joulter

ilovesleep wrote: »

I hope the media has something up their sleeves about FF. Something real scandalous that they're sparing for next week. They cant release info too early because of soft irish jelly brains.

i'd love to think that that there is something massive in the pipeline, but even still there'll be plenty of their apologists that would say "ah shure there all the same" and "you cant trust the west brits in fine gael or the communists in labour"

Procasinator

I think you should rename thread 10 things I hate about Fianna Fail. I thought you were imitating the poem from the film.

I think you are right. I think staunch FF voters will stay that way. Others will be scared of change. They may be scared of parties like Labour, and might not like Kenny for FG.

It won't be a FF government, but they will do better than expected.

[Jackass]

craigybagel wrote: »

I hate Fianna Fáil. I hate their smugness and their arrogance, I hate the way their policies destroyed the economy of the country, I hate the fact that their legacy after 13 years in power is a 3rd world health system, a crumbling education system, and public service that is a beurocratatic nightmare sucking up what little money we do have to appease the unions and FF supporters. And most of all, I hate the way unemployment levels have shot up as a result of all of the above, and the fact that as a 24 year old with a degree, I couldn't find work in Ireland and I now live in Birmingham. And that there are tens of thousands of people like me all in the same boat.

I would love to see Fianna Fáil shot down at the next election, and made to properly pay for the damage they've caused, and really feel the anger of the electorate.

But its not going to happen.

I've been lurking on the Political and General Election Boards for the last month, and I've read posts from so many people who feel the same way as me. And seen, both here and in polls, gleeful predictions that Fianna Fáil will be down to 30, maybe even into the 20's, after the election. That the likes of Mary Hanafin, Mary Coughlan, perhaps even Micheál Martin himself will lose their seats.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see that happen, but I think I need to inject some pessimism into this forum. Nobody organises an election, and galvanises the electorate, like FF does. Noone has the loyalty, especially amongst the elderly, that FF does. They've replaced Biffo with someone who is seen as being a young, hard working and popular man. He is up against what many people see as a ginger idiot, a communist, a terrorist and a vegatarian nutcase.

Come February 26th, and the results coming out, I expect to hear the phrase "the huge swing to Labour/SF/FG shown in the polls doesnt seem to be happening" quite a lot. Whilst we will still probably have a FG/Lab government, FF won't die. They are like cockroaches. 45 seats minumum.

So am I being unneccesarily pessimistic, or are the good people of boards.ie deluding themselves?

I couldn't agree more. I've made posts intimating your sentiments myself, perhaps not as well put, but certainly I absolutely agree with you.

It's a terrible shame. What I want to know is, what rational, level headed, objective person could justify, in any way, shape or form a vote for FF.

I mean, these guys have a list and history of corruption and of absolute sabotage to the country when it comes to getting into power and doing whatever it takes and then abusing it to the maximum of their ability, always at the expense of the people who'll vote for them and defend them until they're in the grave, and I can't imagine who they could possibly be fu*king over more, than their most loyal supporters...

The swagger of Bertie, I hate that man, he walked away with countless questions about 30,000 euro here and 15,000 sterling there, and he twisted in the wind, denying he had bank accounts, and giving the most obscure reasons for where massive amounts of money was coming from, like he has these amazing friends who give him, literally, hundreds of thousands, as a gift, sure you're going through a divorce ya poor fella, and he's on a minister salary at the time, and is hiding one set of finances from the tax man, and another set on the wife he's cheating on...I mean, this is the calibre of guy that is celebrated as arguably, the greatest modern day FF leader, and the most successful, in terms of electorate success, in their history, and is only parallelled in the FF hall of fame and worship by Charles Haughy, the feckin Guru of blatant abuse of public office and absolute corruption. The guy stank to the high heavens of corruption and he could perhaps be forgiven for assuming his delusional personality of thinking he was a monarch to the Irish people and therefore above the law, because he was treated like that by these staunch FF supporters.

The Irish electorate are like a council estate mother who get's beaten by their heavily drinking boyfriend who keeps getting her pregnant, banging out babies and slapping her around the council flat. He's ruined her life, but she stays with him, because he's not bad underneath it, and he'll change, and it's not that bad really when you think about...

We're a nation of self loathing, opinionated stubborn morons, blinded by a loose grasp we have on junior cert level Irish history and some of us have watched Michael Collins a couple of times and we feel like dev had the right idea and we'll never surrender to the tans, and anti-treaty...from over 100 years ago now! And support for that is lining the pockets of developers and crooks in suits today, completely exploiting the stupidity of these FF supporters, who are even too stupid to realise they're the ones being made the biggest idiot out of, but defending it and supporting it, and in terms of self destruction and stupidity, is comparable to a Jew voting for Adolf Hitler, with the foresight of knowing what's going to happen, as history has proved, and then voting for him again in the future, because there is an inherent ability to learn from the mistakes of the past or to hold any shred of accountability for the actions of the past.

Fianna Fail are an absolute unadulterated cancer in Irish society, and largely have been for many periods over the last century. In modern days they've been widely documented for their corruption and incompetence, and I'd invite you to look back through the realms of Irish history and find a time when they ever really did deliver a prosperous, thriving, Irish society...

I think you'll find, that key policies, both in terms of corporation taxation and in terms of luring foreign investment into Ireland by the national bodies set up to do so, and of which were the absolute corner stone of boom time Ireland, were not in fact FF policies, they were just policies that were introduced by the coalition Government who were cleaning up the sh*t left behind by FF after their last long stint in Government, when they ran the country into the ground, and of course, they were the ones to reap the rewards of the policies put in place, and by god did they take advantage of it, at the absolute detriment of the country also...

I could go on and on...but, IF you are a FF supporter, and it's been in your family for years, and your great grandfather died in the civil war, I'd say fair play to you for your families passion and involvement in Irish history, but the political parties of today are verrry different to the ones of that day, and I can assure you that the men on BOTH sides of the liffey who fought and died for their beliefs, did not fight for a nation that willingly gave law making ability and banking structure decisions amongst countless other rights of a free republic to a universal European Government, and it has served us very well, and the republican party of FF (again, not the ones who tabled the motion for Irish involvement in the E.U. - and again, one of the greatest political decisions made in our history with regards to delivering prosperity) did not object to this one bit, and reaped allllll the rewards, yet again...

So times have changed....now there are a bunch of sleaze bags in suits living off your loyalty to something that doesn't exist any more, so think about all they've done, and try and clear your mind and make a clear and balanced decision, and I'm sure you may open your eyes a little bit...

takun

Floppybits wrote: »

I asked him what would FF have to do for him not to vote for them and he said that they are just the best party for running the country.

I swear there is a FF gene. Or as good as.

There are people who are brought up from the cradle to believe that they ARE Fianna Fail. It's like "You are human, you are Irish, you are Fianna Fail". It's not an option or something that can be questioned or changed, it's just an incontrovertible fact.

The other parties are, well, 'other'. Not like you, not like us. They can never be considered. That's why there is a base below which the FF vote can never fall.

However, I know, from talking to some of them (mostly in the older age group that FF so rely on) that many of them are in despair about the state of the country. BUT they will not, cannot, vote against FF. Quite a few will just stay home, not voting at all, or post empty ballot papers, since as they see it there is nothing to vote for if you are not voting FF.

However this does NOT mean they apportion any blame to FF. On the contrary, they see them as having been unfortunate by being in power when terrible events were thrust upon them. They want them spared any more torture, and to let the 'other' see how much they like having to deal with the mess.

In good time they believe FF will return triumphant to their rightful place and all will again be restored to the natural order.

joulter

^^ That is definitely true. there are alot of people brought up on the myth that fianna fail is ireland and ireland is fianna fail. they can't get out of that way of thinking and feel a vote for someone else is almost unpatriotic.

Another reason for their success is irish peoples utter refusal to learn from history. People keep voting for ff no matter how many times they flush the country down the toilet.

There'll be plenty of people that will be fooled by the change of leader even though he was complicit in and cheerleaded every crap decision they have made over the last 14 years

breadandjam

craigybagel wrote: »

So am I being unneccesarily pessimistic, or are the good people of boards.ie deluding themselves?

No sadly you're right I think. Fine Gael and Labour aren't doing themselves any favours either- they're treating the result as a foregone conclusion which it isn't.

craigybagel

ilovesleep wrote: »

I hope the media has something up their sleeves about FF. Something real scandalous that they're sparing for next week. They cant release info too early because of soft irish jelly brains.

The papers, the Mail especially, have been dripping FF scandal for years, to little effect, John o Donaghue and Trevor Sargent aside. And what about Bertiegate, just before the last election? I'd love there to be something juicy out there but its never made a difference in the past with the sheep.

Procasinator wrote: »

I think you should rename thread 10 things I hate about Fianna Fail. I thought you were imitating the poem from the film.

I think you are right. I think staunch FF voters will stay that way. Others will be scared of change. They may be scared of parties like Labour, and might not like Kenny for FG.

It won't be a FF government, but they will do better than expected.

I was tempted to do something along those lines, but there's no shortage of Anti FF threads on boards, I'd only be preaching to the converted!

[Jackass] wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. I've made posts intimating your sentiments myself, perhaps not as well put, but certainly I absolutely agree with you.

Actually, I'd say you phrased it much better than I ever could!

breadandjam wrote: »

Fine Gael and Labour aren't doing themselves any favours either- they're treating the result as a foregone conclusion which it isn't.

And this is the most depressing aspect of all. For all this talk of how stupid people are for voting FF, the opposition are hardly all that palatable at the moment either. The alternatives being Inda, or the relatively unknown but somewhat suspicious left wing, are another reason that I can't see how Fianna Fáil can do all that badly.

breadandjam

There was item on RTE radio today about 6.30 Philp Boucher Hayes was talking to some people on a voter participation class and one woman (I'm paraphrasing) said "They're after making the mess we're in so I'm going to give them the chance to get us out of it"
Boucher Hayes was gobsmacked "You're going to vote for Fianna Fail?"
"Yes I think so anyway" she said and this was after the Voter participation class!
http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2011/pc/pod-v-4m55s070211drivetime-pid0-295272.mp3

craigybagel

breadandjam wrote: »

There was item on RTE radio today about 6.30 Philp Boucher Hayes was talking to some people on a voter participation class and one woman (I'm paraphrasing) said "They're after making the mess we're in so I'm going to give them the chance to get us out of it"
Boucher Hayes was gobsmacked "You're going to vote for Fianna Fail?"
"Yes I think so anyway" she said and this was after the Voter participation class!
http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2011/pc/pod-v-4m55s070211drivetime-pid0-295272.mp3

And unfortunately, she almost certainly won't be the last!

tickeyboo

I have just finished looking at a program about the Nuremberg trials on TV.
I believe that it would be a good idea if we could do the same for Biffo, and his cabinet, and of course the likes of the bankers and not forgetting the genius that ran FAS, Roddy something or other.
The article about Ireland in Vanity Fair is one of the most frighting predictions about Ireland that I have read in a long time.
To see the ex ministers walk away with up to a third of a million Euros makes my blood boil.

Colm R

The sad reality is that it will take more than 5 years to fix this mess. FF will be back with an overall majority after that because its all the fault of FG/LAB.

EKRIUQ

Just to agree with the OP, same sentiments and I've been saying that from the beginning. People forget very quickly and even in the last 2 weeks hoards of people are moving back to FF. I hate when people say "I've been voting FF all my life but I'm not going to this time". I just think bullshiit your going to vote for them again this time aswell.

ednwireland

craigybagel wrote: »

Is that much different from what Labour are saying though? Or even FG for that matter. Can we expect any party to say the truth at the moment, that we're all screwed no matter who you vote?

the point is FF should not be rewarded for their mistakes at the ballot box, you screw up you get punished thats how it is (except in banks, politics , civil service etc,etc)

SafeSurfer

craigybagel wrote: »

He is up against what many people see as a ginger idiot, a communist, a terrorist and a vegatarian nutcase.QUOTE]

I doubt may people would see it in those terms or choose to vote for a political party based on the leader's hair colour, vegetarianism etc.

SafeSurfer

Colm R wrote: »

The sad reality is that it will take more than 5 years to fix this mess. FF will be back with an overall majority after that because its all the fault of FG/LAB.

I think the days of overall majorities in this country are over. They have been very rare and have not occurred in the past 34 years.

I believe we may see a change in Irish politics to a more classic left/right axis with FF/FG on one side and Labour/Sinn Fein/ULA on the other. It may be a few elections away yet but it will happen.

one eye

How can anyone possibly vote FF. The stomach churning weasel words of both Martin and Hanafin trying to justify their determination to grasp their vast unearned golden handshakes.
Try asking anyone on the lower rungs of the ladder whose earning potential (if they have a job) has been decimated.
The unedifying interview with Bertram Wilberforce (Wooster), sorry, Ahern when he turned on his former friends and blamed them for the debacle. Bertie knew exactly what was coming down the line when he baled out and left Cowan in the poop. Don't feel sorry for Cowan he was equally aware of the impending doom but the lure of the top job was too much for someone of his background to resist. (Look Ma, Made it, top of the world. (Jimmy Cagney [White Heat])
Lenihan as Minister For Finance has never made one prediction that has come to fruition, undoubtedly the worst Finance Minister in the history of the State.
The massed ranks of dying Ministers and TD's lining up for their inflated pensions and golden handshakes was mind numbing in its cynicism.
That the party of cute hoorism will will get some seats is a testament to the stupidity of the Irish electorate and evidence that 'civil war' politics is alive and well in this benighted island.

one eye

How can anyone possibly vote FF. The stomach churning weasel words of both Martin and Hanafin trying to justify their determination to grasp their vast unearned golden handshakes.
Try asking anyone on the lower rungs of the ladder whose earning potential (if they have a job) has been decimated.
The unedifying interview with Bertram Wilberforce (Wooster), sorry, Ahern when he turned on his former friends and blamed them for the debacle. Bertie knew exactly what was coming down the line when he baled out and left Cowan in the poop. Don't feel sorry for Cowan he was equally aware of the impending doom but the lure of the top job was too much for someone of his background to resist. (Look Ma, Made it, top of the world. (Jimmy Cagney [White Heat])
Lenihan as Minister For Finance has never made one prediction that has come to fruition, undoubtedly the worst Finance Minister in the history of the State.
The massed ranks of dying Ministers and TD's lining up for their inflated pensions and golden handshakes was mind numbing in its cynicism.
That the party of cute hoorism will will get some seats is a testament to the stupidity of the Irish electorate and evidence that 'civil war' politics is alive and well in this benighted island.

up them Schteps

[Jackass] wrote: »

The Irish electorate are like a council estate mother who get's beaten by their heavily drinking boyfriend who keeps getting her pregnant, banging out babies and slapping her around the council flat. He's ruined her life, but she stays with him, because he's not bad underneath it, and he'll change, and it's not that bad really when you think about...

I think your crossing a line there jackass!

I personally will be voting FF for the reasons that I do not feel Enda Kenny will run the country as well as he thinks he will (I think Enda is like a little boy right now, can see the finish line and is just talking the talk until he is in power and will end up bringing in the same policies as FF) and I do not want labour in government as I disagree with their policies, I obviously have other reasons based on the parties policies but I'm focussing now on the general points. In the last few weeks boards has just turned into a FF bashing website were the same opinions come up over and over again.

I know this has been mentioned earlier in the thread but if were all being rational and logical creatures and remove all personal connections to the way the country was run, can you honestly say FG/LAB wouldn't of done the same thing as FF....? I mean back in 06/07 FF were being crucified by the opposition as they weren't spending enough and now FG/LAB are praying these comment aren't brought up again. The Irish electorate forget these things so easily. I put the question to boards.ie members, and don't just flog me here cause it will get you thanks etc, but Do you honestly believe FG/LAB wouldn't of done the same thing as FF if they were in power? I believe the answer would be yes!

catbear

The only way to dislodge FF from their cosy corner is if postal votes are allowed. That's one thing I hope will happen.

I do agree with the OP in general but I do wonder about after the election. Property taxes are coming in some shape or form. It would be very hard for any FFer to say that they'd repeal property taxes but just saying it is enough for a craven voter.

The thing that I find most baffling about FF supporters is that when they give out about the bankers, they fail to see that the bankers were allowed and even encouraged by the FF government; bail outs and loose financial regulation!

I hope there's something darwinian happening here. FF voters are lazy thinkers and lazy thinkers are soon overtaken by poverty.

johnie89

up them Schteps wrote: »

Do you honestly believe FG/LAB wouldn't of done the same thing as FF if they were in power? I believe the answer would be yes!

I cant see labor taking on the debts of the banking system the way FF have.

No other country issued a blanket guarantee the way we have, because most other governments aren't as stupid as FF.

Ordinary deposits in all banks were guaranteed and that should have been it.

AIB and Anglo Irish should have been allowed to fall. And the only cost to the state would be the ordinary citizen's deposits (The cost is still in billions, but far less than the overall guarantee).

Iceland allowed their bank to fail, and they are seeing real signs of recovery now.

one eye

After 14 years of FF mis rule I doubt if FG/Lab could have done any worse. This country is ruined and our children will have to leave. They have lost their homeland and I have lost my family.

craigybagel

SafeSurfer wrote: »

craigybagel wrote: »

He is up against what many people see as a ginger idiot, a communist, a terrorist and a vegatarian nutcase.QUOTE]

I doubt may people would see it in those terms or choose to vote for a political party based on the leader's hair colour, vegetarianism etc.

Obviously that statement was something of an exaggeration, but lets face it, the alternatives to FF aren't all that great, are they?

takun

craigybagel wrote: »

Obviously that statement was something of an exaggeration, but lets face it, the alternatives to FF aren't all that great, are they?

Maybe not, but even so a number of them are vastly preferable.

craigybagel

takun wrote: »

Maybe not, but even so a number of them are vastly preferable.

Oh indeed. What I think of Cowen and co is a lot worse than the terms I used for the others! But they are another reason I worry about the results of this election, and the odds of a seemingly surprisingly strong FF performance.

one eye

Hi all. My point is that a lot of people anticipate a FF wipeout.
History teaches us that there is solid core vote for FF, and despite what they say in polls or interviews, come election day they will put the 'X' beside the FF candidate. That one particular candidate in a western constituency was in effect guilty of perjury is expected to be returned to the Dail, instead of being in jail.

craigybagel

one eye wrote: »

Hi all. My point is that a lot of people anticipate a FF wipeout.
History teaches us that there is solid core vote for FF, and despite what they say in polls or interviews, come election day they will put the 'X' beside the FF candidate. That one particular candidate in a western constituency was in effect guilty of perjury is expected to be returned to the Dail, instead of being in jail.

And that is going to be the big question of this election. How badly will the FF vote collapse? How much of the core FF vote will change their minds? That question will decide this whole election.

Sir Oxman

Don't forget, FF have been in power for most of the past 85 years - that's a lot of time to dole out patronage and indulge in clientelism and embed their 'own' in all levels of society and this when coupled with their populist policies and everyman promises to get and retain power at all costs is first amongst the reasons why there is this 'core' FF vote - grubby vote-getting meets grubby Irish voter=FF

fat__tony

up them Schteps wrote: »

I think your crossing a line there jackass!

I personally will be voting FF for the reasons that I do not feel Enda Kenny will run the country as well as he thinks he will (I think Enda is like a little boy right now, can see the finish line and is just talking the talk until he is in power and will end up bringing in the same policies as FF) and I do not want labour in government as I disagree with their policies, I obviously have other reasons based on the parties policies but I'm focussing now on the general points. In the last few weeks boards has just turned into a FF bashing website were the same opinions come up over and over again.

I know this has been mentioned earlier in the thread but if were all being rational and logical creatures and remove all personal connections to the way the country was run, can you honestly say FG/LAB wouldn't of done the same thing as FF....? I mean back in 06/07 FF were being crucified by the opposition as they weren't spending enough and now FG/LAB are praying these comment aren't brought up again. The Irish electorate forget these things so easily. I put the question to boards.ie members, and don't just flog me here cause it will get you thanks etc, but Do you honestly believe FG/LAB wouldn't of done the same thing as FF if they were in power? I believe the answer would be yes!

Is that the best you can do? Thats the best reason you can come up not to vote for FG because you view Enda Kenny as a little boy?

Absolutely pathetic reasoning and typical of the idiotic mindset which still plagues the country. FG have stated their policies already but you've probably ignored them and focused purely on Enda's personality.

As for the rest of your post, you really are clutching at straws in terms of credibility. FF won the 07 election, they were in power and they made all the abysmal decisions over the past 4 years, not FG/Labour.

Pal

I think the country is going to end up with some seriously inept/undesirable people getting elected if the poll on boards.ie is to be believed.

Quite worrying. Don't want to personalise it but Dublin West and Dublin Central are good examples of unorthodox voting patterns leading to a poorer representation for us all.

Sir Oxman

Pal wrote: »

I think the country is going to end up with some seriously inept/undesirable people getting elected if the poll on boards.ie is to be believed.

Quite worrying. Don't want to personalise it but Dublin West and Dublin Central are good examples of unorthodox voting patterns leading to a poorer representation for us all.

I don't understand when you say 'unorthodox voting patterns' in relation to Dublin Central.
The FF vote is understated, Workers Party and Greens overstated.
FG and SF and Labour are in line with Sindo poll published today for DubC:

Sindo Poll Excluding Don't Knows (boards poll)

Lab 30% (32%)
FG 24% (22%)
FF 16% (5%)
SF 13% (14%)
Ind 16% (23%)>(inc 7% WP)
GP 1% (4%)

LoanShark

I think FF will come out way better than what is being predicted.. I would also put it on the table that I believe the next government will be FF/FG with Enda running the show...Out of all the policies that is being talked about theirs seem to be more achievable and easier to implement..

And For the record... I will be voting FF and I am also unhappy with the way things have gone in this country for the last number of years.. I think Enda will make a good taoiseach and he deserves the chance to run the country, when you look at the way he rebuilt Fine Gael to the party they are now... thats just my input..

Sir Oxman

Kenny has ruled out any coalition with FF or SF today.

I think it would be a very foolish FG to rely on FF support for a FG minority government if it comes down to that.

ilovesleep

gambiaman wrote: »

Don't forget, FF have been in power for most of the past 85 years - that's a lot of time to dole out patronage and indulge in clientelism and embed their 'own' in all levels of society and this when coupled with their populist policies and everyman promises to get and retain power at all costs is first amongst the reasons why there is this 'core' FF vote - grubby vote-getting meets grubby Irish voter=FF

I think you are right. IMO the FF fanbase would be of the older generation, who grew up in extreme proverty. For the first time in their lifes they saw growth and wealth under FF (but started by FG/LAB) and bertie called it the celtic tiger. But as we now know FFs time was all a farce built on lies and deceit.

Aishae

When Cowan stepped down as leader of FF (but remained as Taoiseach) saying it was for the good of the party; i wondered if this was a well orchestrated move to get a fresh face leading FF into the election as Cowan and co. knew if he stayed they might be in trouble.
everything that has happened since - and even in the run up to the fiasco in the Dail around the time of the resignations - tells me 'yes, it seems they are too wise to way the public works' because they know - that by getting rid of some deadwood and appearing all fresh faced it will make a portion of the electorate believe it's a changed party.

eg - in how many constituencies did an FF'er step down to give another FF'er in the constituency a better chance?
its all about the good of the party.

when they made the 4 year plan and the accepted the bail out they knew the incoming government would have to deal with it. so whoever that was wouldnt be popular and they could bounce back at the NEXT election instead. possibly saying 'i told you so' they know the majority will forget about what happened. they have too many spin doctors and advisors.....

going by recent days though - the sad truth is they might do better than expected. some people just dont have a grasp on politics and they dont want to but they still feel they should vote and its usually the FF supporters.

craigybagel

And it makes me very happy. Thank you Ireland!

Laois_Man

In the same way as we can say in hindsight that whoever was to win the last election in 07 was gonna be in for i hiding in the election following the 08 worldwide crisis, in my opinion, we can say with foresight that the team who wins this election will get a similar hiding in 2016 if this government survives that long. So in my opinion, you will be looking at Taoiseach Martin then!

colsmiff

Well it looks like the OP was overlly pesimistic, FF /GP wiped out with 31 of the sitting TDs kicked with half the seats declared, FG and Labour replacing them , with support from SF and INDs. WHat we actually need now is an emergency govt, using the best from every party and show a united front to the ECB/IMF

danger man

craigybagel wrote: »

I hate Fianna Fáil. I hate their smugness and their arrogance, I hate the way their policies destroyed the economy of the country, I hate the fact that their legacy after 13 years in power is a 3rd world health system, a crumbling education system, and public service that is a beurocratatic nightmare sucking up what little money we do have to appease the unions and FF supporters. And most of all, I hate the way unemployment levels have shot up as a result of all of the above, and the fact that as a 24 year old with a degree, I couldn't find work in Ireland and I now live in Birmingham. And that there are tens of thousands of people like me all in the same boat.

I would love to see Fianna Fáil shot down at the next election, and made to properly pay for the damage they've caused, and really feel the anger of the electorate.

But its not going to happen.

I've been lurking on the Political and General Election Boards for the last month, and I've read posts from so many people who feel the same way as me. And seen, both here and in polls, gleeful predictions that Fianna Fáil will be down to 30, maybe even into the 20's, after the election. That the likes of Mary Hanafin, Mary Coughlan, perhaps even Micheál Martin himself will lose their seats.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see that happen, but I think I need to inject some pessimism into this forum. Nobody organises an election, and galvanises the electorate, like FF does. Noone has the loyalty, especially amongst the elderly, that FF does. They've replaced Biffo with someone who is seen as being a young, hard working and popular man. He is up against what many people see as a ginger idiot, a communist, a terrorist and a vegatarian nutcase.

Come February 26th, and the results coming out, I expect to hear the phrase "the huge swing to Labour/SF/FG shown in the polls doesnt seem to be happening" quite a lot. Whilst we will still probably have a FG/Lab government, FF won't die. They are like cockroaches. 45 seats minumum.

So am I being unneccesarily pessimistic, or are the good people of boards.ie deluding themselves?

terrorist ?? who is a terrorist ?

craigybagel

colsmiff wrote: »

Well it looks like the OP was overlly pesimistic, FF /GP wiped out with 31 of the sitting TDs kicked with half the seats declared, FG and Labour replacing them , with support from SF and INDs. WHat we actually need now is an emergency govt, using the best from every party and show a united front to the ECB/IMF

Thats why I bumped this post back up last night, I was the OP who was overly pessimistic and I wanted to enjoy being proved wrong. Given the quality of the remaining TD's in this dail, I would say that the best from every party would leave you only with mostly FG ministers, and a small amount from Lab. Which is what we're going to get anyway.