Driving too slow on Motor-way.

Twin-go

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Man-in-Limerick-court-for.6712889.jp

I DON'T think I've ever seen a prosecution for somebody driving too slow," said Judge Tom O'Donnell as a man who was driving a tractor on the motorway outside Limerick was let off with a warning.
Shane Jones, 24, and with an address Knocksentry, Lisnagry, was issued with a summons for driving too slowly on the motorway at Ballysimon on July 10 of last year.

He was detected by a member of the Garda Traffic Corps while driving his tractor on the Southern Ring Road.

A minimum speed limit of 50 kilometres per hour applies to Irish motorways.

Mr Jones told Judge O'Donnell that he was "driving home to Ahane" at the time and the only other route he could have taken on the day was through the city.

The judge said it was the first case of its type he had seen.

"Keep this vehicle off the motorway in future," the judge warned Mr Jones as he struck the matter out.

He broke 2 rules of the road in driving less than 50km/h on a Motor-way (that's 70km/h below the limit) and driving a prohibited vehicle namely a tractor on a motor-way and the judge throws it out.
Fare play for the Traffic Corp for bringing it to court. Pity the judge didn't see fit to slap 4 penelty points and a fine on him too. Driving at such a low speed in a tractor on a Motor-way is every bit as dangerous as doing excessive speed and should be delt with similary.
Boo flipping hoo he'd of had to go through the City if he didn't use the M-way. Stick it on a Flatbeded truck FFS.

tobsey

Nothing wrong with a tractor on a motorway, so long as it's doing over 50kph.

Edit: Nothing illegal, right or wrong is a diffferent matter.

Mitch Connor

tobsey wrote: »

Nothing wrong with a tractor on a motorway, so long as it's doing over 50kph.

Edit: Nothing illegal, right or wrong is a diffferent matter.

It is unlikely to be.

To qualify to use agri-diesel it would have to be limited below 50kmph - so it is highly unlikely that the tractor would legally have been able to do the minimum speed limit.

Atomic Pineapple

Another case of a Garda doing something properly and then the courts letting him/her down :mad:

Seth Brundle

Twin-go wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Man-in-Limerick-court-for.6712889.jp



He broke 2 rules of the road in driving less than 50km/h on a Motor-way (that's 70km/h below the limit) and driving a prohibited vehicle namely a tractor on a motor-way and the judge throws it out.
Fare play for the Traffic Corp for bringing it to court. Pity the judge didn't see fit to slap 4 penelty points and a fine on him too. Driving at such a low speed in a tractor on a Motor-way is every bit as dangerous as doing excessive speed and should be delt with similary.
Boo flipping hoo he'd of had to go through the City if he didn't use the M-way. Stick it on a Flatbeded truck FFS.

I too presume its the case but the article doesn't actually state that he was driving below the minimum speed limit.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

To qualify to use agri-diesel it would have to be limited below 50kmph - so it is highly unlikely that the tractor would legally have been able to do the minimum speed limit.

I wasn't aware of this - have you a source?

Mitch Connor

kbannon wrote: »

I too presume its the case but the article doesn't actually state that he was driving below the minimum speed limit.

I wasn't aware of this - have you a source?

Was said to me by farmer friends.

Found this, but only mentions the tractor being geared for slower speeds:

http://www.ifa.ie/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=oTc_dWIlb0o%3D&tabid=654&mid=2536

Will continue to look.

Padraig Mor

Article is partly incorrect - there is NO minimum speed on Irish motorways (wish there was!) - a vehicle must simply be CAPABLE of driving in excess of 50 km/h, which would include most/all tractors. Further, I don't think there is any speed restriction on vehicles in Ireland using agri diesel. There is however in the UK, who essentially use it to prevent tractors on motorways, i.e. vehicles using agri diesel are prohibited from doing more than 30 MPH (ish); there is a minimum speed of 35 MPH (ish) on motorways there - therefore any vehicle using agri diesel is automatically excluded from motorways.

stevenmu

And this is exactly why I complain about the RSA focusing so much on targeting "young male" drivers as opposed to pure bad driver behaviour.

This is every bit as dangerous as a young male driving above the speed limit, and yet he's let off with a warning where a young male driver who was speeding would have been (rightly) penalised.

The RSA, despite having done many things which are good for road safety, are also fostering an attitude that as long as you're not a young drunk high male speeding in a "souped up" opel corsa then you can pretty much do whatever you like.

Viper_JB

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Article is partly incorrect - there is NO minimum speed on Irish motorways (wish there was!) - a vehicle must simply be CAPABLE of driving in excess of 50 km/h, which would include most/all tractors. Further, I don't think there is any speed restriction on vehicles in Ireland using agri diesel. There is however in the UK, who essentially use it to prevent tractors on motorways, i.e. vehicles using agri diesel are prohibited from doing more than 30 MPH (ish); there is a minimum speed of 35 MPH (ish) on motorways there - therefore any vehicle using agri diesel is automatically excluded from motorways.

That may be true but surely he could be done for dangerous driving, the highest chance of having a serious accident on the road is when there is a large difference in the speed of the traffic. In this case the farmer created that situation with out any need to do so.

the_syco

Apart from a tractor, what other motorway going vehicle has no bumpers, that allows the reduction of impact in a crash?

Seth Brundle

Many trucks (e.g. dumpers) don't have a rear bumber.

si_guru

the_syco wrote: »

Apart from a tractor, what other motorway going vehicle has no bumpers, that allows the reduction of impact in a crash?

Motorcycle?

pegasus1

kbannon wrote: »

Many trucks (e.g. dumpers) don't have a rear bumber.

Yes but they do have a crash bar at the back end to stop one from burying the car in under the truck

Testament1

Mitch Connor wrote: »

To qualify to use agri-diesel it would have to be limited below 50kmph - so it is highly unlikely that the tractor would legally have been able to do the minimum speed limit.

Eh what? Theres plenty of tractors out there capable of 50 km/h. We have a Deutz at home that does 56km/h. Also just look at the JCB Fastrac, they have a model thats capable of 80km/h (which would match the speed that some people drive on the motorway )

Anan1

Testament1 wrote: »

Eh what? Theres plenty of tractors out there capable of 50 km/h. We have a Deutz at home that does 56km/h. Also just look at the JCB Fastrac, they have a model thats capable of 80km/h (which would match the speed that some people drive on the motorway )

Is it legal for them to use agri-diesel?

AugustusMinimus

Anan1 wrote: »

Is it legal for them to use agri-diesel?

I was under the impression that it's totally illegal to use any vehicle with agri diesel on a public road, but tractors and other agricultural vehicle are allowed by concession.

Testament1

Anan1 wrote: »

Is it legal for them to use agri-diesel?

I had never heard anything about it being illegal until this thread. As they are still agricultural vehicles regardless of their speed then I dont see why it would be illegal for them to use agri-diesel.

Atomic Pineapple

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I was under the impression that it's totally illegal to use any vehicle with agri diesel on a public road, but tractors and other agricultural vehicle are allowed by concession.

As I was I.

The Nutty M

Anan1 wrote: »

Is it legal for them to use agri-diesel?

As of yet it is still legal for tractors to use agri diesel but it's about to change.Minister Dempsey is rumoured to have signed off on legislation reducing the maximum speed of an agri vechicle to 40kmh before he disappeared into the sunset.As previously said,the man in the tractor broke no rules of the road.His vechicle was capable of achieving 50kmh to be on a motorway.

Viper_JB wrote: »

.That may be true but surely he could be done for dangerous driving, the highest chance of having a serious accident on the road is when there is a large difference in the speed of the traffic. In this case the farmer created that situation with out any need to do so..

The man created no situation that an alert driver should not be able to anticipate or see.About the only rule that makes sense in this country is the little rule stating if you run up the back of something,you are at fault.Without due care and attention should be brought to the doorstep of any driver than would run up the back of him.

Testament1 wrote: »

I had never heard anything about it being illegal until this thread. As they are still agricultural vehicles regardless of their speed then I dont see why it would be illegal for them to use agri-diesel.

They are agri vechicles but there is a lobby group in Ireland,namely the IRHA,pushing bigtime for the elimination of agricultural vechicles taking what they deem to be the work for hackers.The easiest way to do this is to make it economically unviable for agri contractors to justify the added expense of running white diesel,paying commercial tax,getting a haulage licence,fitting tractors with tacho's,bringing drivers under the WTD and a few other things.It's a complete farce that the guards wasted the courts time in attempting to bring a case to court knowing that the regulations regarding agri vechicle usage is such a grey area.

Twin-go

The Nutty M wrote: »

It's a complete farce that the guards wasted the courts time in attempting to bring a case to court knowing that the regulations regarding agri vechicle usage is such a grey area.

It's a complete disgrace that farmers get away with dirving under 50km/h on a road designed for 120km/h. the potencial difference in speed as well as the size/shape of a tractor makes it a dangerous situation.

If farmers need to move a tractor a distance that would involve use of motorways they should use a flatbed trailer.

On a related topic, I wonder how many acidents are caused by Agri vehicles on Irish roads.

• Slow moving tractors on R or L roads and some N roads not pulling over and letting traffic past. People taking risks over taking them.
• Mud and sh1t been deposited on roads by tractors leading to reduced grip.
• Trails of hay been blown all over the road while been transported.

We need to reduce the risks involved is driving as well has driver behaivour.

Bumpstop

I don't get this.
A slow moving vehicle anywhere might be annoying, but if it's going to cause anyone to crash, they should re examine the way that they drive.
There could be many slow moving things out there on the motorway, sheep, cows, ostriches once, broken down vehicles.
surley vigilence when driving is utmost, and only driving to the limit of what they can see, not expecting people to speed out of their way.

The Nutty M

Fully agree with you Bumpstop,the mentality of the typical Irish driver is hilarious when it comes to interpretations of the law.
A man overtakes a vechicle when it's not safe to do so and crashes into oncoming traffic,who does he blame,the slow moving vechicle for not getting out of his way.It's beyond a joke the driving standard in Ireland.

**Timbuk2**

I'm probably wrong, but isn't it better to have slow moving vehicles on a 2+ lane motorway than on a single-carraigeway N road? It's a lot safer to overtake on dual-carraigeway roads. On single carraigeway roads, people may take risks to overtake - into oncoming traffic.

I'm sure the potential danger arises from the speed difference, but is there a whole lot of difference between 100km/h and 120km/h? 100km/h is still very fast. Remember that on the motorway drivers should be scanning ahead as far as possible - if planned correctly, one shouldn't need to break at all as they can move out to overtake in anticipation.

Although how a tractor merges onto a motorway doing 50km/h into traffic doing 120km/h is beyond me - that sounds fatally dangerous :eek:

pegasus1

I saw not so long ago an ordinary tractor pulling a regular 40ft container:eek:....
this was on the N25 not far from dungarvan on the way to waterford...he had a looong queue behind him!!

Twin-go

Read this from the Rules of the Road and tell me have you ever seen a farmer not follow them.

http://www.rotr.ie/respecting-other-road-users/other-road-users_agricultural-machinery.html

<H2>Tractors

Tractors are governed by normal road traffic laws on driver licensing, insurance, motor tax and vehicle lighting.
All tractors used in a public place must be fitted with safety frames. The purpose of the frame is to protect the driver from being crushed underneath if the tractor overturns. The frame must comply with approved standards.
It is up to the owner or driver to fit a safety cab.
Tractors must carefully transport loose material such as silage, slurry, sand or gravel, so that the material does not spill onto a public road and cause a crash. Loads of lime or other dusty materials, offal or other offensive material must be fully covered with a tarpaulin.
Farmers using agricultural tractors and trailers to haul agricultural produce must not:

• use exceptionally high frames on trailers which could endanger the stability, steering and braking of an agricultural tractor and trailer combination, or
• exceed the maximum legally permissible combination weight or the design gross vehicle weight. .

Tractors on the road

A tractor used in a public place must obey the laws governing road traffic.
If you are driving a tractor, you should keep left to let faster traffic pass. Your driving mirror must provide an adequate view of the road to the back.
Do not carry a passenger unless the tractor is equipped to carry one

pegasus1

isnt there also something about pulling in if there is more than 3 cars behind the tractor?

The Nutty M

pegasus1 wrote: »

isnt there also something about pulling in if there is more than 3 cars behind the tractor?

No;)

-Corkie-

I cannot believe the judge let him off. He is probably a red neck himself..

billyboy01

I saw an unmarked squad car and two gardai writting up a thick that was driving a tractor and pulling a trailler with machinery on the Southbound side of the M50 between Knocklyon and Dundrum a few nights ago! Madness!

slimjimmc

-Corkie- wrote: »

I cannot believe the judge let him off. He is probably a red neck himself..

What offence(s) do you think he committed and under which law(s)?

Vehicle capable of reaching 50km/h? - check, meet's the minimum performance capability for motorway use.
Minimum motorway speed limit? - no such thing, there's no legal requirement to actually drive above 50km/h.
Obstructing traffic - Nope, there's an overtaking lane for traffic to go around him freely without hindrance.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a law against this, just that there currently are no laws preventing a tractor (or any other vehicle not explicitly banned) that can be safely driven at 51km/h on a motorway.

billyboy01

In most EU country's Agri and Construction vehicles have to be transported by truck and trailer if they are to be transported on Motorways or long distances. But anything goes in this Bogtrotter country!:rolleyes:

-Corkie-

I know what you mean Jim but it is madness that it is allowed to carry on..

dr.fuzzenstein

billyboy01 wrote: »

In most EU country's Agri and Construction vehicles have to be transported by truck and trailer if they are to be transported on Motorways or long distances. But anything goes in this Bogtrotter country!:rolleyes:

Absolutely.
One day I want to buy a tractor/1987 Ford Fiesta/ cattle trailer and 5 bullocks.
Wearing a flat cap and smoking a fag I will then proceed to drive everywhere at 15 km/h with a massive sign at the back saying "I HAVE A GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO BE ON THE ROAD!", whilst blocking everyone from overtaking me by taking up as much space as possible and moving out as far as I can. And driving in the right hand lane on motorways of course.
And when I get prosecuted I'll arrange for a tractor blockade of Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and every other town in Ireland.
And when I lose I'll take my case to Europe and start a hunger strike.
Have I got that about right?

Salvation

Well today I had a situation where a female driver and a male passenger on the M1 were in the overtaking lane doing between 80 and 90 kmph.

I was behind them with a long line of traffic (about 1 km or so)

I flashed them twice and they would not move, eventhough I was not tailgating etc.

When i managed to get a break in the traffic to move into the left lane, the male passenger then used a camera phone to picture/video me.

Should I goto the police about that ??

Or should I just let it go, as people like that can easily cause as many accidents as a speeding motorist.

johnthemull

Like many things in this ****hole of a country the sad fact that a shocking amount of its inhabitants dont know how to use dual carriageways or motorways is in my view unalterable. I have decided to accept the status quo and I now undertake cluster **** processions like you have described as a matter of course. The guards dont seem to give a damn about addressing this problem. What is it about Irish people? In my view their ignorant, inconsiderate,narrow minded, self righteous traits shine brightly in their driving. I personally am completely sickened by driving behaviour in this country. I would consider driving at 100 mph on a motorway given the correct conditions a lot safer than the idiot in the overtaking lane doing 60mph and causing a train of frustration to build up behind.
Let the idiot with the camera drift away in your mind. The guards wont take that seriously if he tries to grass you up for undertaking.
Who presented the greater danger. You concentrating on driving or ****o trying out for youve been framed?

Salvation

Yeah I agree, I have drove on the autobahns at nearly 200kmph legally and found driving less hazardous.

And on every point your right, so people are just bad and ignorant and badly trained

paddymacsporran

A major publicity and awareness campaign is needed urgently.

The M50 is terrible for middle lane cruisers, taxi drivers are pretty poor at that or sitting in the outside lane - I use the airport a lot and driver round the M50 early in the morning on weekdays, its a joke!

Instead of watch your speed or wear a seatbelt on the gantry signs, howabout 'return to the left after overtaking or get to the left and out of a law abiding motorists way ya culchie feckwit'

*For law awbiding i mean doing MY speed limit of 120kph....

dr.fuzzenstein

Salvation wrote: »

Well today I had a situation where a female driver and a male passenger on the M1 were in the overtaking lane doing between 80 and 90 kmph.

I was behind them with a long line of traffic (about 1 km or so)

I flashed them twice and they would not move, eventhough I was not tailgating etc.

When i managed to get a break in the traffic to move into the left lane, the male passenger then used a camera phone to picture/video me.

Should I goto the police about that ??

Or should I just let it go, as people like that can easily cause as many accidents as a speeding motorist.

Strictly speaking you are in the wrong since you passed them on the inside, as much as it pains me to say that (and it does).
That sort of thing used to happen in Germany too as soon as video cameras came out.
People would either sit in the overtaking lane at slow speed forever, provoking people into passing them on the inside lane and then go to the police with the footage to get you into trouble.
Another favourite was waiting for a much faster car to nearly be on top of them, then swerve into their lane, forcing them to jam on the brakes and film the resulting beeping, flashing and swearing and report them for bullying and road rage.
People who do that sort of thing to other fellow human beings in my mind rank somewhere with cockroaches, paedophiles, rapists and politicians, but since they are the ones with video evidence I suggest doing nothing unless you hear otherwise and then seek good legal advice (i.e. not from an internet forum, I could be talking out of my arse here);).

Salvation

I dont doubt it is illegal per se but this is from the rules of the road ;

• You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
• You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
• Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

The last point is what was my scenario, Driver in Ovetaking lane had blocked it, So I proceeded to move to the left lane as it was then at that point clear and then moved forward about 200 metres or so and re entered the Right lane.

Basically I would love them to contact the law as from past experiences of the local gendarme is funny from reporting a totally drunk driver keeping a safe distance and calling the cops and what did they do just drove by... I love this country.

Crasp

Salvation wrote: »

I dont doubt it is illegal per se but this is from the rules of the road ;

• You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
• You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
• Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

The last point is what was my scenario, Driver in Ovetaking lane had blocked it, So I proceeded to move to the left lane as it was then at that point clear and then moved forward about 200 metres or so and re entered the Right lane.

Basically I would love them to contact the law as from past experiences of the local gendarme is funny from reporting a totally drunk driver keeping a safe distance and calling the cops and what did they do just drove by... I love this country.

unfortunately the "both lanes moving slowly" means overtaking on the left is not allowed on motorways. There is further clarification in modern editions of ROTR where it defines slow moving traffic as traffic travelling at less then 30kph. Essentially this means that passing someone on the left is only legal in points 1 and 2, and 3 if under 30kph.

johnthemull

I intend to use your last bullet point as the core of my defence when I am eventually in front of a judge for undertaking;


Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

This is almost the default situation anyway on Irish motorways!
Perhaps we should give the inside lane legal status as an overtaking lane?
I intend to defend myself........Will plead insanity if I have to...
Practically am insane over this problem anyway!
I love driving but man this country is such a downer to drive in.

Salvation

Interesting well anyway the overtaking lane should be used for its named purpose.

But alas idiots like these are ones that cause road rage accidents and massive delays, like trucks moving into the outside lane for a considerable amount of time.

I must also add I was behind that car for at least 20 mins trying to get past as were a large amount of others :eek::eek::eek::eek:

johnthemull

Is a bazooka!
Would love to resort to the use of that weapon instead of undertaking.
Would that be illegal too?

jimmyw

Well how would ya know what speed your are going, since with older tractors, there is no speedo, only a rev counter.Maybe the more modern ones do, I don't know.I can understand its not always practical to get a low loader to transport, but it would have been better to have went through the town though.Had the driver anything behind the tractor I wonder.

Crasp

I think it's also worth pointing out that indicated speed =/= actual speed. Speedometers differ in their accuracy, but it's usually around 10%. Thus a tractor that is capable of 50kph according to the owner is possibly only capable of 45kph ad would not be permissible on a motroway.

This seemd like a pint to mention when people are quoting such fine margins of speed in order to qualify for use of the motorway, for example even an indicated 56kph could be 48kph actual speed.

mfceiling

Going to a wedding party in wexford last august and i come up behind a long line of slow moving traffic...counted 21 vehicles in front of me and at the front of that a fcukin tractor.
Took about 10-12 kms for me to be the next one to pass him (bearing in mind there was a lot of hard shoulder where he could have pulled in to let the 21 in front of me in plus the large group behind me...but no)
I get along side him and blare the horn at him and point to the hard shoulder.
He opens the door and starts gesturing with one finger at me....the next couple of cars beeped him and he did the same.
I always hope a fcuker like this is in a hurry some day for a flight or something important and he gets stuck behind a príck like himself...