Doctor's note required after 1 day sick?

aligator_am

Hi all, my company has introduced a new policy since the start of this year which says that if you're off for 1 day sick then you must produce a doctor's cert.

I understand the logic of this to a degree as I know that people being off has a knock on effect, but from what I've heard before, if a company asks for a medical cert after 1 day sick they are obliged to pay the doctor's fees.

Am I wrong in thinking this? With most companies this wouldn't be an issue but I know the crowd I work with well and know they have to be watched like a hawk (they were caught several weeks after placing hidden cameras to spy on staff).

Any advice or info appreciated.

tenchi-fan

If I were you, on my first sick day I'd ring in and ask my employer "are you SURE you require a doctor's note. It's just that, I'm too sick to visit the doctor today and if I go tomorrow i will require time off work to get the cert"

If your employer insists on a GP cert, make sure your GP signs you off at least 2 days.

Jayo2011

If your employer insists on a sick note, have him pay for it. tell him you will visit the company doctor.

the relationship you have between you and your own doctor is private and confidential - none of your employers business.

BTW - I dont think a company can introduce new policies of this nature without your consent. If it is not a pre-condition of your employment (written in your contract) your boss cannot legally reprimand you for refusing to provide him with a doctors note.

Check with your union or phone SIPTU if you are not in one
Also try the Citizens Advice Bureau

They may be able to assist you further

Eoin

Jayo2011 wrote: »

BTW - I dont think a company can introduce new policies of this nature without your consent. If it is not a pre-condition of your employment (written in your contract) your boss cannot legally reprimand you for refusing to provide him with a doctors note.

I don't think that's the case. Employers can and do change their HR policies - there's a difference between working practices and what's in your contract (you're correct that the latter can't be changed without your consent).

From this page:

Contractual terms and work practices

Legally there is a distinction between the terms in your contract of employment and work practices.

Contractual terms include pay, hours of work, sick pay and pension scheme. All of your contractual terms may not be in the written statement of your terms and conditions of employment. Some of your contractual terms could be in your staff handbook, a pension scheme booklet or a collective agreement. You can read more about contractual terms in our document on contract of employment. Changes to these terms must be agreed between you and your employer.

Work practices can include breaks and rostering, for example. Details of these may also be in your staff handbook and your employer may change these work practices without your consent. It is considered reasonable for an employer to update work practices or processes to save money or increase efficiency.

My last company (very unionised) required a sick note at the employee's expense, if you were out on a Friday and the following Monday, even though that wasn't 3 consecutive working days.

Jayo2011

Eoin wrote: »

My last company (very unionised) required a sick note at the employee's expense, if you were out on a Friday and the following Monday, even though that wasn't 3 consecutive working days.

you could challenge this in the labour court, but that would be just making waves.

If an employer were to fire you for not providing a sick note - disregarding of HR policies, you would have a very strong court case, but the payouts are relatively small - in todays climate, you would be better off keeping your job

the law of the land supersedes company policies

Eoin

I don't think anyone mentioned being fired for not producing the note. The OP was asking if the company is allowed to insist upon a sick note being required, and that does indeed seem to to be the case.

Whatever disciplinary procedures the company follows after that is a different question altogether.

Jayo2011 wrote:

the law of the land supersedes company policies

Correct, but there doesn't seem to be anything here that contradicts the law of the land.

Jayo2011

seems to me the boss has you over a barrel

he can insist upon anything and get away with it because you are not unionised and he is not being challenged.

As things stand, if you refuse to produce the note, you will be disciplined (he cannot enforce his new policies otherwise). getting disciplined is usually the first step towards getting fired. if you get fired, you can take him to court (takes 2-3 years) and the payouts are something like 2 weeks wages for every year employed - not worth it in my opinion.


the use of "spy cams" without first informing staff of their whereabouts is as far as I am aware - not strictly legal. The union kicked up about the idea in my last job, so they weren't introduced. Any information gathered and used against staff on spy cams, if staff have not first been informed is not admissible in court.

in my opinion, as far as I can see, there are 3 choices:

1. Join a union, and have them represent your fellow workers (this will cost you a weekly subscription), but they will fight your corner

2. challenge your boss on new policies - in which case he is likely to find a reason to get rid of you.

3. put down your head and do as he says. times are tough, and there are plenty of people unemployed qualified enough to replace you - no matter what your profession is. he also knows this.

You must also consider that your boss is doing this for a reason. He, by your own admission has a bunch of unruly staff working for him where absenteeism is a problem, and he obviously has thought long and hard before deciding to introduce these new policies. Spy cams cost money, and bosses don't usually stick their hands in their pockets unless absolutely necessary

But as a compromise, you could try charging your boss for the sick note. Produce it as he requires, but don't let him read it unless he pays for it. Its your property unless he buys it from you. You could also request to see the company doctor which he will be charged for the visit and note, as opposed to your own doctor. (A company doctor will not treat you. he will only certify if you are medically fit to work or not).

But ring your boss first and ask what he wants you to do. Tell him you are going to get treated, and if he requires a work note, it'll cost him. If this happens every time somebody gets sick, he may reconsider his policy

Mrs OBumble

Being asked for a sick note after three days is totally normal, virtually everywhere does it, and it's necessary if you want to get sick pay out of Welfare (since employers aren't obliged to pay it).

Being asked for one on the first day is usually kept for workplaces where workers are taking the p*ss: it usually results on people taking longer off on average because doctors sign them off for longer than absolutely needed just in case. And bosses KNOW this. They only do it if they think that the cost is worth it.

Personally I'd advise heads-down-and-getting-on-with-it. Save the smart-assing charging for the cert for situations where it's needed.