Ignition Coil or Starter Motor problem?

Keith186

I have a '98 Ibiza Mk2 and there's a problem starting it.

When you turn the key to start you have to hold it for a couple of seconds before it starts. It normally fires up perfectly then.

Now it's getting worse, if I've driven the car and its heated up it wont start again if it's turned off.

It will start with a little push, drop the clutch and turn the ignition when moving slow. The push start is very light and wouldn't get it going if it had a flat battery so it might be something to do with the starter motor. Battery is perfect and not related.

Some of the Seat forums said it could be the ignition coil.

Could it be anything to do with a bad earth connection either?

Would anyone know what the problem is, I hope to get a mechanic to order the part in the day before I drop it up to him so I'm not without it.

Additional info: Wouldn't start on a few hot days in the summer even if driving it for first time that day. Started every single time in 0 to -14 degrees celcius in the last cold spell

I would really doubt it is the starter, sounds nothing like a dodgy starter.

Technoprisoner

sounds like a faulty crank sensor or a faulty coolant temp sensor.....id start with the coolant temp sensor as its the cheapest

Keith186

Technoprisoner wrote: »

sounds like a faulty crank sensor or a faulty coolant temp sensor.....id start with the coolant temp sensor as its the cheapest

The temp sensor in the dashboard is faulty these days alright, never goes to the middle unless in slow traffic/idle for ages.

I didn't think they would be connected though because I had the starting problem, albeit to a lesser extent, well before the temp sensor went.

Thanks

Nissan doctor

There are not many mechanics who would be happy just to fit a part that a customer supplies without diagnosing the problem themselves first.

martinr5232

Keith186 wrote: »

The temp sensor in the dashboard is faulty these days alright, never goes to the middle unless in slow traffic/idle for ages.

I didn't think they would be connected though because I had the starting problem, albeit to a lesser extent, well before the temp sensor went.

Thanks

Thats A temperature gauge the temp sensor sends the signal to the gauge and also to the engine ECU.

The fact the gauge is acting up aswell would point to a faulty sensor !!

Technoprisoner

i would imagine your car has a 4 pin temp sensor....2 wires run the gauge on your dash...the other 2 go to the ecu. when you start your car up first thing in the morning the temp sensor tells the ecu the car is cold..so ecu adds more fuel and makes the car rev higher to get it up to temp asap....once your car has warmed up the sensor lets the ecu know so it adjust's the fueling to suit....the fact you say when the car is warm it wont start again suggest that its a sensor fault and my money is on your coolant temp sensor.

edited to add....if there is too much fuel there on start up the car will not start ...it will be smoothered with fuel...this is why your car wont re start

Keith186

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There are not many mechanics who would be happy just to fit a part that a customer supplies without diagnosing the problem themselves first.

If I'm supplying it fair enough, I would see why they wouldn't be keen if I'm taking from their margin, sort of cheeky. But I'll get them to supply and fit it but if they say it's x instead of the temp sensor then fair enough I'll get them to do that to. Just want to speed it up if I ask them to get the part there that most likely needs doing.

Technoprisoner

temp sensor should cost you no more than 20-30 euros....easy enough to fit...so why not save yourself a few quid

Keith186

Technoprisoner wrote: »

temp sensor should cost you no more than 20-30 euros....easy enough to fit...so why not save yourself a few quid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yu_-nxKaDE

Watched that clip on changing it, I'll have to have a look at my own engine first before I chance it. If it's not too dear I'll probably use a mechanic.

Technoprisoner

very easy to replace...the temp sensor is usually located in the thermostat housing...if you dont know where this is follow the top rad house up to the engine....where it connects to will be the thremostat housing...the sensor just screws in here....when you are going to buy your new sensor you will need to know what colour the one on your car is and how many pins it has....but my guess is it will be 4 pin green

Nissan doctor

Keith186 wrote: »

If I'm supplying it fair enough, I would see why they wouldn't be keen if I'm taking from their margin, sort of cheeky. But I'll get them to supply and fit it but if they say it's x instead of the temp sensor then fair enough I'll get them to do that to. Just want to speed it up if I ask them to get the part there that most likely needs doing.

I didn't mean eating into margins. Its more a problem that is happening more and more these days. Car comes in running badly, customer gives you a part because a friend who 'knows about cars'/Internet forum/magazine said that this would fix it. The problem then inevitably turns out to be something else, the customer then usually has an issue with paying you more to diagnose/repair the actual fault.

I'm not saying for one moment that this would be how you would be, but it is why any decent mechanic would prefer to diagnose a fault properly before any parts get involved.

Technoprisoner

even decent mechanics get things wrong though

Keith186

Had a look on here and I don't see green one or indication of 4 or 2 pin??

Nissan doctor

Technoprisoner wrote: »

even decent mechanics get things wrong though

Mechanics can, yes, a decent mechanic wouldn't be decent if he was misdiagnosing a fairly basic starting/running issue.

Technoprisoner

dont mind micks garage...there are a number of coolant temp sensors that can be fitted to your car...the easiest way to distinguish between them is to know what colour it is and how many wires are going to it....have this info when going to the motor factors as they will ask you

Bruthal

Keith186 wrote: »

The temp sensor in the dashboard is faulty these days alright, never goes to the middle unless in slow traffic/idle for ages.

I didn't think they would be connected though because I had the starting problem, albeit to a lesser extent, well before the temp sensor went.

Thanks

The dash temp gauge not going to the middle of dial except when stopped or almost stopped is probably the coolant thermostat stuck open.

Keith186

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I didn't mean eating into margins. Its more a problem that is happening more and more these days. Car comes in running badly, customer gives you a part because a friend who 'knows about cars'/Internet forum/magazine said that this would fix it. The problem then inevitably turns out to be something else, the customer then usually has an issue with paying you more to diagnose/repair the actual fault.

I'm not saying for one moment that this would be how you would be, but it is why any decent mechanic would prefer to diagnose a fault properly before any parts get involved.

My local mechanic was supposed to fix it but let me down but he was going to change the ignition chamber I think. Just took the easy jobs! Seems to be too busy with basic services/easy money than other things these days.

Technoprisoner

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Mechanics can, yes, a decent mechanic wouldn't be decent if he was misdiagnosing a fairly basic starting/running issue.

ive seen it loads of times before. just because they are profesionals doesnt meen they get things wrong every now and again

Keith186

TP, thanks for all the replies!

Can I take the sensor out to check the colour without having to drain the coolant first do you know?

Nissan doctor

Keith186 wrote: »

TP, thanks for all the replies!

Can I take the sensor out to check the colour without having to drain the coolant first do you know?

You can see the colour of the sensor without removing anything.

Keith186

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You can see the colour of the sensor without removing anything.

Nice one.

There's still life in this car yet, drives real smooth otherwise!

Cartel Mike

Hi mate i'm having the same problem myself at the moment and mine is a worn starter motor ie i need a new one.
I suppose the only way to make sure is to turn the car off when she's warm.
If your 's is like mine she won't start again.
So get someone to turn the key while you klump the starter motor with something hard (i use a thin piece of wood), if she starts then you know its your starter motor and prob means that the solenoid is sticking inside it.

I've been doing this for a week now and its starting to get embarrasing!

Technoprisoner

any update?

Keith186

Technoprisoner wrote: »

any update?

Yes indeed,only finished up attempting a fix.

1) Tested starting it while hitting the starter motor. No result.

2) Got a green 4 pin temp sensor but it was the wrong one (should be black square 4 pin). While trying to get the car going to go back to the Seat dealer I discovered if you are really rough with the key you can get it going.

3) Brought back temp sensor and got an ignition switch. Stripped the casing around the steering column, ignition and part of speedometer to replace this part.

Could not get the old part out at all, it's plastic and sits at the bottom of the key chamber within a metal casing which goes around all the ignition and the steering column.

Part in question is a 5 or 6 pin female adapter that seems to 'unremovable' :mad:

It's like the metal casing was cast around it! Put it all back together for now.

Not even sure if the replacement part is the right one as its black instead of white plastic and there's a little ring jutting out of the side of it that I can't picture being on the part I was trying to take out.

Any ideas?

Technoprisoner

ill have a look at a ignition switch in work for you tomorrow see if i can figure out where you are going wrong

Keith186

It's been a while!

Figured out a way to wiggle the key to start car all the time but have the part so might as well fit it.

That's the part I got from official Seat dealer.

Can't get the bloody thing in, it's like the steering lock metal is cast around the ignition switch!

There's only one alan key nut to remove from the steering lock metal but it still won't budge.

Anyone know what to do?

It definitely will not slide out, tried pulling with a pliers and everything!

David09

I've had this problem before on similar vw polos.

Turn key noting... Silence... Second or two the starter kicks in and engine starts. This gets progressively worse until it won't start at all.

I fixed a few of them by wiring up a separate push button switch to operate the starter. I know, it's not the correct way of sorting it but it did the job.