Enda Kenny

Jayob10

Apologies for the bog standard generalities in this thread but here goes.

How the hell did this guy survive the heave against him last year? Was it a case of the FG old guard backing him in the hope of their loyalty being rewarded in what they saw as an inevitable term in government after the next election?

I am no supporter of any party in particular, but I would lean towards FG this time around. Labour are far too vague for my liking and I don't really agree with their links to the unions. FF won't get my vote one way or another.

However when I think of voting FG I am reminded i'm aiding this guy becoming our leader. He has done good work reuniting the party after a dreadful time, and he is certainly not the clown he is being made out to be. He is terrible when it comes to debate, expressing himself and dealing with the media but he is no clown.
But bottom line, I don't feel the man is a bona fide leader.

He will no doubt appoint a select few veteran opposition TD's (god knows he is one himself) to key ministerial positions who have shown him loyalty, at the expense of more talented electee's.

Bruton nailed his colours to the mast and has suffered the consequences in the short term, but I can't see how Noonan (even though Enda put him back in the spotlight), Varadkar and Co do not cringe when he opens his mouth.

FG are certainly handicapping themselves with Enda as leader and SURELY the majority of the party know this?

squonk

I would generally be an FG supporter but FG aren't guaranteed my No 1 by any means either, as an attempt to put this into perspective. I generally had time for Kenny and thought he would make a decent leader if he had the job given to him. I think he's a smart guy which is what we need at the moment. Where it all came undone for me was the, frankly, tantrum he threw over the VB debate on Friday. To be honest, he blew any confidence I had in him that he'd make a good taoiseach. If I was Bill Cullen, I'd be pointing at him saying 'You're Fired!'.

Dami

squonk wrote: »

Where it all came undone for me was the, frankly, tantrum he threw over the VB debate on Friday. To be honest, he blew any confidence I had in him that he'd make a good taoiseach. '.

What a way to represent our friends who have had to go abroad to find work. This to me is abdication of responsibility and yet another pathetic excuse to avoid critical examination...what a leader!!!!

Duke Leonal Felmet

I have no confidence in him. When I look at him I just see 'more of the same old'.

squonk

Dami wrote: »

What a way to represent our friends who have had to go abroad to find work. This to me is abdication of responsibility and yet another pathetic excuse to avoid critical examination...what a leader!!!!

Yeah, I agree. I found that particularly distasteful. Instead of doing the decent thing of standing up and saying, 'The empty chair is there because I won't go on the show', he ran with this spin. Unreal! Feck it, if he'd taken it on the chin and said 'Ok, leave the empty chair there so... big deal'. I'd have had more respect. why do politicians always feel it's important to cover something up in the name of some cause?

Right now I wish there was a 'None of the above' box on the ballot paper so that I could tick that instead.

Bottle_of_Smoke

How the hell did this guy survive the heave against him last year? Was it a case of the FG old guard backing him in the hope of their loyalty being rewarded in what they saw as an inevitable term in government after the next election?

Possibly was an element of this but at the same time I could easily imagine many of them just thought he will be a good taoiseach and after the hard work he has done for Fine Gael deserves a chance.

I've never liked him as a representative of Ireland. Always thought ''oh god I'll just be embarrassed to be Irish if he's what people see as our leader....''

This time around I don't care. I honestly think the best thing for this country right now is a FG/independents coalition. By independents I mean those who have stated they will put the national interest first rather than the local potholes, IE Luke Flanagan and Shane Ross types, and get lost Healy-Rae types.

So I'd rather that than a FG/Lab coalition. I reckon with that we'll just get the effects of FF again(albeit with less inherantly corrupt TDs)

Tenger

Enda Kenny is not charismatic or confidence building but he may well be the best choice for leading our country.

At this time we nees a taoiseach who can run the country. I don't want him to look good, sound good or be a dab hand at kissing babies. I want him/her to be a chairman of the board; delegate correctly, ensure the best people are at the relevant dept, listen to non-political advisors

An article in the Sindo (I know!) mentioned that his lack of political ego may make him the best choice. He doesn't try to grandstand just for the sake of it. He doesn't claim to be an expert but he will allow Bruton (for example) to be his appointed expert even though he tried to oust him.

The 14 years of FF and what went on before that has made us think that whoever 'wins' a TV debate is a better taoiseach! These debates are silly, its just the politicians arguing among themselves after begin prepped for days with stats and soundbites by their spin handlers.

Lets have each leader grilled individually by a panel of 3-5 commentators. then we may see what their actual answers/policies are.


Incidently am reading "Showtime: FF in Power", talk about throwing it all away with the 1997 and 2002 elections. Am actually sad at times reading it.

squonk

That Showtime is a great book. I read it when things weren't so bad (after it came out). I wouldn't want to read it now. FF really ddid destroy the country. I never even imagined just how bad things could get.

Dannyboy83

I really can't see what all the fuss is about Enda.
There is no need for debates, no need for election posters.

It boils down to one simple thing:
If you don't want to be strangled by tax increases over the next 4 years, vote for Fine Gael.
If you're happy to be taxed to the hilt, vote for somebody else.

That's it!!

danbohan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I really can't see what all the fuss is about Enda.
There is no need for debates, no need for election posters.

It boils down to one simple thing:
If you don't want to be strangled by tax increases over the next 4 years, vote for Fine Gael.
If you're happy to be taxed to the hilt, vote for somebody else.

That's it!!

do you really really believe that ? , if you do then happiness be upon you !

problemchimp

Tenger wrote: »

Enda Kenny is not charismatic or confidence building but he may well be the best choice for leading our country.

At this time we nees a taoiseach who can run the country. I don't want him to look good, sound good or be a dab hand at kissing babies. I want him/her to be a chairman of the board; delegate correctly, ensure the best people are at the relevant dept, listen to non-political advisors

An article in the Sindo (I know!) mentioned that his lack of political ego may make him the best choice. He doesn't try to grandstand just for the sake of it. He doesn't claim to be an expert but he will allow Bruton (for example) to be his appointed expert even though he tried to oust him.

The 14 years of FF and what went on before that has made us think that whoever 'wins' a TV debate is a better taoiseach! These debates are silly, its just the politicians arguing among themselves after begin prepped for days with stats and soundbites by their spin handlers.

Lets have each leader grilled individually by a panel of 3-5 commentators. then we may see what their actual answers/policies are.


Incidently am reading "Showtime: FF in Power", talk about throwing it all away with the 1997 and 2002 elections. Am actually sad at times reading it.

Sensible comment. The media must stop this 3/5 way debate crrap and stop banging on about opinion polls every day and concentrate on the real issues that will affect our lives. I also couldn't give a rats if Enda was made from timber once he does the job well! It's not a beauty contest and voters must realise this.

Dannyboy83

danbohan wrote: »

do you really really believe that ? , if you do then happiness be upon you !

Yes, I do.

Why do you disagree?

Bottle_of_Smoke

danbohan wrote: »

do you really really believe that ? , if you do then happiness be upon you !

I would agree with the caveat that I know taxes will still go up with a FG majority govt - just will be higher increases with other coalitions

Duke Leonal Felmet

I think FG say that 1/3 of long-run budget plan will be raised through taxes.

Pete_Cavan

I posted the following in another thread to do with Inda;

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Debates like this only serve to benefit those who shout populist nonsense for the gullible to lap up. "Winning" the debate does not equate to being the best person to lead the country, Bertie won the debates before the 2007 election and thats why FF got re-elected. They then proceeded to drive the economy over a cliff. I dont blame FG for not wanting to be involved. We need a competent government, not one who panders to fools.

Fair play to Enda for refusing to be dicated to by a ratings hungry media outlet. His refusal to play by their rules shows he is a man of conviction, unlike Martin and Gilmore who are only interested in soundbites.

With Noonan, Bruton, Reilly, Coveney, Varadkar, FG have a number of people who know what they are talking about. Enda may not be the most charismatic Taoiseach but he will certainly have the best ministers backing him up.

danbohan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Yes, I do.

Why do you disagree?

my dear chap , we could have circus clowns in government for all it matters , we are in deep financial sh1t , the estimates of the cost of this debt vary but we may be in around 6 billion + a year in debt servicing , we are hemorrhaging some of our potentially most productive people at about 1000 per week to emigration , companies , shops are closing everywhere you look where is the money going to come from ? , so no matter whos in power , prepare yourself for , property tax , water rates , and higher vat ,as well as any other stealth taxes and it still wont be enough so they will be back to pick whatever is left off the corpse of the irish worker in extra income tax , unless its sinn fein of course then we will be back to barter

Dannyboy83

danbohan wrote: »

my dear chap , we could have circus clowns in government for all it matters , we are in deep financial sh1t , the estimates of the cost of this debt vary but we may be in around 6 billion + a year in debt servicing , we are hemorrhaging some of our potentially most productive people at about 1000 per week to emigration , companies , shops are closing everywhere you look where is the money going to come from ? , so no matter whos in power , prepare yourself for , property tax , water rates , and higher vat ,as well as any other stealth taxes and it still wont be enough so they will be back to pick whatever is left off the corpse of the irish worker in extra income tax , unless its sinn fein of course then we will be back to barter

But it does matter who is in power.

In 1999, the public sector pay + pensions bill was €7.5 billion.
In 2010, it was €19.5 billion.

Virtually everything in the economy is back to 2002 levels or worse - except spending!

Huge amounts of the money we are haemorrhaging are due to unsustainable current spending.
€50 billion of the €85 billion bailout is reserved to prop up current spending.

Fine Gael have said they will tackle this.
Labour have said the Croke Park Agreement is staying in place.
Which outcome do you believe is going to lead to strangulation via taxation?

Right now, 6/7 of the working population are terrified to spend money, because they're afraid they will be taxed to death to prop up this unsustainable and grossly unfair situation.

There is a relatively clear path to getting this country out of intensive care, not back to a healthy condition, but out of intensive care:
Tackle the public sector pay & pensions bill, get the tax situation under control -> domestic economy rebounds & black economy collapses -> Social Welfare spend collapses and tax intake goes up!





The reason we are a deep pit of sh1t, is not because there is no solution - it is because there is and has been no political will to implement the solution.

danbohan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

But it does matter who is in power.

In 1999, the public sector pay + pensions bill was €7.5 billion.
In 2010, it was €19.5 billion.

Virtually everything in the economy is back to 2002 levels or worse - except spending!

Huge amounts of the money we are haemorrhaging are due to unsustainable current spending.
€50 billion of the €85 billion bailout is reserved to prop up current spending.

Fine Gael have said they will tackle this.
Labour have said the Croke Park Agreement is staying in place.
Which outcome do you believe is going to lead to strangulation via taxation?

Right now, 6/7 of the working population are terrified to spend money, because they're afraid they will be taxed to death to prop up this unsustainable and grossly unfair situation.

There is a relatively clear path to getting this country out of intensive care, not back to a healthy condition, but out of intensive care:
Tackle the public sector pay & pensions bill, get the tax situation under control -> domestic economy rebounds & black economy collapses -> Social Welfare spend collapses and tax intake goes up!





The reason we are a deep pit of sh1t, is not because there is no solution - it is because there is and has been no political will to implement the solution.

i agree with a lot of what you have written

however , fine gael have no chance of overall majority certainly not with enda at the helm anyway , they will enter a coalition with labour , reform of the public service will be anemic and so..................

wee truck big driver

f.g claim that they wil create 20,000 jobs ( god knows from where ) then in the next breath they say they will get rid of 10,000 public servants strange

wee truck big driver

personally i think enda would make a good taoiseach and the only problem he has is that a dublin based media would rather see bruton as leader. to this end i would say that its up to the people to decide who they want as leader not the media.as most people know it usually the bullsh1ters who can talk the talk but cant walk the walk. i would rather have somebody who could actually run the country than somebody who could make excuses every time something went wrong

Mr. Presentable

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I really can't see what all the fuss is about Enda.
There is no need for debates, no need for election posters.

It boils down to one simple thing:
If you don't want to be strangled by tax increases over the next 4 years, vote for Fine Gael.
If you're happy to be taxed to the hilt, vote for somebody else.

That's it!!

The same Enda Kenny who told the n****r joke a couple of years back? The one that was reported all over Europe?

wee truck big driver

at the minute f.f are the only party make realistic promises in the run up to election. i couldnt care less what labour promise wouldnt vote for them rying if my life depended on it. but if f.g dont stop to make up lick ass policies every day i wil have to vote f.f

3ndahalfof6

wee truck big driver wrote: »

f.g claim that they wil create 20,000 jobs ( god knows from where ) then in the next breath they say they will get rid of 10,000 public servants strange

I think its 30,000 jobs they are getting rid of,

Lab say they will cut 18,000

Mr Kenny might be one of them.

Ulysses Gaze

wee truck big driver wrote: »

at the minute f.f are the only party make realistic promises in the run up to election. i couldnt care less what labour promise wouldnt vote for them rying if my life depended on it. but if f.g dont stop to make up lick ass policies every day i wil have to vote f.f

FF and realistic? Two words that shouldn't be put together in the same sentence.

Pete_Cavan

wee truck big driver wrote: »

f.g claim that they wil create 20,000 jobs ( god knows from where ) then in the next breath they say they will get rid of 10,000 public servants strange

They want to get rid of 30,000 public servants because these are jobs which cost the government money (because they pay them). There are thousands of middle management and admin staff in the public service. FG want to remove these from the payroll because they cost us money but do very little in return.

FG want to invest money in infrastructure that will allow people to create jobs. NewEra plans to invest in water, energy and broadband, which every business in the country needs, will allow existing businesses to expand and new businesses to start up.

I favour FGs stimulus over that offered by the other parties because FG want to spend money building infrastructure that will allow jobs to be created in other sectors. Other parties stimulus packages are based on building schools and hospitals. These types of infrastructure do not create sustainable jobs because they are only construction jobs which rely on state funding which cannot last (the teachers and nurses jobs generally exist already).

sheesh

give the title of the thread is about enda I'll keep it to that.

Enda has had some sucess in politics he has rebuilt the party and that is a good sign i think (I hope) it means that he can organise a team and get things done.

unfortunately he is bad in debates I don't find him very convincing when he talks. This is not good, a leader of a country should be to speak with conviction.

What really worries me is that we have just finished with a Taoiseach who was regarded as honest intelligent but not so great at public speaking who was regarded as a safe pair of hands when he first started and ended quiet badly.

there is a very faint hope that if/when Enda is made taoiseach that he grows into the role and becomes a good communicator. he has been waiting for this moment for a long time

I remember seeing tony blair before he was elected PM and thinking his smile was too wide and he looked very insincere but as soon as he was elected all that seem to change.

OK so Blair ended badly but he was pretty good for 1.5 to 2 terms.

Does anyone think that Enda will grow into the role?

Duke Leonal Felmet

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

They want to get rid of 30,000 public servants because these are jobs which cost the government money (because they pay them). There are thousands of middle management and admin staff in the public service. FG want to remove these from the payroll because they cost us money but do very little in return.

FG want to invest money in infrastructure that will allow people to create jobs. NewEra plans to invest in water, energy and broadband, which every business in the country needs, will allow existing businesses to expand and new businesses to start up.

I favour FGs stimulus over that offered by the other parties because FG want to spend money building infrastructure that will allow jobs to be created in other sectors. Other parties stimulus packages are based on building schools and hospitals. These types of infrastructure do not create sustainable jobs because they are only construction jobs which rely on state funding which cannot last (the teachers and nurses jobs generally exist already).

Very good points there. Any old stimulus will not do. It has to be focused on areas for maximising job creation in the long run. Building schools and hospitals does not achieve that goal.

Ulysses Gaze

sheesh wrote: »

give the title of the thread is about enda I'll keep it to that.

Enda has had some sucess in politics he has rebuilt the party and that is a good sign i think (I hope) it means that he can organise a team and get things done.

unfortunately he is bad in debates I don't find him very convincing when he talks. This is not good, a leader of a country should be to speak with conviction.

What really worries me is that we have just finished with a Taoiseach who was regarded as honest intelligent but not so great at public speaking who was regarded as a safe pair of hands when he first started and ended quiet badly.

there is a very faint hope that if/when Enda is made taoiseach that he grows into the role and becomes a good communicator. he has been waiting for this moment for a long time

I remember seeing tony blair before he was elected PM and thinking his smile was too wide and he looked very insincere but as soon as he was elected all that seem to change.

OK so Blair ended badly but he was pretty good for 1.5 to 2 terms.

Does anyone think that Enda will grow into the role?

Like Ahern here, Blair has been a disaster for the UK. Fine for his first term but like Ahern tried to buy elections by buying off the PS here. The fact is that the Tories are going to have to go to war with the PS to try and claw Britain back to a semblance of balancing the books. 1 in 5 under 25 year olds are unemployed here and while that's not at Spain levels, 40%, it is still very high.

Enough with the Cult of Personality leaders! They get you very little in the long-run.

Kenny may not be a 'magnetic' personality, but he's not as bad a communicator as people think. He managed to take on Ahern in the last election and did a pretty good job. People are writing him off too soon.

Also I would agree with his point on a 5 leader debate. Why not?

wee truck big driver

of the 30,000 who or going to get union negoiated redundancies (large and expensive) and considerable pensions how many will be coming near the end of there time and wil be delighted to be able to jump with the adde bonus of a big payoff. why not sack any of them who arent pulling there weight

Ash.J.Williams

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Like Ahern here, Blair has been a disaster for the UK. Fine for his first term but like Ahern tried to buy elections by buying off the PS here. The fact is that the Tories are going to have to go to war with the PS to try and claw Britain back to a semblance of balancing the books. 1 in 5 under 25 year olds are unemployed here and while that's not at Spain levels, 40%, it is still very high.

Enough with the Cult of Personality leaders! They get you very little in the long-run.

Kenny may not be a 'magnetic' personality, but he's not as bad a communicator as people think. He managed to take on Ahern in the last election and did a pretty good job. People are writing him off too soon.

Also I would agree with his point on a 5 leader debate. Why not?

Yup! a pretty good job is exactly what's required now....he lost that election didn't he??

The guy got my respect after he fought off the heave, but then he seemed to vanish...is that what we want in a leader?? His party see that the election is theirs and only Enda getting some media exposure can f** it up! Is that a quality becoming of a leader???

Bottle_of_Smoke

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Like Ahern here, Blair has been a disaster for the UK. Fine for his first term but like Ahern tried to buy elections by buying off the PS here. The fact is that the Tories are going to have to go to war with the PS to try and claw Britain back to a semblance of balancing the books. 1 in 5 under 25 year olds are unemployed here and while that's not at Spain levels, 40%, it is still very high.

Enough with the Cult of Personality leaders! They get you very little in the long-run.

Kenny may not be a 'magnetic' personality, but he's not as bad a communicator as people think. He managed to take on Ahern in the last election and did a pretty good job. People are writing him off too soon.

Also I would agree with his point on a 5 leader debate. Why not?

Agree totally and the Blair comparisons are scarily apt. Only thing I'm against is a 5-way debate. Will be car crash television. As the cliche goes will be a very very poor noise to signal set up.

I'm moving towards thinking even small debates between them are pointless, albeit better. Why not have 3/4 respected panelists grill each leader individually instead?

joolsveer

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Why not have 3/4 respected panelists grill each leader individually instead?

I think you would be hard pressed to find such a panel with members who did not carry political baggage.

Duke Leonal Felmet

So, will this be an actual debate or a joint press conference, which seems to be the norm?

Ulysses Gaze

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Yup! a pretty good job is exactly what's required now....he lost that election didn't he??

Yes FG didn't win, but he rebuilt the party after it was decimated in 2002.

Secondly the media, particularly that disgrace of a national broadcaster we have, were so far buried up Ahern's arse that FF couldn't really lose that election. The Dobson interview was laughable. It won Ahern a lot of sympathy though. And The Sindo also went to bat for Ahern big time.

I'd take a pretty good job by Kenny over

a) Spin, spoof and soundbites by Ahern

b) Dogmatic stubborness by Cowen or God help us

c) The man of 100 reports before he can think about making a decision Steve Silvermint.