Any Ford mechanics/storemen here?

Aidan_M_M

Guys and dolls , I'm looking for info about Ford cylinder head compatibility with blocks . Trying to figure out if a 1.6 Zetec SE/Sigma head from a Fiesta/Puma will fit on 1.4 block , for rallying use .
TIA.

Design_Dude

You can compare the two head gaskets in a decent auto factors and see if they mate up.

Esel

^ Good advice!

Surely the cylinder bores on the 1.6 engine would be larger (and therefore the valve chambers on the head larger too)?

Design_Dude

Aye, just check the bore of your cylinders (piston diameter) for a start.
Wouldn't recommend swapping those heads unless you really know what your doing, as compression and many other things will be affected!

kona

You will probably need new pistons as these will have to be cut to allow the valves to clear them, this will effect the CR.
I wouldnt worry about the bore to a certain extent, just make sure the centres line up. There wont be much difference in bore size between a 1400 and 1600 CC youd make this CC from stroking it more than you would from boring it IMO. Only problem would be it would have issues at high RPM.
You may have issues with the timing belt ETC.

Would you not get a better return modifying the 1400 head, and changing the cams? Also is it within the rules of the class your in to do this?

From reading about such conversions, they are rarely bolt on and away ya go, they usually take time and cost $$ with no guarantee of reliability. Then you have the fact that you may need bigger injectors / fuel pump / Throttle Bodies, exhaust manifolds and a remap.

Gary ITR

Are you trying to increase the CR to run cams? It's a cost effective way to do it if it works but for ease I'd be going with oversize pistons, you'll probably see more gains tbh

Plug

All the zetec heads are stamped down were the plugs go. They have 1.25 or 1.4 or 1.6 stamped on them. So they must all be different i'd say.

Aidan_M_M

Esel wrote: »

^ Good advice!

Surely the cylinder bores on the 1.6 engine would be larger (and therefore the valve chambers on the head larger too)?

The bores are larger , 3mm , which gives only 1.5mm on the radius. As it's 16v, with inclined valves , they get closer to the centre of bore with cam lift , so thats not an issue.

Design_Dude wrote: »

Aye, just check the bore of your cylinders (piston diameter) for a start.
Wouldn't recommend swapping those heads unless you really know what your doing, as compression and many other things will be affected!

I know , I have built lots of competiton engines . In fact , with the likely larger combustion chamber in the head , I'll lose some compression , but some head skimming , and proper forged pistons will solve that.

kona wrote: »

You will probably need new pistons as these will have to be cut to allow the valves to clear them, this will effect the CR.
I wouldnt worry about the bore to a certain extent, just make sure the centres line up. There wont be much difference in bore size between a 1400 and 1600 CC youd make this CC from stroking it more than you would from boring it IMO. Only problem would be it would have issues at high RPM.
You may have issues with the timing belt ETC.

Would you not get a better return modifying the 1400 head, and changing the cams? Also is it within the rules of the class your in to do this?

From reading about such conversions, they are rarely bolt on and away ya go, they usually take time and cost $$ with no guarantee of reliability. Then you have the fact that you may need bigger injectors / fuel pump / Throttle Bodies, exhaust manifolds and a remap.

I already have throttle bodies , Piper rally cams , a Motec ECU , ported/polished/3 angle valve seats and re-profiled valves in my 1400cc head , and a 4-2-1exhaust manifold. The rules allow all mods apart from pressure charging/nitrous , once I stay below 1450cc .
Timing belt not an isue.
Same intake and exhaust manifolds on the 1.4 and 1.6 .
I'll be throwing out the OE Pistons , for lightweight , forged ,racing ones.

Onkle wrote: »

Are you trying to increase the CR to run cams? It's a cost effective way to do it if it works but for ease I'd be going with oversize pistons, you'll probably see more gains tbh

I'm not trying to increase CC , changing the head will have norelevance to that . It's just that some of the 1.6's have much larger valves , a nicer valve train design , and larger ports as standard than my 1400 . So it'd work out a lot cheaper to start with a 1600 head , than spend ££££ extra on my 1400 .

Aidan_M_M

Plug wrote: »

All the zetec heads are stamped down were the plugs go. They have 1.25 or 1.4 or 1.6 stamped on them. So they must all be different i'd say.

yep , spot on , I know they are different , but as outlined , I'd hope to utilise some of those differences. This kind of malarkey was very common years ago , a 1300 head on a 1600 Crossflow Escort raised compression for example... and we found that with the old Fiat twincam 8v motors , that a 1600 Regata head , on an 1800 Block , with 2.0 cams , made for a stonker , with all standard parts.

Gary ITR

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

I'm not trying to increase CC , changing the head will have norelevance to that . It's just that some of the 1.6's have much larger valves , a nicer valve train design , and larger ports as standard than my 1400 . So it'd work out a lot cheaper to start with a 1600 head , than spend ££££ extra on my 1400 .

I was asking about the compression ratio rather than the CC

Sounds like a good idea if you can get it to run

cormie

User Ford Jedi is a Ford specialist although he mentioned to me that he never managed to get his password back for that account after the site was hacked a few months ago.

Here's a thread I started recommending him also: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57005518

Gary ITR

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

yep , spot on , I know they are different , but as outlined , I'd hope to utilise some of those differences. This kind of malarkey was very common years ago , a 1300 head on a 1600 Crossflow Escort raised compression for example... and we found that with the old Fiat twincam 8v motors , that a 1600 Regata head , on an 1800 Block , with 2.0 cams , made for a stonker , with all standard parts.

My MK2 Golf had a 2ltr bottom end on a 1.8 head. I know of a B16 Honda engine being built with a B18 head. In my experience this kind of carry on scares the bejebus out of mechanics though :pac:

kona

Sounds like a good project. What TB are you using? Jenvey? or are you going to run Motorbike ones?
What sort of power do you expect? 200bhp?

Aidan_M_M

cormie wrote: »

User Ford Jedi is a Ford specialist although he mentioned to me that he never managed to get his password back for that account after the site was hacked a few months ago.

Here's a thread I started recommending him also: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57005518

much obliged.:)

Onkle wrote: »

My MK2 Golf had a 2ltr bottom end on a 1.8 head. I know of a B16 Honda engine being built with a B18 head. In my experience this kind of carry on scares the bejebus out of mechanics though :pac:

Golf fan/tuner/owner/driver myself , so I bet that was a 3a or 6a block , under a KR head! nice.

kona wrote: »

Sounds like a good project. What TB are you using? Jenvey? or are you going to run Motorbike ones?
What sort of power do you expect? 200bhp?

Using GSR600 TBs , they fit will , and a mate in the UK runs them on his race Fiesta, got more torque than when he had Jenveys . Also a helluva lot cheaper! I made the inlet mani myself for feck all.
Power wise , not a hope of 200 , but a torquey 160-170 with with a fairly flatpowerband would be plenty for me , a good pull from 3000 is more beneficial to me in forestry rallying than 20 bhpmore , but at 6500rpm.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

kona

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

much obliged.:)


Golf fan/tuner/owner/driver myself , so I bet that was a 3a or 6a block , under a KR head! nice.


Using GSR600 TBs , they fit will , and a mate in the UK runs them on his race Fiesta, got more torque than when he had Jenveys . Also a helluva lot cheaper! I made the inlet mani myself for feck all.
Power wise , not a hope of 200 , but a torquey 160-170 with with a fairly flatpowerband would be plenty for me , a good pull from 3000 is more beneficial to me in forestry rallying than 20 bhpmore , but at 6500rpm.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

What Diameter are those TB? Im in the process of converting from carbs to Injection, worked it out that I need something in the region of 2 33mm TBs, do they use TPS or MAP or MAF?, cant use 4 as there are only two intake ports(first pain in the ass out of a number of others)
I find out and out power a bit of a bragging right rather than useable in real life too, nobody drives around at 6k rpm all day, otherwise wed be rebuilding every thousand miles.
Ive a article about a golf being converted from weber carb to EFI, if you want to have a look at it.

Aidan_M_M

kona wrote: »

What Diameter are those TB? Im in the process of converting from carbs to Injection, worked it out that I need something in the region of 2 33mm TBs, do they use TPS or MAP or MAF?, cant use 4 as there are only two intake ports(first pain in the ass out of a number of others)
I find out and out power a bit of a bragging right rather than useable in real life too, nobody drives around at 6k rpm all day, otherwise wed be rebuilding every thousand miles.
Ive a article about a golf being converted from weber carb to EFI, if you want to have a look at it.

Umm..Butterfly is at least 35mm IIRC , and more likely 38mm , seeing as the intake of the 'body is 40mm, and the exit , to the headside , is 38 also . They use a TPS on the end of the rail, 3 wire naturally , which I've linked to the Ford TPS wiring . What are you converting from Carb to FI ?

I had to space mine out a wee bit , linkage still working perfectly.