Rescue dog has epilepsy - Advice needed

NoDice

Hey guys.

Back again needing yet more advice, unfortunately. I'm looking for your honest opinions on this if you don't mind.

I rescued a GSD back in November, mostly because my first dog needed a friend and we wanted to get a GSD.

Things were perfect; he IS perfect. However, after two weeks of introducing him to what I hoped would be his "forever home", we found out he had epilepsy.

He was having between 10-20 fits per month; very bad ones. We have now put him on Mysoline which is meant to stabilise him and prevent the fits but after highering his dosage (as advised by vet), he has had another 4 fits in less than 24 hours.

We have been convincing ourselves that we are the best owners for him; we love him, he is part of our little family now and I'd be heartbroken to have to part with him.

Our dilemma is we both work full time. We are renting a house which is slowly but surely getting destroyed. We have to give him these tablets without fail twice a day at the same time or it could be fatal. I've never been so stressed. We can't walk him or let him get too excited as it leads to a seizure. This in turn means we can't walk our first dog, who is now getting anxious, as he will get jealous.

Should we give him to someone who will care better for him? I understand this will be very difficult but we're beginning to think we've taken on more than we can realistically handle; he surely needs someone to be there 24 hours a day with him?

What would you do??

daenerysstormborn3

To be honest I would give him to a rescue as I know I wouldn't be able to handle him. That may seem selfish but I wouldn't know the first thing about it and I would rather him be given to someone with experience and knowledge to look after him.

If you're working full time you more than likely do not have the time to provide proper care for a dog with this type of illness. Even if you were to have someone else look after him during the day it would take quite a bit of time to find someone you trust and someone capable to look after him at the same level as you.

NoDice

We got him from a shelter and if we do give him away, I'd prefer to hold onto him until a new owner comes along instead of taking him back to the shelter. He wasn't coping well there before we took him (I know this will sound silly but he was bullied by the other dogs and he is very timid for a GSD).

We have been doing our absolute best for him. We have seizure-proofed the house though we lost the tv today. We feed him the best of food, spend all our time with him and when we are at work (we have alternating shifts) he has free roam of the house with our other dog bar the sitting room which is the only room he can do harm to himself in.

So you think we should give him away? I'll be heart broken but I'm so worried what we're doing isn't enough..

Thanks for your response and honesty. I really appreciate it. We're both so worried as you can understand.

Ado86

I think you should go back to your vet.
Has the epilepsy been definitively diagnosed ?
There are many other causes of seizures in dogs, and true epilepsy is rare.
A blood test can be performed to determine that the level of drug required to suppress seizures is being achieved (Serum trough level). The amount of drug required varies between animals. Also some dogs are refractory to the active ingredient in mysoline, he may require more than one type of drug to control his seizures. Sometimes when a 2nd drug is added to the treatment regime, it may help decrease the seizures.
But if the dog is having 10-20 seizures per month, this is far too many, and will be impacting upon his quality of life.
Further treatment and diagnostics are required to help both you and your dog.

Hope things start to improve for you and him!

daenerysstormborn3

Apologies, I thought your only option was to give him to a shelter. If you feel you'd be able to cope until they find a suitable new owner then you should hold onto him, it might make the transition as easy as possible instead of him going from shelter to home to shelter to home. Don't berate yourself over this, it's a situation a lot of people never imagine themselves being in and a lot of people would just look for a quick and easy solution.

And that doesn't sound silly about him being timid. I have a great dane that most people describe of tender despite his size.

I am sure you are doing everything you can for him and I don't doubt that judging from what you've posted.

If I was in your situation I would find him a new home. Somewhere that the owner(s) will be at home during the day. I may be wrong but I would assume a dog with epilepsy would have a reduced life span so you want to give him to have the best years possible.

I know it'll be heartbreaking but you obviously have his best interest at heart and you need to put his needs first.

I just think that someone working full time wouldn't be able to give a dog with these needs the appropriate amount of care.

Depending on the dog it can take anything up to 6 months to perfect the dosage of meds or epilepsy.

I have heard of epiphen and epilease being used for treatment.

As I'm sure you know, in some dogs after they fit they may become vicious or may begin to run around like crazy. If this was to happen you when outside would you be able to cope? I know you say as it stands you don't bring him out for walks but it's not really sustainable.

TooManyDogs

+1 for going back to the vets. It doesn't sound like the medication is working, and there are other anti-seizure medications available. Most dogs with epilepsy I know of have a nearly normal life which would mean you could adopt him no problem.

Bog Bunny

Ado86 wrote: »

I think you should go back to your vet.
Has the epilepsy been definitively diagnosed ?
There are many other causes of seizures in dogs, and true epilepsy is rare.
A blood test can be performed to determine that the level of drug required to suppress seizures is being achieved (Serum trough level). The amount of drug required varies between animals. Also some dogs are refractory to the active ingredient in mysoline, he may require more than one type of drug to control his seizures. Sometimes when a 2nd drug is added to the treatment regime, it may help decrease the seizures.
But if the dog is having 10-20 seizures per month, this is far too many, and will be impacting upon his quality of life.
Further treatment and diagnostics are required to help both you and your dog.

Hope things start to improve for you and him!

I am so sorry for this poor GSD. Unfortunately Idiosyncratic Epilepsy is just that: a known cause cannot be found. In order to find a cause the dog would have to be put through a diagnostic wringer to rule out all other causes, including an MRI scan of the brain. So most people treat symptomatically and see what works and what doesn't.

Brain tumours can cause epilepsy. Food allergies can cause it, vaccinations, chemicals, thyroid problems, any metabolic disease....

When do these fits occur? Do they happen when he is resting or when he is especially stressed/agitated?
The former would point to idiosyncratic e., the latter to a metabolic illness. Adrenalin produced in stress situation is said to actually keep the brain functioning normally. The crossed-wires and thunderstorms in the brain happen more often in the deep sleep phase when the brain is closing down partially.

There are a number of different drugs on the market for epilepsy so yes, I'd go back to the vet and inquire. There is tons of information about canine epilepsy online as well. With every seizure a number of brain cells die, no wonder the dog's mental disposition is affected by now. Also, very often dogs who are affected by this dreadful disease tend to be shy or at least hyper-alert to perceived dangers and changes. Their vision is often affected, their hearing might be so acute that theslightest sound is magnified.

As an aside -
Epilepsy in varied forms and manifestations has been around for millions of years, perhaps there is / was an evolutionary reason for this illness not to disappear. Usually an affected animal would not live to reproductive age because it would either succumb to it or be killed by its pack. So a faulty gene would quickly disappear again from the gene pool. But some have managed to produce offspring, so the gene(s) were kept in circulation over all these years.

An affected animal which is more alert than others may have been useful as a sentry in a wolf pack.

There is a herb that may be able to help this unfortunate animal. I think in the UK it can now be got on prescription to help the sufferes from Parkinsons or other neurlogocial disease complexes.

NoDice

We've only started the medication and are gradually building it up to a higher dosage as prescribed by our vet, he told me it was normal enough that he had a fit as we had been expecting one before we put him on the medication - it stalled the fit by 6 days.

Heartbroken reading the replies but that's why I posted here. I needed to know we weren't being mad or selfish by giving him away. He's been to the vet a couple of times now - I'm one of those people who takes my pets to the vet when they so much as sneeze . I've done nothing but read online about the illness and I've a few books on the subject too since I've found out.

We've decided he would be better off with people who would be able to look after him during the day. I've a feeling it will be very hard to find the poor guy a new home.

I've put an ad up here in the rehoming thread anyway and I'm going to let the shelter know what we've been thinking and ask them to put up an ad on their site on the agreement that we can hold onto him until we find a suitable home for him. He definitely wouldn't be able to cope up in the shelter again.

Thanks again for all your replies and information. x

daenerysstormborn3

NoDice you might be pleasantly surprised by the amount of decent people willing to take him on and care for him. If it was me, I'd want someone with previous experience with an epileptic dog.

Good luck.

puppieperson

Hi No dice I am an animal lover and would go hungry in order to get the best treatment for any of my dogs but your dog is in distress and passing him onto someone else will not relieve the distress. The kindest thing you can do for this poor creature is to euthanize him that way he is at peace and not being handed around form shelter to home to gods knows where.
In the climate we live in good people are handing in healthy dogs to shelters very few people will take on a dog with illness i know this i volunteer in a shelter. the kindest thing you can do is put him to sleep if you pass him on again you will worry about him and it will prey on your . Do the right thing......

daenerysstormborn3

Euthanise a 5 year old dog because it has an illness which is treatable? Would you say the same about a 5 year old child?

Bog Bunny

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Euthanise a 5 year old dog because it has an illness which is treatable? Would you say the same about a 5 year old child?

It's not that simple, unfortunately. Epilepsy is not always treatable, at best it can be contained and the frequency of seizures reduced to a tolerable level..
I think OP has not explored all the avenues regarding best treatment protocol for her dog, maybe she should get a 2nd or even 3rd opinion.

puppieperson

I didn't mean to offend Pixi bean but sometimes the hardest thing to do is the right thing. My springer (also a rescue dog ) has several seizures a year they are very distressing on me and my dog i monitior and treat her and avoid any stressful situation for her but I know when they increase i will be forced to make a decision and passing her to someone else is not it. that is just passing the buck. Would yo u give your sick mother to someone else cos you had to work full time . get real

NoDice

I've been to two different vets. I've been to the current one about 6 times in the space of two months. He has been on two different types of medication since we've had him and we have been told to persevere with the mysoline until we have reached the highest dosage and if that doesn't work he will need a scan.

On top of this, he was taken by the shelter from a traveller family. He had been confined either in a tiny area or on a rope outdoors. Both vets we've taken him to, the shelter volunteers and our dog trainer (she's also our dog walker when we are working during the day) all believe he has been through years of abuse and he had never been indoors before we took him. He was afriad of our house, it took him weeks to get used to simple things like tables and doors. He panics in the car and panics if he is confined in any way.

We have since toilet trained him, trained him on walks on and off the leash. we have him used to daily grooming including having his teeth brushed. He is missing most teeth due to the fits also.

I believe I've done as much as I possibly can. We can't warrant a scan until we find the meds aren't working. I love him so much so I can't even think about having him put down tbh. I'm hoping there will be a family that have dealt with this before and who have the time during the day to care for him.

We're in our mid twenties and as someone else has said I'd starve myself to make sure the dogs have the best of everything - and they do. But at this stage we're getting no sleep, we're exhausted, I've called in sick to spend time with Charlie after fits and I'm on a final warning because of it. I don't want to give him away but we can't afford it. We can't even take him to the vet because of the car issue, the vet has to come to us which involves call out fees. And our vet has left us off so many times and has given us so much support.

Both vets also don't want to put Charlie on a second med until they've figured if the Mysoline is doing it's job or not. He said if we expected the fit weeks ago and it's only come now that could be a good thing though it's still going to be a waiting game.

Again please don't get me wrong about the money situation. Both dogs have the best of everything. As I said I pay for a dog walker during the day when we need it, they're on the best of food and I take them to the vet if I think something is slightly wrong. I've cut out a lot of things I'd usually spend on just to afford what we've needed so far for Charlie. i just don't think we can do it for much longer.

NoDice

puppieperson wrote: »

I didn't mean to offend Pixi bean but sometimes the hardest thing to do is the right thing. My springer (also a rescue dog ) has several seizures a year they are very distressing on me and my dog i monitior and treat her and avoid any stressful situation for her but I know when they increase i will be forced to make a decision and passing her to someone else is not it. that is just passing the buck. Would yo u give your sick mother to someone else cos you had to work full time . get real

I'm not trying to pass the buck at all. I'm trying to find someone who has the experience and who has the time. I have proofed my house with baby gates to restrict him going into certain rooms that will harm him. I've been up nights on end caring from him and I've been warned to stay away from him having the fits in case he bites but both my other half and I have kept that thought aside and placed something behind his head and talked him through the fit. His last one (he gets maybe five or six in the space of about 12 hours, this happens every week. Maybe two weeks if we keep him calm, stop him playing, we don't walk him etc) started Friday. They last between 10 - 20 minutes each at a time and can go on through the night.

I've been monitoring him and I've a log book to take down the times and frequencies. the vet comes out to do tests etc. I'm certainly not passing the buck down to the simple fact I don't have the time. I'm also not just telling the shelter to simply take him back cause I can't handle him anymore. I want to look after him until a suitable family comes along, if they come along.

Christ like I'm doing as much as I possibly can at the moment.

I haven't even thought about putting him down because this may be treatable. We just can't afford to keep this up. It's putting a strain on so many things and my heart is broken for Charlie cause he's such a sweetheart.

I came here looking for advice. Not to be told I'm selfish for not euthanising him or for passing the buck. I can't explain everything as I'm trying to keep posts short. Please don't criticise me for not trying every avenue. As I've said i've had him since October. Everything I've tried so far has needed time and perseverance and isn't as simple as one tablet and bam he's perfect the next day. As you know. If this doesn't work I'll try something else again.

NoDice

I'm sorry for sounding so aggressive in the last post. I'm upset and tired and I took the last couple of posts as insulting and the euthanasia post came as a shock.

Thanks for all the info and advice and honesty again. Sorry again.

I've been told before I should have him put down but as you said, the hardest thing to do is the right thing. I'm hoping either the mysoline or next treatment works. I've been convincing myself I could handle this.

I highly doubt there will be someone who will have the time etc to give Charlie a home. Also, I've a huge feeling he won't cope well moving again. That's another thing I haven't wanted to admit. He get stressed very easily and is afriad of new people and new surroundings.

Do you think if this med doesn't work, say he has a scan and goes on more meds etc and they don't work, should I seriously consider having him put down?? That is something I've never in my life had to deal with and even the thought has me crying now and I wouldn't consider myself to be immature or selfish when it comes to animals, I'm just in two minds.

Just to clarify, I'm not actually considering this option at the moment and never even allowed myself to consider it until I freaked out in my last post after it was suggested. I guess it's something I should start thinking of? Sorry for that again... Any info much appreciated.

puppieperson

i take no offence at your agression but you have to read your own posts and see you are thinking about how you feel and not really thinking about the dog.. A dog from the tinkers is aged from cruelty neglect hunger mange and many diseases yo u have had charlie for 4 months and offered him kindness but he is ill and the real kindness is to take him out of his misery if he didnt have fits the tinkers would have kept him and he would have been tied up till he died of hunger or was thrown into a dog fight. he may be 5 years old but he has lived 10 years or more.
the stress you are putting your life under is not right and you wont believe how kind this final act for Charlie is, then you take comfort in knowing for a few months that dog knew some kindness and you gave it to him. i love dogs more then people but sometimes you have to let go. read the poem under the thread a sad day for max......

puppieperson

I see you are located in Cork go to Gliabbey Veterinary hospital they will tell you the truth. my dog had cancer treatment there i paid 3000 euro for it and they told me she might live 2 months or 12 . she lived for 3 months and she was happy for 3 months then the cancer grew back and i had to do the right thing thats how much i loved my dog and i had her for 14 years. i am so sorry for your plight really i am but the dog is not happy and neither are you .

youcrazyjesus!

If a 2nd and 3rd opinion from recommended vets doesn't bring a resolution the most humane thing to do is put him down. You will have done your best for him and you will be doing the decent thing by putting him down.

suziwalsh

Sorry....havent read through all posts as very late and just saw the title. I have an epileptic dog and have just rehomed another dog that was in foster care with epilepsy.....please feel free to pm if I can offer any help or recommend a vet. If you are in Dublin I can definately recommend an excellent vet.

I would highly advise for you to get the dog checked again as medication may not be correct. I have worked with a few dogs with epilepsy and a couple that fitted due to food intollerance and other issues.

tesslab

NoDice just wanted to share my experience with you. My last dog had epilepsy from the age of 1 and a half. As with Charlie there was a lot of fits. Completely understand how terrifying it is to see them like that.
Vet put her on mysoline but it did take 6 - 8 months playing around with the dosage to get it right. We were very lucky as we had someone at home 24/7. We could spot the signs bout 30 mins before she took the fits and used to lay her down in a safe place and just sit with her til it was over.
Eventually with the meds the fits lessened to about 2 - 3 a year. Usually happened when my parents went on hols and she was stressed without my dad.
Anyway Tess lived to the ripe age of 15 and led a very normal life.
I just wanted you to know that there can be hope. Keep strong and best of luck to Charlie. I'm sure if you decide to rehome him you will make sure he will get the best family for him.
Such a difficult decision for you. You are doing all you can for him where as a lot of people would have walked away. He's a very lucky boy!

Bog Bunny

NoDice wrote: »

I'm not trying to pass the buck at all. I'm trying to find someone who has the experience and who has the time. I have proofed my house with baby gates to restrict him going into certain rooms that will harm him. I've been up nights on end caring from him and I've been warned to stay away from him having the fits in case he bites but both my other half and I have kept that thought aside and placed something behind his head and talked him through the fit. His last one (he gets maybe five or six in the space of about 12 hours, this happens every week. Maybe two weeks if we keep him calm, stop him playing, we don't walk him etc) started Friday. They last between 10 - 20 minutes each at a time and can go on through the night.

When your dog crashes it may shorten the time he is 'out' when you take a cooling pad (the gel stuff in a bag you can put in the freezer) and place it on his back, in the region of the loin. Hold it with your hand and move it up and down that area a bit. The cold sensation to the spine in that area is said to help the nerves to sort themselves out faster and get back to normal function. (not a scientifically correct explanation, more an image; something to do with constricting blood vessels and pathways)

Try not to restrict the thrashing of his legs or head/neck, just make sure that he cannot get caught in furniture or injure himself. As horrible as it looks, the kinetic energy that is released in a fit needs to go somewhere and leave the body.

A seizure depletes the body's resources quickly and he becomes hyperglycaemic. Do you notice that he is very greedy and snaps at food when he has come around? Offer him high-carb food, like bread with butter and honey to get the glucose levels up quickly.

After his seizure he is most likely extremely restless. Again, he needs to get rid of the negative energy. Take him for a walk, either walk him on your property or even just up and down the road (then of course only on-lead). This again might help the brain's crossed wires to rearrange themselves to normal function.

If an individual seizure lasts 10 - 20 minutes then this is almost a status epilepticus. That's much more severe than a fit that lasts 1-3 minutes and does far more long-term damage to the brain.

Apart from froth, do you see blood mixed in with it? Blood vessels in the lung can burst from the sheer pressure of the cramping muscles in his body. In the end, he can drown in his own blood. That's horrible to watch and even more horrible for the poor creature.

Sorry to be so explicit here, but this is something you ought to be aware off when thinking about his quality of life and what he has to go through.

You never mentioned how your other dog reacts to him when he goes into a seizure.

NoDice

Hi Bogbunny, thanks for that info. I wasn't aware about the hyperglycaemia, I've been told that he will be hungry after the fits so we give him another feed afterwards and that he snaps for food because of his time on the streets - it makes him an opportunistic eater. Thanks for your advice, I'll be sure to give him his bread and honey next time!

My other dog is almost an alarm for us when he's about to have a fit if he's in a different room. She jumps up and starts a low whine. If we try to stop her she'll start barking. She usually sits a couple of feet away from him during the fit and lies down and when he gets up again she runs over to him. We usually try to keep her in a different room in case she gets too close.

On your point about the blood in the froth.. Yes I see this during the bigger, longer fits. He accidentally knocks out his teeth though and often bites through his tongue. I'll look into what you're talking about here though as that is worrying and it wasn't mentioned to me by anyone I've spoken to yet.

We can't walk him out front after fits unfortunately as he usually has a couple in the space of a few hours. He stumbles a lot as his legs are very weak after the fit and his vision can be impaired temporarily after the bigger fits so we help guide him around the back garden until he is happy to lie down and eat something.

We have towels, blankets and cushions at hand for when he has the fits and know not to restrict him. We find his fits don't last as long if we gently rub his hind quarters and talk him through it. I will definitely get a cooling pad.

Thank you.

Bog Bunny

NoDice wrote: »

Hi Bogbunny, thanks for that info. I wasn't aware about the hyperglycaemia,

Ooops, just saw my mistake - I meant hypoglycaemic,when blood sugars go low, of course. But I guess you understood.

You other dog is a natural! Often other dogs become aggressive when they see a dog fit, it's very alien to them and it frightens them. You are very lucky to have such an 'alarm'dog!
Just goes to show that dogs do have a sixth sense, and also that the brain of a pre-seizure dog sends out some vibes / waves / electric currents which humans cannot sense. Pity we are so underdeveloped in that respect.